"Here's yer sign", resty.
Posted on 11/30/2009 6:01:03 PM PST by delacoert
I’ll just leave this here…
Before a defense of any kind of religious discrimination, one ought to make all of the necessary disclaimers: of course I oppose government-sponsored discrimination, and I certainly would not support the kind of absurd treatment described by Steven Reinhart in his piece featured below. That being said, there is a legitimate case to be made for judging any candidate for office by his religious convictions.
In late 2007, Mitt Romney made his somewhat-famous speech on religion, where he spoke the following words:
“Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.”
Similarly, Romney has stated: “I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it…my faith is the faith of my fathers. I will be true to them and to my beliefs.”
If freedom requires religion, if his Mormon faith sustains his life and he will be true to those practices, then I’m at an utter loss as to why we should ignore Romney’s religious beliefs when evaluating his fitness for the White House.
We ask plenty of questions of any Evangelical Christian candidate: what do his beliefs about the nature of God, the nature of the cosmos, and the meaning of man’s life mean for his potential tenure in office? But for whatever reason, these questions are looked at as unnecessarily piercing and prejudiced when asked of a member of a minority faith.
When Sarah Palin gave her fumbling answer about Israel’s settlements, several commentators jumped on her faith, wondering whether she subscribed to the bizarre but potent sect of modern Christianity that believes in the imminence of the End Times. Will anyone ask Mitt Romney about the oddities of the dogma of the Mormon Church? There are plenty of Mormon doctrines that may strike people as a bit odd — and rightly so. It is established in the church that the devout can reach the upper echelons of heaven and eventually become gods themselves, able to create their own universes and govern them as they see fit (all while supervised by the One True God). Why is it that when I bring this up to Romney fans, I am dismissed as a bigot?
As an atheist, I both understand and accept that in a predominantly Christian society, my thoughts on religion are necessarily going to open me up to questions. If I were to ever run for office (don’t count on that, by the way), I would not expect my supporters would try to ward off any questions about my atheism with the victim-card of discrimination. One’s philosophy of religion contributes profoundly to his worldview and thus is a completely valid criterion by which to partially evaluate a candidate’s fitness for office.
I view all religions as equally bizarre and irrational. But mainstream Christianity is often adopted as a cultural guise, meant for purposes of assimilation with the majority. Probe most self-described Christians and you’ll find plenty of deviation from standard dogma. Devotion to Mormonism, which is completely outside of the American mainstream, requires a certain level of commitment. To what extent will Romney’s faith influence his decision-making? I ask that question of devoted Evangelicals and judge them accordingly, and I will do the same of a Mormon. And I am not going to apologize for that.
Thanks nana, that was the quote I was thinking of.
:)
"Here's yer sign", resty.
“Got any links to evidence of any of this stuff?”
Too much of a nanny-stater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl81Pq4aOOo
“Got any links to evidence of any of this stuff?”
Too soft on illegals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jKeWIrlzLw
“Got any links to evidence of any of this stuff?”
Too soft on crime.
Just more big gov, nanny state compassionate conservative BULLS**T that put the GOP where it is today.
On it’s knees.
Resty either doesn’t get it or refuses to, I don’t know which. But the fact remains, the lds do hide the truth with investigators and even with active members. The missionaries are taught to “skim the surface” with investigators. I recall how they spent the majority of the discussions explaining how “similar” lds were with Christianity.
I sometimes wonder if many of the mormons really dig deep into their scriptures and really study what it is they believe.
I am of the opinion that many don’t, because if they truly compared all of the books the inconsistencies will show themselves. My wife and son “read” their scriptures daily(bom mainly) but when I bring up things like men becoming gods, she looks at me quizzically, like “what the heck are you talking about?” I don’t touch the polygamy topic because she’s always trying to “defend” the church by noting that it’s not practiced anymore. She doesn’t see the contradiction in regards to D&C 132 still being in their scriptures and the words “spoken” within. I also mentioned BY’s statement about none entering the CK without JS’s approval and she didn’t have an answer.
What this indicates to me is a lack of understanding of her beliefs. Which also shows that they’re not being taught all that there is within their scriptures when they do attend services. Is it her fault? Partly, but she has naively placed her faith in the church and honestly expects them to return that faith.
I know she’s only one example, but she professes to be devout, she’s very active, etc., etc. I bring this up only because I don’t think many mormons honestly study the foundation of their beliefs. That a 14 year old with a shady past is at the core of their beliefs. That everything they believe is predicated upon him and him alone. If he’s not what he says, then the whole thing comes crashing down. But many won’t look at this. In fact, they refuse to even acknowledge his past and even go so far as to promulgate revisionist history with his life.
Whether or not she’s representative of the whole, I don’t know, but it is an insight as to how some do not comprehend what it is they are reading(bom) and what they believe(moromonism).
Thanks for the prayers and support. I am still working on my own education as it relates to scripture, but as long as I realize that Jesus is the way, I should be able to figure it out.
SZ
Links to FACTS that prove your point.
I wish others would be able to see the links to Mitt's failures and act accordingly.
I'm seeing this in ANOTHER thread right now!
Ok what do you think was hide from me??
Well you were nice to me, so I’ll say something nice too.....I like your tagline.
Was polygamy explained to you? How about becoming a goddess? Did you understand what garments were, or what the Temple ceremony was?
Did someone explained those to you BEFORE you believed in Mormonism?
