Posted on 10/23/2009 8:41:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Hi ZC,
This is why we are in the *last Days*
We are that generation living like those in Noach’s Day.
Well ZC the Torah was never meant for gentiles...
But seeking the wisdom of GOD in TOrah should be the goal of all people, yet GOD does not see it as a requirement for gentiles...
He worked at my local library. We called him "Conan the Grammarian."
You might enjoy CS Lewis's Mere Christianity. I'm not saying you'll find him in agreement or disagreement with you, but that you'd probably have a completely different perspective on your question afterwards :-)
ZC,
Why would GOD choose a evil angel to do his work?
I do not mean this dis-respectfully, but more people today are abandoning a belief in GOD because they hate him, I am told that constantly by Atheists, they don’t believe he exists and they hate the GOD of the Jews Christians and Muslims and blame those religions for all the suffering death and persecution that has gone on in the world....
How would you go about defending GOD to people that want nothing to do with him by saying Satan is doing GOD’s work?
I respect Judaism very much and believe it is the Jews who have brought Salvation to mankind by embracing monotheism and as a Christian by the Messiah who was to come through the Jews....
What I see today is people in droves leaving religion to embrace atheism, secularism and liberalism and I see religion fading away, you can see that happening in Europe.
The only hope I see in such a evil world today is conversion of the spirit, letting Jesus touch there heart, otherwise I don’t see how you think religion will last in the current world we live in....
Moses says there were three that sinned in the Garden. Ezekiel says that the king of Tyrus was in the Garden.
Did I say he was an evil angel? I said he's one of G-d's angels and he does his job(s).
I do not mean this dis-respectfully, but more people today are abandoning a belief in GOD because they hate him, I am told that constantly by Atheists, they don’t believe he exists and they hate the GOD of the Jews Christians and Muslims and blame those religions for all the suffering death and persecution that has gone on in the world....
How would you go about defending GOD to people that want nothing to do with him by saying Satan is doing GOD’s work?
On the contrary, how do people who don't believe in G-d defend their belief that "good" and "evil" exist without a G-d to define them and proclaim what falls in each category?
I respect Judaism very much and believe it is the Jews who have brought Salvation to mankind by embracing monotheism and as a Christian by the Messiah who was to come through the Jews....
I'm sure you do, though from the Jewish perspective chr*stianity and its concept of salvation are seriously in error.
What I see today is people in droves leaving religion to embrace atheism, secularism and liberalism and I see religion fading away, you can see that happening in Europe.
That doesn't means there's an "evil angel" out there rebelling against G-d. It means there are evil human beings out there rebelling against G-d.
The only hope I see in such a evil world today is conversion of the spirit, letting Jesus touch there heart, otherwise I don’t see how you think religion will last in the current world we live in....
As I said, from the Jewish viewpoint chr*stianity is in error and J*sus was not and is not the messiah. I don't understand why you don't think HaShem Himself can touch people's hearts. But they have free will, and how they respond is up to them.
In addition to being the actual tempter of Eve, the Nachash also represents the yetzer hara`, the evil inclination. The King of Tyre and others like him certainly allowed themselves to be led by this inclination.
The Torah has a higher authority than the Prophets and the latter must always be interpreted in the light of the Torah. And in the Torah, there is no evil counterpart of G-d (G-d forbid!).
Hi ZC,
Still do not understand what you mean by Satan is doing the work for GOD????
GOD Hashem as you say is a GOD of rules and of course Love but the penalty for breaking GOD’s commandment is death....
GOD does not say that he forgives man’s disobedience by a slap on the wrist, also the Jews atone for there sins, (Yom Kippur) are you saying gentiles are given a free pass with Hashem for there dis-obedience?
Just trying to understand your perspective...
You prefer to believe that there is an evil counterpart of of G-d out there? If that were the case there wouldn't be One G-d; there'd be two.
Evil would not exist if G-d had not created the worlds and chose to continue to exist Alone, but He chose to create. He could have created only spiritual worlds, but He created our lowest physical world as well. He could have not created a creature with free will but did so. He could have chosen not to endow this creature with both a good and an evil inclination but He did so. He could have chosen not to give this creature any laws to obey. But He did all these things, and all these things lead to at least the possibility of evil.
As a Fundamentalist chr*stian you are used to thinking in terms of a gigantic cosmic war between G-d and his "evil enemy," but there is no such war and there is no such enemy. There is only us with the free will to obey the commandments G-d has given us or to disobey them--and the fact that the evil inclination we were created with in the beginning raged out of control after the sin in the garden.
You have always thought that Judaism is merely the first stage of chr*stianity, but it is not. It is very different. And I'm afraid you will never be able to fit Judaism into an alien (and pagan) dualistic system.
I don't mean any of these things in rancor. I'm just being honest with you. If it's any comfort, I used to believe as you do. It takes a while to understand and to stop projecting chr*stianity into the TaNa"KH.
ZC,
No I don’t believe that..I believe Satan is one of GOD’s rebellious Angels..I assume GOD could of destroyed him if he chose to do so, but I think he wanted human beings to have free will and come to know him not by force but by our free will to do so...GOD is eternal so before Judaism, before the first human beings were created, GOD was dealing with rebellious angels and Satan...
I am not a fundamentalist Christian, I am a Christian non-denominational and I try to do what Jesus commands first to Love GOD with all my heart my soul and mind and to love my neighbor as myself.... I do think that GOD wants all people to try and adhere to all of his laws in Torah but GOD knows most people won’t.....Judaism is a religion that is built on a belief in a Monotheistic GOD, it based on a cultural and ethnic bond that many Jews have with each other, and traditions of family and history, and I more than respect that....I just think without Jesus Christ Gentiles would be more evil and hate the Jews more than they do today...
An Orthodox Rabbi said that the USA is a Christian Nation because it is the only country that does welcome the Jews...
I hope you see the GOOD of the Christian Faith....
Of course the evil one is not the counterpart of the Heavenly Father as when the evil one was created he was not created evil. IT was because of his beauty and intellect he decided he would replace the Heavenly Father.
And as Moses says that there two trees in the midst of the garden. The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That evil came about between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and is why this earth became without form and void and flooded.
Ezekiel names the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when he says that the king of Tyrus was in the Garden. Actually the promise to Abram came long before the law and it is still being fulfilled to this day.
Satan is not in rebellion against G-d. He is doing the job(s) G-d assigned him.
This is chr*stian doctrine from the "new testament." This is not the Jewish understanding nor is it in the Hebrew Bible.
I have no objections to chr*stians who hold to chr*stian doctrine (otherwise, why be a chr*stian at all?). I only object to the insistence that the Hebrew Bible teaches chr*stian doctrine.
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