Posted on 10/11/2009 6:56:59 AM PDT by OneVike
special thanks to hanna548 for the artwork
There is a disturbing trend that has taken hold of the modern day Christian community, and it is my opinion that this trend is causing a schism as big as the one that was addressed at the Council of Nicea over the Trinity. Now this is not a debate for those who have no faith in Christ, for what accord has Christ with Belial? No, this is strictly a debate for those who profess Christ as their Lord and Savior. Unfortunately, those who attempt to address the problem are usually labeled as rabble-rousers who only wish to spread discontent within the ranks of Christendom. This trend I speak of, is the compromising of the Word with the idea of evolution known as theistic evolution or Old Earth Creationism. I say “compromise”, because in the 150 years since Darwin offered his theory of evolution, the only side in the argument that has offered to compromise its position has been the Christian side. I have yet to see the evolutionary camp temper it's teachings to include God anywhere in the equation of creation.
If I am wrong, then I challenge someone to prove to me that the godless Darwinists have ever compromised their position on evolution. If anything they have stiffened their resolve to convert all mankind to their atheistic system that excludes a Creator other than random chance. The evolutionary thinkers are not struggling to find a way to harmonize the events of Genesis 1-11 with the words of Darwin or Stephen J. Gould. They are beating the drum of "science" versus "religion" so loud that they cannot hear the evidence that some Christian apologists would try to get them to consider. Too often, those who present any evidence that makes a case for the Biblical account of creation are even ridiculed by Christians who believe in theistic evolution. In many cases they are ridiculed in the same way the ungodly Darwinists ridicule them. Well allow me to present a few reasons why I do not have enough faith to believe in the OEC's theistic evolutionary theory.
As I said, my article is not directed at anyone who does not claim to be a Christian, so I will not be addressing the scientific or geological particulars of evolution or of space and time. This is strictly a debate between Christians who claim to be Biblical “Young Earth Creationists”, and Christians who hold to the views of “Old Earth Creationism”, “Theistic evolutionism”, or the “Gap Theory”. However, before I present my reasons why I believe these beliefs are all wrong, I must distinguish the difference between "Macro-Evolution", and "Micro- Evolution".
Micro-evolution is not really evolution at all, it is just the simple variation within a species. What scientists describe as the prominence of genes being displayed within that species. This is what allows a family to have one child with blond hair and blue eyes, while the other has brown hair and brown eyes. The children have not evolved (they are still human), they simply differ in their dominant genes. In like manner, Christian micro-evolutionists believe that all dogs in the world today have evolved within the species from two dogs Noah brought onto the Ark, and all canines would be similar to every other animal of that species existing on the planet today.
Macro-evolution on the other hand refers to major evolutionary changes over time, the origin of new types of organisms from previously existing, but different, ancestral types. Examples of this would be fish descending from an invertebrate animal, or whales descending from a land mammal. The evolutionary concept demands these bizarre changes, and this is the bases for which Darwin's theory has been propagated.
Now back to my reasons for disagreeing with theistic evolutionists. I find it sad that any Christian who would claim to hold to the truths of the Scriptures, could then turn around and say that they question the most basic and foundational truths revealed in the Scriptures such as: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Genesis 1:1. In doing so, they are not merely questioning the curious mechanics and unique events of the creation week, but they are debating the very words and message of that week. Furthermore, to deny God created everything through Christ in a normal 6-day period is to question the very character and nature of God. It attributes to Him the evil, wasteful, chaotic, random, purposeless, death-filled processes of evolutionary "creation", that would make Him (God) the very Author and Sustainer of all that the theory of evolution demands. In my opinion those who attribute to the power of Satan any miracles which Christ performed, or generally those works which are the result of the Holy Spirit, are in danger of committing Blasphemy. Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10
Another disturbing fact about having a belief in theistic evolution, would be the denial of the doctrine of Original Sin. Think about it, if suffering, death, and extinction are inevitable components of the evolutionary process, then it only follows that the doctrine of Original Sin makes no sense. Humans would had to have evolved into a world that was already filled with suffering and other forms of imperfection, such as hurricanes, floods, pain, and suffering. Ultimately, death would not be a punishment for sin because death would had to have always been a part of the cycle of life wich would have been needed for evolution to exist on earth. Taken to its inevitable conclusion, if humans are not responsible for suffering and evil, but instead death is simply a natural process rather than a punishment, what need is there for atonement and redemption? After all if man is not responsible for sin as the Bible says, then the Bible is wrong, and if the Bible is wrong why live by it's precepts?
Now I need to address the debate over the Hebrew word “Yom” or יום. Those who disagree with the literal translation of the Bible that claims God created everything in six literal earth days, use the argument that “yom” is sometimes used to describe an age or an era. I offer six reasons theistic evolutionists and OEC's are wrong in their interpretation of the record of Genesis.
1.) Moses repeats, “And there was evening and there was morning, one day” Genesis 1:5, Genesis 1:8, Genesis 1:13, Genesis 1:19, Genesis 1:23, Genesis 1:31.
2.) In the context of a 24 hour day, Moses again defines what he means by ”yom”, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy” Exodus 20:11; Exodus 31:17.
3.) The Hebrew word for day, or “yom”, is used 1480 times in the Old Testament, and it is translated by some different 50 words. It can mean an indefinite time, but it is not used as an age of millions or billions of years. When "yom" is used with a numerical adjective, it always refers to a literal 24 hour day.
4.) The Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, the “Septuagint”, uses "hemera" or ἡμέρα, which normally means a 24 hour day such as, “And He was in the wilderness forty days”, not forty ages or eras. Mark 1:13.