Resty either doesn’t get it or refuses to, I don’t know which. But the fact remains, the lds do hide the truth with investigators and even with active members. The missionaries are taught to “skim the surface” with investigators. I recall how they spent the majority of the discussions explaining how “similar” lds were with Christianity.
****
You don’t seem to read well either
I told you I learn every things about the Church on my own not the Missionaries.
I had purchased the standard works and the set of the History of the Church I also had stuff of Walter Martin and list to John Anleberg, Dave Hunt and the Tanner light house etc
Before I ever met a missionary I as a young person heard about polygamy and the Mormon Church.
When I read the King Follet Sermon in the History of the Church my soul jump for Joy why because of understanding who we are I also understand that no one could be Greater than Our Father as Heavenly Father was but I also know how we as his children and opportunity to wonderful things someday.
I also know when that chapter comes up as a lesson it is understood where man position is in the scheme of things and even in the Pearl of Great Price the Lord tutors us where his children fit in.
None of us will ever be on the level of the Godhead but we will all be joint heirs.
Abraham 3
And the Lord said unto me:
These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they;
I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
________
“I also mentioned BY’s statement about none entering the CK without JS’s approval and she didn’t have an answer.”
***
Ever hear of the jokes about pearly gates and folks can’t get through unless St Peter lets them in?
That is because at the time and that dispensation Peter held the keys which he passed on to Joseph Smith in this last dispensation.
I really doubt you ever understood the priesthood.
Was polygamy explained to you?
I heard about that before I ever met a missionary
How about becoming a goddess?
I read in the History of the Church about the CK, TRES, TEL.
Did you understand what garments were, or what the Temple ceremony was?
Much that is needed to be known is taught in our Sunday school and Relief Society for men in the Priesthood.
There is nothing in the Temple Ordinance that is startling.
Antis could try to spin it for sensation because they hate the Church.
I converted in 1982 I had access to all that is available today book stores, articles you could send away for etc.
I been there done that!
There is nothing new that I am not aware of even the stuff from ages past that has been updated and repackaged as something new!
I left no stone upturn!
My bench mark is the Bible everything I come across I use the scriptures as to how to process this and now I also use the Book of Mormon because the Spirit is the Same the Holy Ghost.
As stated in John 14
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things,
and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Did someone explained those to you BEFORE you believed in Mormonism?
Like I said I had a testimony even I before met the missionaries and even than they would ask members to investigate.
And they answered all of my questions and were amazed at how much I knew.
My first calling was ward librarian and there I had access to the BH Roberts collection and also Journal of Discourses.
Plus many, many books!
I humbly testify in the name of Jesus Christ Amen!
I spent 18 years looking for things I knew from the Bible that the mainstread chuches dismiss now days.
The Lord answered my prayer I am so thankful.
Wow, resty. Lay off the Kool Aid!
BTW, I do not believe you knew all of those things before you joined. And Temple Rituals are NEVER discussed in RS or priesthood or even in the Temple prep classes, they just give you vague statements. The temple ceremony itself cannot be discussed outside of temple walls.
Quite honestly, I find it sad that you have bought into this hook line and sinker. The darkness you have embraced is great.
You are in both mine and mrreaganauts prayers.
I never said I knew what went on in the Temple as newbie stop with putting words into my mouth!
There was no bought into...
I was converted by the Power of the Holy Ghost!
It is a Joy that will live with me always!
in post 731 you answered this question:
Did you understand what garments were, or what the Temple ceremony was?
With this:
Much that is needed to be known is taught in our Sunday school and Relief Society for men in the Priesthood.
There is nothing in the Temple Ordinance that is startling.
Any reasonable person would conclude that the garments and temple ceremony was taught in Priesthood and RS meetings. I responded that that was false.
Resty, it really saddens me that you do not see that you are brainwashed. It happens slowly, I didn’t realize what the LDS church “sold” me until right before I left.
You were converted to the LDS by something, but I will guarantee you it was NOT the Holy Ghost, for the Holy Ghost would never testify of false teachings and easily proved frauds like the BoM
The joy may live with you in this life, but after you die and God tells you that you were wrong, there will be no joy.
you are the one lost
Nah, reaganaut knows exactly where she is. Question is do you. You jump for joy to be a goddess - except you cannot be one without a man calling you up to be one of his wives - to be eternally pregnant at a man's beconcall. Always second place, an eternity of working to remain 'worthy' of this guy, else you get tossed out to a lesser kingdom. Yep, really works for me.
The scriptures describe the behavior of the reprobate mind which is very prevalent in these daily attacks on another religion.
Excerpt description.
The reprobate on the other hand wants no real knowledge of God (Romans 1:28). Instead of living holy and bringing forth good works, their lifestyle is manifestly different from the saint.
Paul says they are “… filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful” (Romans 1:29-31).
Could it be said that a saved person, washed in the blood of Christ, was a hater of God? Do the saints invent evil things? Reprobates are without understanding, yet John tells the saints concerning false prophets, “ye need not that any man teach you” (1 John 2:27).
Paul goes on to say that these people know full well the judgment of God upon those who do these things, yet they continue to do them. Further, they not only blatantly sin against God, but “they have pleasure in them that do them” (Romans 1:32). No, there is a great gulf fixed between the reprobate and the child of God.
Oh, you mean when the missionaries are knocking on the doors? So, please tell us, are you looking forward to being eternally pregnant? Are you certain you'll be called through the veil?
Mormon woman understands mormon priesthood better than mormon priesthood holder....ROTFL
And St. Peter is a joke but Joseph Smith is the real thing....< snort >
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