OUTSTANDING!!!
Posted on 10/14/2009 10:26:11 AM PDT by jacknhoo
Controversy Erupts as Catholic Bishop Asks Pro-Gay Bishop Not to Enter His Diocese
By Peter J. Smith
MARQUETTE, Michigan, October 13, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A public controversy has erupted between two bishops of the Catholic Church in the United States, with one of the youngest bishops in the country publicly taking on one of his own colleagues in an effort to defend the Church's teachings on homosexuality and other issues.
Marquette Bishop Alexander K. Sample, 49-years-old and one of the youngest US Catholic bishops, recently banned Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, 79, a retired auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Detroit and notorious promoter of homosexuality, contraception, and homosexual and women's ordination, from entering and speaking in his diocese, citing his pastoral duty to defend the "faith and morals" of the Catholic Church. The controversial bishop was set to address the group Marquette Citizens for Peace and Justice.
"As the Bishop of the Diocese of Marquette, I am the chief shepherd and teacher of the Catholic faithful of the Upper Peninsula entrusted to my pastoral care," said Bishop Sample in a public statement. "As such I am charged with the grave responsibility to keep clearly before my people the teachings of the Catholic Church on matters of faith and morals."
"Given Bishop Gumbleton's very public position on certain important matters of Catholic teaching, specifically with regard to homosexuality and the ordination of women to the priesthood, it was my judgment that his presence in Marquette would not be helpful to me in fulfilling my responsibility."
The elder prelate, who once held the title of Vicar General of Detroit, counts himself as a member of radical heterodox groups such as New Ways Ministry and Call to Action, both of which have been censured by the Vatican for moral and doctrinal reasons, especially over the promotion of homosexual behavior as a valid normative lifestyle. Members of Call to Action are also excommunicated in one US diocese and the group agitates for contraception, abortion, divorce and remarriage, and change in the governmental structure of the Church.
Gumbleton's career as an active and well-known "liberal" prelate came to an abrupt end in 2006, when the Vatican denied his request to continue on as Auxiliary Bishop to Detroit Cardinal Adam Maida upon reaching the mandatory retirement age of 75.
For his part, Sample made clear that banning Gumbleton had nothing to do with either Marquette Citizens for Peace and Justice or the topic of Gumbleton's speech, which concerned the matter of peace and justice.
Instead, the deciding factor, said Sample, was the potential for Gumbleton to mislead members of his diocese on Church teachings through discussions and interactions either tangential or unrelated to the topic of Gumbleton's speech.
"I was concerned about his well-known and public stature and position on these issues and my inability to keep these matters from coming up in discussion," added Sample. "In order that no one becomes confused, everyone under my pastoral care must receive clear teaching on these important doctrines."
Sample stated that he regretted the public controversy, but made clear that Gumbleton had put him in that position by neglecting "common courtesy" between bishops, which requires them to ask permission before entering the diocese of another bishop. Instead, Gumbleton had informed Sample of his intention to speak at the event organized by Marquette Citizens for Peace and Justice on October 9, after the upcoming event was made public.
However, this is not the first time that Gumbleton has been banned from a diocese in which informing the local ordinary of his presence was an afterthought.
In 2007, bishop Gerald F. Kicanas banned Gumbleton from entering his jurisdiction after he discovered that Call to Action had arranged for him to speak at Catholic churches and schools in the diocese.
For pro-life and pro-family leaders - both inside and outside the Catholic Church - Sample's stand against Gumbleton is being interpreted as a sign of hope and a reminder of a generational changing of the guard within the Catholic Church.
Gumbleton is almost 39 years senior to Sample, and represents an aging and shrinking demographic of US bishops whose heterodox opinions were formed in seminaries during the 1950s and who were active in ministry during the cultural upheaval of the 1960s and 70s.
Sample, on the other hand, represents a younger class of bishops formed during the papacy of John Paul II that have trended toward taking up the challenge of defending orthodox teachings on morals, doctrine, and liturgy.
"The bishops aren't sworn to each other, they are sworn to obey the gospels," veteran pro-life leader Joe Scheidler of the Chicago-based Pro-Life Action League told LifeSiteNews.com. Scheidler added that bishops nevertheless often do act like members of a "unique club" generally protecting each other and not talking about each other in public.
