Posted on 09/29/2009 9:31:08 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
The Vatican has lashed out at criticism over its handling of its paedophilia crisis by saying the Catholic church was "busy cleaning its own house" and that the problems with clerical sex abuse in other churches were as big, if not bigger.
In a defiant and provocative statement, issued following a meeting of the UN human rights council in Geneva, the Holy See said the majority of Catholic clergy who committed such acts were not paedophiles but homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males.
The statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's permanent observer to the UN, defended its record by claiming that "available research" showed that only 1.5%-5% of Catholic clergy were involved in child sex abuse.
He also quoted statistics from the Christian Scientist Monitor newspaper to show that most US churches being hit by child sex abuse allegations were Protestant and that sexual abuse within Jewish communities was common.
He added that sexual abuse was far more likely to be committed by family members, babysitters, friends, relatives or neighbours, and male children were quite often guilty of sexual molestation of other children.
The statement said that rather than paedophilia, it would "be more correct" to speak of ephebophilia, a homosexual attraction to adolescent males.
"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17."
The statement concluded: "As the Catholic church has been busy cleaning its own house, it would be good if other institutions and authorities, where the major part of abuses are reported, could do the same and inform the media about it."
The Holy See launched its counter–attack after an international representative of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, Keith Porteous Wood
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
The statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican's permanent observer to the UN, defended its record by claiming that "available research" showed that only 1.5%-5% of Catholic clergy were involved in child sex abuse.
He also quoted statistics from the Christian Scientist Monitor newspaper to show that most US churches being hit by child sex abuse allegations were Protestant and that sexual abuse within Jewish communities was common....
....The Holy See launched its counter–attack after an international representative of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, Keith Porteous Wood, accused it of covering up child abuse and being in breach of several articles under the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
at least you don’t find instances of sex abuse in islam.....ahem.....
this is read meat for the anti-media.
Doesn’t matter the left only finds sexual abuse to be a Christianity problem...evidenced by Roman Polansky and other religions being free to rape/abuse
quite true. Also, I think I remember hearing that the majority of abusers are married men. That would not be catholic priests.
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. - Mat 7:5
I am well aware of the abuses in the Catholic Church, thank you. And there is not ONE that was good or that I will defend; ALL of them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
That being said, the hypocrites were the OTHER freaks who were absolutely trashing the ENTIRE church, while ignoring what was going on in ALL other denominations, and much more than in the catholic church, not to mention in the locker rooms, classrooms, boy scouts, and worst of all, families. Don’t forget to pull the forest out of your eye before pointing out my plank.
I don't know why he has to attack Jews and Protestants but since Protestants are more than 75% of the Christian population in America including almost all of the 13% of the population that is black I hope that they account for more problems than the Catholics and I really wonder if the problem is "common" in the Jewish community.
Is it really appropriate for those foreign people in Italy to be launching such an attack against American Jews and Protestants?
Unless you count everyone who isn't Catholic or Jewish as Protestant, "more than 75%" is a significant exaggeration of the number of Protestants in the United States. Here's a breakdown I found at wikipedia:
========================================
Main religious preferences of Americans United States religiosity
Religion Percent
Christianity 78.4%
Unaffiliated 16.1%
Judaism 1.7%
Buddhism 0.7%
Islam 0.6%
Hinduism 0.4%
Other 1.2%
According to a 2007 survey,[9] the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:
Christianity: (78.4%)
Protestantism (51.3%)
Roman Catholicism (23.9%)
Mormon (1.7%)
Jehovah's Witness (0.7%)
Orthodox Church (0.6%)
other Christian (0.3%)
Unaffiliated, including atheist or agnostic (16.1%)
Judaism (1.7%)
Buddhist (0.7%)
Islam (0.6%)
Hinduism (0.4%)
other (1.2%)
=================================
Thus, Protestants comprise about half the population, not "more than 75%".
sitetest
Read it again.