5.) Furthermore, if Moses meant a period of long eons or ages, then the translators should have used the Greek word, "aion" or αἰών. which is the word Christ used when he gave His followers their marching orders for the great commission in Matthew12:20
“teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen
"Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her." And Jesus answered and said to them, "Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. But from the beginning of the creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH SO THEN THEY ARE NO LONGER TWO, BUT ONE FLESH. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
So, from this exchange you can see that Jesus obviously agreed with Moses in his interpretation of the creation story, thus rejecting macro evolution and the Old Earth theory. Jesus specifically said, “from the beginning He made them”. He did not say, “In the beginning he started the process”. Jesus believed there was a definite beginning and that Moses did not write an allegorical story because the Israelites were to primitive to understand the truth. So if Jesus said so, why would anyone want to disagree with Him?
Also, those of you who are proponents of theistic evolution are walking a very thin line, because you also must deny the very existence of the Trinity.
”For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” John 5:7
”In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Genesis 1:1
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him” 1 Corinthians 8:6
”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.” Colossians 1:15-17
“You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth.” Psalm 104:30
”And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” Genesis 1:2.
The Scriptures, and an understanding of the texts, should be enough to prove to Christians that the Bible is right. When it comes to the debate with the godless Darwinists, we Christians are living in great times. Every day we find more evidence that proves the Scriptures are historically, archeologically, and scientifically correct. Now is not the time for us Christians to compromise our faith in God, for ultimately that is how we will be judged. Do you have enough faith in God to believe He is who He says He is, and that he can do what He said He would do? The faith of a mustard seed is all you need to throw a mountain into the sea, could you imagine the trembling of the Godless if we Christians had such faith?
I pray that those who have ears to hear will hear His voice and call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen
c. something you don’t understand...
Like for instance Man being created in God’s image a fully functioniing adult. If God can do that, then certainly he can create a world that looks older than it is.
It’s not “willfull disregard of the evidence”.
It’s interpreting it in a way that some can not or will not acknowledge.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2359966/posts?page=106#106
I never said He couldn't.
Methinks another reading of the thread is in order, my FRiend.
Thanks. I appreciate the calm and reasoned reply.
It is much less sweeping a statement than the one I originally questioned you on, and considerably more accurate (IMO) as a result.
Really? You ask that with a straight face?
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Sure did. And got a calm and reasoned (presumably also with a straight face) reply (thanks again metmom).
Chuckling. It’s called conversation. You might give it a try sometime.
Methinks another reading of the thread is in order, my FRiend.
I never said you said He couldn't...I merely pointed out to you the possibility you failed to mention...
so if anyone needs to re-read anything...
that would be YOU.
Is it that you’re embarassed you have no source and just make things up as you go along...
or embarassed that you ARE your source?
Either way, I do understand your embarassment.
Sure did. And got a calm and reasoned (presumably also with a straight face) reply (thanks again metmom).
Chuckling. It’s called conversation. You might give it a try sometime.
No kidding...REALLY dmz???
Uhhh yeah dmz...I’m aware of #170, in fact I referenced it to another poster.
metmom has infinitely more patience than I do, so what’s your point?
(She always does, and yet she’s still regularly attacked anyway.)
Frankly, I’ve seen post #170 posted on here, explained and re-explained on news/religion.etc. in about these exact same words for several YEARS now, thus my question to you.
It amazes me that on FR of all places, there’s still resistance to the idea that liberals hijack science to advance their ideology.
metmom has infinitely more patience than I do, so what’s your point?
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No point. You jumped into the middle of a calm and reasoned discussion with your typical sarcasm. I don’t mind, it’s worth a chuckle or two.
Actually, the desire to not get banned overrides my desire to say what I'm thinking many times.
I don't know walking away from the keyboard is patience or not.
But thanks for the vote of confidence. I do try.
“No point”.
Well, you’ve got honesty going for you! ;)
I am not embarrassed. Please do no make personal comments about that which you have no comprehension. You are not a god.
Do you have any other explanations?
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt...
the way I see it when someone asks you for your source and you just keep sourcing yourself...
speaking of...
“you are not a god”...
what then is your explanation?
Do you, after all, have any idea whatsoever why something of perfect design has to necessarily be uncorruptable?
I’ve never heard of such an idea.
You do understand that the 'serpent' was not an actual snake, but was a representation of what was 'within' mankind?
Take any human, and tell them they cannot do something. See what happens.
Oh. I understand now, I think? Sort of like how the 'days' in Genesis are not really our 24 hour days. Thank you.
So, when God had the snake slither away forever to eat dust, God was throwing evil out from 'within' man?
Thanks for the response. Sorry for the formation of the statement.
It was a terrible way to put it.
I think the serpent was meant to refer to the Bible principle that God gave free will to man, and with it he chose to disobey God.
I should not have stated it as if it was a 'given' you were ignorant of, or that I insisted you believe.
So, when God had the snake slither away forever to eat dust, God was throwing evil out from 'within' man?
I don't believe God had the snake slither away forever to eat dust, and if God was throwing evil out from 'within' man, it didn't work.
Let me now ask, was the snake to blame for Eve's decision? Adam's?
Did God blame the snake? Is that why he told the snake he would be under the heel of man?
He was certainly ticked off at the serpent!
14: And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
An honest evo, is that what you are calling me?
Surely my honesty must be a cover for reproductive advantage, as that is all that is motivating us evos. Even though we don’t know it.
Soulless great apes can be honest
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Stop. You’re making me blush.
Why do I feel better about being called a soulless great ape than an evo-fascist atheist?
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