"But if a bishop is so bad" like Gumbleton, said Scheidler, "If they are doing something that is causing something that is causing scandal, it takes a strong bishop to call them on the carpet."
Read Bishop Alexander Sample's statement here.
See related coverage by LifeSiteNews.com:
No Catholic Venue in Tucson for Gay Activist Bishop Gumbleton http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/jan/07013106.html
URL: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/oct/09101402.html
No, they are not.
Protestants are mired in slavery to their own desires.
God bless Bishop Sample for standing up for what is right. Perhaps the 60s trend of youth rebellion is at last going to turn around, with the righteous young leading the old hippies out of the way. Why has that old fool Gumbleton been allowed to continue such politically connected, anti-Christian nonsense?
There’s a denomination called “ex-Catholic”, dontchaknow. ;)
bumpus ad summum
You mean you believe that salvation is through Christ?
I too made the choice to become Catholic. I felt like I had finally found my home. And the church did recognize my baptisim as I did not have to do it again.
Yes.
Isn’t yours?
It would be best to dissolve national bishop’s conferences like the USCCB.
OUTSTANDING!!!
Is your salvation fact or faith?
***It would be best to dissolve national bishop’s conferences like the USCCB.***
Given the heretical nature of many of them, the United States and Canadian bishops might do better under the buggy whips of the keepers of orthodoxy in the Vatican.
***Is your salvation fact or faith?***
If it is a fact, then I wonder what form of command that God received to let Him know of that fact.
What does the Bible have to say about abortion? Euthanasia? Nuclear war? Obviously, these things weren’t explicitly stated in 10 Commandments nor in the Gospels. How dare a minister or priest teach about the evils of these things- they weren’t outlined in the Bible!
Oh Sola Scriptura...
Me too. The Protestants claim they "know" they are "saved" (guaranteed) but they can't tell you how they know that except that they really believe it! Well, the idea that just because someone believes in something doesn't make it true somehow exscapes them.
But they always make sure they mock the Catholic Church (they would mock the Orthodox Church too but most of them don't know what it is) as regards sacraments and "lack of faith" in the Bible, but fail to see the big log in their own eye that all they did was say a few magic words ("adopting" Jesus), got dunked, and are now "saved."
Me too. The Protestants claim they "know" they are "saved" (guaranteed) but they can't tell you how they know that except that they really believe it! Well, the idea that just because someone believes in something doesn't make it true somehow exscapes them.
Please see this link Does Salvation result from Works or from Faith?
It describes the difference between "faith" (as Protestants refer to when talking of salvation) and "faith" (as you are referring to it above) in a clear fashion.
So How do we know we are saved? First the bible tells us what we must do to be saved. Then the Holy Spirit bears witness to our Spirit that we are saved.
How does anyone know they are saved? They can only go on what they believe. We have biblical grounds for our faith. Good enough for me.
By faith we accept the existence of God. By faith we follow what His word tells us to do. By Faith we rely on Him to perform His word.
But they always make sure they mock the Catholic Church (they would mock the Orthodox Church too but most of them don't know what it is) as regards sacraments and "lack of faith" in the Bible, but fail to see the big log in their own eye that all they did was say a few magic words ("adopting" Jesus), got dunked, and are now "saved."
There are no "magic words" there is however a plan that God has established in His word. It's quite simple and boils down to:
A. Admit you are a sinner.
"There is no one righteous, not even one ... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:10,23. (See Romans 5:8; 6:23.)
Ask God's forgiveness.
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
B. Believe in Jesus
(put your trust in Him) as your only hope of salvation.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 (See John 14:6.)
Become a child of God by receiving Christ.
"To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)
C. Confess that Jesus is your Lord.
"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (See verse 10.)
(taken from HERE)
Based on:
"5. The Salvation of Man
Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.
Conditions to Salvation
Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.
* Luke 24:47 [KJV/NIV]
* John 3:3 [KJV/NIV]
* Romans 10:13-15 [KJV/NIV]
* Ephesians 2:8 [KJV/NIV]
* Titus 2:11 [KJV/NIV]
* Titus 3:5-7 [KJV/NIV]
The Evidence of Salvation
The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit.