“I don’t know why he has to attack Jews and Protestants but since Protestants are more than 75% of the Christian population in America including almost all of the 13% of the population that is black I hope that they account for more problems than the Catholics and I really wonder if the problem is “common” in the Jewish community.
Is it really appropriate for those foreign people in Italy to be launching such an attack against American Jews and Protestants?”
“but since Protestants are more than 75% of the Christian population”
I see your qualification upon re-reading your post.
Nonetheless, it's actually about two-thirds, not “more than 75%.”
sitetest
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:38
This attack had nothing to do with theology, it was just foreigners lashing out at American Jews and Protestants and for no reason.
Closer to 70% but the point is exactly the same, it is natural for Protestants to have higher numbers, although I don’t know that they do have such high homosexual molestation numbers, but I would really be surprised if he wasn’t lying about it being “common” in the Jewish community.
It just sounds like another nasty European attack against America.
No offense but that sounds like an excuse my teenager would give me.
“Closer to 70% but the point is exactly the same,...”
Actually, no. I was being generous when I said that Protestants comprised two-thirds of American Christians.
Protestants make up 51.3% of the 78.4% of the population that is Christian. 51.3% is 65.4% of the entire Christian population, which is a little less than two-thirds, not “closer to 70%.”
Of course, what makes this further problematic is that many folks who are Christian but not Catholic, Orthodox, Mormon or Jehovah's Witness don't consider themselves Protestant. "Protestantism," I've learned over the years here at FR, is a tough thing to define. I've met LUTHERANS, for pete's sake, who claim not to be Protestants. And more than my fair share of Anglicans/Episcopalians. And Baptists. And various evangelicals.
But for arguments' sake, I'll go with the numbers presented above.
Thus, the point isn't quite the same.
As well, I've seen research results that show that Protestant clergy sexually offend generally at a higher rate than that of Catholic priests.
“It just sounds like another nasty European attack against America.”
It's more of a Catholic defense against all comers.
We Catholics often see ourselves first as followers of Christ, in His Body the Church, and second as Americans or Europeans or whatever.
sitetest
Numbers vary from source to source, this attack against America was introduced by the foreign Vatican in an argument that they are having with the UN, the people at the Vatican did not need to attack American Jews and Protestants to handle their UN problem.
I said that I would be surprised if Protestants are so highly represented in homosexual molestation.
Americans don’t have to silently endure attacks by foreign groups.
“Numbers vary from source to source,...”
Yes, but if anything, the wiki article is generous regarding the numbers of “Protestants” in the USA. As the article states, and as every study I've seen indicates, the number of folks who identify as Christians is falling fairly quickly, while the number of folks who identify as Catholic is about holding steady. The data that I quote are already two years old, and even if accurate then, there has probably been a further decline in the number of Protestants just in that period.
In fact, within the same article, 2008 aggregate numbers are quoted, showing Christian affiliation down to 76%. From 1990 to 2008, Christian self-identification fell from 86% to 76%. As recently as 20 years ago, Protestants DID comprise 70% or more (perhaps even 75%) of Christians in the US. But nowhere close today. “More than 75%” of Christians is a significant exaggeration (which, by the way, was the only point I made in my first and second posts).
“I said that I would be surprised if Protestants are so highly represented in homosexual molestation.”
There is very little systematic research that I've seen concerning homosexual acts by Protestant clergy. My best guess is that it varies widely from denomination to denomination. I imagine there are far more homosexual abusers in denominations that are very accepting of homosexual clergy than in denominations that still reject the same. Just a guess on my part.
I have seen direct comparisons between Catholics and Protestants of overall sexual impropriety. The few studies I've seen suggest that Protestant (and Jewish) clergy have a significantly higher overall rate of sexual misconduct (much of it, though, legal conduct).
The article cites American studies of clergy abuse as I suspect that there just isn't much research of clergy abuse in other places. Especially abuse committed by non-Catholics. I think that there are some rocks that folks just don't want to lift to see what's living underneath them in other places.
Thus, it's likely that the citation of American studies has to do with availability of data, not an attack on America.