* Romans 8:16 [KJV/NIV]
The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness.
* Ephesians 4:24 [KJV/NIV]
* Titus 2:12 [KJV/NIV]"
(taken from HERE The "KJV/NIV"'s are links on the source page to those scriptures)
For further background look HERE
These last three links are all from the Assemblies of God web page. (I attend a Pentecostal Church of God congregation which is a sister church of AofG and holds essentially the same beliefs)
We (AofG and PCofG) do not believe that baptism is a requirement for salvation. It is merely one of the first testimonies to the world that you have become saved. There are denominations that belive it is required but that is beyond the scope of what I wanted to address.
Now, Can we get back to celebrating Bishop Sample doing the right thing and leave the Protestant vs Catholic battle to a thread more fitting for it?
I have no problem with whether it's good enough for you. But it still reduces to the ridiculous notion that just because someone believes in it, it must be true.
Circular reasoning. Your faith authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates your faith.
Good enough for me
I am glad, but what makes you the universal standard? Just because it works for you doesn't mean it's universally true.
Please see this link Does Salvation result from Works or from Faith?
That's not what Jesus teaches in the Synoptic Gospels. That's Paulianity, not Christianity.
There are no "magic words" there is however a plan that God has established in His word
The magic words are "I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior...and then you must be baptized...all rituals coming form a book which you, by your choice, consider sacred. It's all a belief. I don't share your belief and you have nothing to offer that would prove that your belief is true—except your own belief! That's about as good as monopoly money.
Ask God's forgiveness. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
Well, the Bible also says that whatever you ask for in belief will be grated to you...cherry-picking is easy. It doesn't prove anything however.
"To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)
What do you mean "receive" him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to "receive" God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around. Either we are acceptable to God or we are not, and even that would have to be according to his will and not ours.
C. Confess that Jesus is your Lord. "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (See verse 10.)
Magical words...more rituals.
***If it is a fact, then I wonder what form of command that God received to let Him know of that fact.
Me too. The Protestants claim they “know” they are “saved” (guaranteed) but they can’t tell you how they know that except that they really believe it! Well, the idea that just because someone believes in something doesn’t make it true somehow exscapes them.
But they always make sure they mock the Catholic Church (they would mock the Orthodox Church too but most of them don’t know what it is) as regards sacraments and “lack of faith” in the Bible, but fail to see the big log in their own eye that all they did was say a few magic words (”adopting” Jesus), got dunked, and are now “saved.”***
The beliefs of the Protestants usually turn into claims of knowledge because they simply don’t know enough of the early Church and Scriptural genesis to understand otherwise. The beauty of the Reformation is that one does not require anything rigourous; one merely is swept away on a magic carpet ride.
***How does anyone know they are saved? They can only go on what they believe. We have biblical grounds for our faith. Good enough for me
I have no problem with whether it’s good enough for you. But it still reduces to the ridiculous notion that just because someone believes in it, it must be true.
Circular reasoning. Your faith authenticates the Bible and the Bible authenticates your faith.***
Sounds perfect; now reality sets in where Joe next door believes that x means y and John next to door to him believes that x means z.
Whereas in reality, neither of them have a clue because neither of the them have investigated the Faith and what the Fathers declared.
***”To all who receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.” John 1:12 (See Revelation 3:20.)
What do you mean “receive” him? That is such an oxymoron. Who is man to “receive” God? It seem meet that the Lord should receive us, rather than the other way around. Either we are acceptable to God or we are not, and even that would have to be according to his will and not ours.***
That is also a result of the Reformation - that God must accept us on our own human terms. The original Church belief is that God will accept us only on His terms.
What makes you think, in ANY way, that the Reformers taught God must accept us on OUR terms?
It is the Catholic Church that would have people winning favor by their good deeds - accepting people on their terms - rather than by grace through faith.
You have no love for Calvin, and I have mixed feelings - but he did NOT teach that “God must accept us on our own human terms.”
“Whereas in reality, neither of them have a clue because neither of the them have investigated the Faith and what the Fathers declared.”
They will be OK if they have investigated what GOD has declared!
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