Finally, to reiterate, most Catholics don't view folks in the Vatican as “foreigners.” They are fellow Catholics, members of Christ's Church, His Body. And indeed, the folks in the Vatican come from all over the world, not just Europe. In fact, a fair number are... American.
sitetest
Oh, well that makes it okay then.
Disgusting.
Sorry you couldn't find it.
It really takes a sick mind to turn that logo into something dirty.
It’s a Rorschach test, and the pervert sees the child facing away from the point of view.
You put your words in their mouth and then complain about what they did not say.
Yeah, that is disgusting.
I think the Vatican would like to point this out because everyone else is AFRAID to.
Child/sex abuse is RAMPANT in islam, but it is a “protected” religion. You will NOT see the median/Hollywood trying to expose it the way you will see them trying to expose it in Catholicism.
Maybe it is “juvenile”, but it IS valid.
I’m confused, their not pedophiles but homosexuals attracted to sex with adolescent males? OK I guess its pre-pubescent versus adolescent. Its all sick, is all wrong, the church denomination, gender, pre-pubery, post-puberty etc is irrelevant. It saddens me that “spirtual leaders” are pointing their fingers saying look they are just as bad or worse. “Only 1.5-5% of Catholic Clergy were involved in child sex abuse” The hearts and souls of our children are not percentages or statistics. How many children have not received Christ or have turned away from God because of the abuses that happened to them at “church” whether Catholic, Baptist, Luthern whatever denomination. The Church of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ should and must be first and formost a sanctuary for the children in our society
Shame on any church that doesn’t look the world in the eye when this happens in their church and take full responsibility and accountability. Pointing fingers, statistics and presenting statistics is for politicans not the Church of Jesus Christ our Priest, our King, our Savior!
I just realized some of you like this Vatican statement and are not bothered by it at all.
As an American it does bug me to see American Jews and Protestants dragged into this thing between the UN and the Vatican.
Saying that child abuse is “common” in American Jewish Synagogues is really even more disgusting.
That's not the question.
You spat:
Oh, well that makes it okay then.At what point did the Vatican official say anything like "makes it okay?"
Take your time.
Yes, dear.
Your come-on is not welcome. Stop embarrassing yourself.
So, only American Catholics may comment???
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Also, do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.
It was a Rorschach test. It really takes a sick mind to turn two words - "yes dear" - into something dirty.
Call it an informed, common-sense individual interpretation.
Oh, wait, the RCC disapproves of that.
Perhaps you'd like to venture an explanation of what the point of bringing this up was if not to deflect blame?
Take your time.
From now on I’ll play it safe and assume other posters are ignorant and unthinking - no more “You know” benefit of the doubt.
I would not want to lie.
I didn’t say it was dirty. I said it was a come-on.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Wishful thinking?
If "Dear" can provoke such a reaction, I can only imagine what happens when some gray-haired restaurant waitress calls you "Honey."
Quite the opposite, actually: abject revulsion.
Discuss the issues, not each other.
At it's apex, the USCCB's John Jay Study reported that 4% of all (US) priests serving from 1950 until 2002 were accused of abuse. The John Jay study puts real numbers on that percentage:
The study said that 4,392 clergymen—almost all priests—were accused of abusing 10,667 people, with 75 percent of the incidents taking place between 1960 and 1984. During the same time frame there were 109,694 priests, it said........68 percent of the allegations were made against priests ordained between 1950 and 1979, while priests ordained after 1979 accounted for 10.7 percent of the allegations.
For the entire 52-year period "the problem was indeed widespread and affected more than 95 percent of the dioceses and approximately 60 percent of religious communities," said the study.
“Accused of abuse” and “guilty of abuse” aren’t the same thing, at least, not in America.
Perhaps it’s different in Geneva...at least where Catholics are concerned.
To use the technical, Catholic term: bingo.
Thanks for the perspective in absolute numbers. Even if those numbers will be debated, that’s a whole lot of abuse cases...only for the US - never mind the rest of the world. The ‘Boss’ really needs to get on top of things. NOW!
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