Genesis and the Religion of Primitive Man (Was monotheism the original religion of primitive man?)

Xenos ^ | James L. Graham

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

I’d really like this thread to be a discussion about what sort of religion most of mankind originally held in ancient times -— monotheism or polytheism.

I would think that it would be clear, absolutely so, that when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden that they didn't think in terms of "religion" but in terms of "reality" and they knew that there was only one God, "in reality".

It was later on as men rebelled against God and also as their rebellions produced lies and "religions" to compete against the "reality" of the One God, that you have all the resulting confusion in the world.

As the Bible says, Satan is the father of lies and it's in his own interest to tell all sorts of lies about "diety" and to invent competing "religions"... :-)

[onedoug]

Oh, and Dennis Prager's 2 part interview with Gerald Schroeder. Well worth having.

[Star Traveler]

You say, Sukkot, and I've considered also, the Feast of Trumpets (or Rosh Hashanah... :-)

[mamelukesabre]

The rebelling against god seems to me to have started with eve and the serpent. There was something there even before that or the serpent wouldn’t have had any success.

[Uri’el-2012]

You say, Sukkot, and I've considered also, the Feast of Trumpets (or Rosh Hashanah... :-)

Chanukah is a great time for followers of the Jewish Messiah to celebrate.
The eight day Feast of Chanukah echoes of the eight days of the Feast of Tabernacles
It was most likely when the "light of the world"
(John 8:12) entered human form and tabernacled among us.

Feast of Tabernacles is the birth day of Yah'shua.

This question is answered when you believe and trust
the Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1.

Yah'shua's birth on Sukkot
(Sukkot is the Feast of Tabernacles or booths,
where we live in temporary shelters.
Sukkot is when YHvH took on a temporary
garment to be with His People
and to die as the Lamb of G-d on Pesach
in order to bring salvation to all
who would call on His Name:
(Romans 10:13 & Joel 2:32)
Yah'shua ( YHvH is become my salvation)).

Ps. 18:2, 46; 27:1; 35:9; 38:22; 88:1;
118:14; 119:174; 140:7; Isa. 12:2; 56:1;
61:10; Mic. 7:7; Hab. 3:18

Sukkot as the date is supported by Elizabeth's
pregnancy of John the Immerser.
The time sequence is outlined by the
Holy Word of Elohim in Luke 1 with Zacharias.

Zacharias served as a high priest and
based on his tribe, we know when he served
(1 Chronicles 24:7-18) and when he was
struck dumb and when John was conceived.

John would have been born on Pesach.
Most Jews believed that Elijah
would come at Pesach to announce
the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 4:5).

Factor in when Miriam visited her cousin Elizabeth,
Elizabeth was six months pregnant (Luke 1:26)
Thus the timing of Yah'shua's birth can be ascertained.

John (1:14) tells us that Yah'shua was made flesh
and tabernacled among us.

The word "dwelt" in the Koine Greek is:

σκηνόω Strong's G4637 - skēnoō
1) to fix one's tabernacle,
have one's tabernacle,
abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent),
tabernacle
2) to dwell

Eight days after the beginning of Sukkot is
another Holy Feast Day called Shemini Atzeret.

Eight days after a Jewish male is born he is circumcised.

After the Eighth day comes the the most Joyous day:
Simchat Torah or
the rejoicing in the Torah (The Word of Elohim).

Nine months back from Sukkot is Chanukah
where the light entered the temple.

Biblical Dates for the Birth of Yochanan the Immerser
and for the Conception and Birth of Yeshua HaMashiach

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Ted Grant]

The rebelling against god seems to me to have started with eve and the serpent. There was something there even before that or the serpent wouldn’t have had any success.

Not to mention that fruitcake, Lilith.

[mamelukesabre]

Lilith? Dont remember that one.

[Ted Grant]

Lilith is Adam's first female companion, according to Jewish folklore.

Edited from Wikipedia...

The Alphabet of Ben Sira is considered to be the oldest form of the story of Lilith as Adam's first wife. Whether this particular tradition is older is not known. Scholars tend to date the Alphabet between the 8th and 10th centuries AD. Its real author is anonymous, but it is falsely attributed to the sage Ben Sira. The amulets used against Lilith that were thought to derive from this tradition are in fact, dated as being much older.[33] The concept of Eve having a predecessor is not exclusive to the Alphabet, and is not a new concept, as it can be found in Genesis Rabbah. However, the idea that Lilith was the predecessor is exclusive to the Alphabet. ...

The idea that Adam had a wife prior to Eve may have developed from an interpretation of the Book of Genesis and its dual creation accounts; while Genesis 2:22 describes God's creation of Eve from Adam's rib, an earlier passage, 1:27, already indicates that a woman had been made: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The Alphabet text places Lilith's creation after God's words in Genesis 2:18 that "it is not good for man to be alone"; in this text God forms Lilith out of the clay from which he made Adam but she and Adam bicker. Lilith claims that since she and Adam were created in the same way they were equal and she refuses to submit to him.

[Star Traveler]

What is it, in particular, that makes a difference of the fourteen days between one of the two?

I’m not sure I see where those fourteen days are specifically accounted for...

[Uri’el-2012]

What is it, in particular, that makes a difference of the fourteen days between one of the two?

I’m not sure I see where those fourteen days are specifically accounted for...

I think I understand.

Chanukah is always the 25th of Kislev.

Last year the 25th of Kislev was the 22nd of Dec.

In 2007 it was the 5th of December.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Star Traveler]

Well, the difference of 14 days that I’m talking about is that there is a difference of 14 days between Sukkot and the Feast of Trumpets (give or take a day... :-) ...)

Now, although I think it’s very clear that from what the Bible explains that Jesus was not born on December 25th (whatever day that was bak then, which I don’t even know...) — the exact day is not really clear.

The appeal with this sort of thing is that one would like to make some things “of significance” by fitting into certain holy days given in the Bible, but I don’t see where this has to be the case. It would be nice and it would “tidy things up” — but it’s not something that is mandated.

At this point it’s speculative, although a lot of people would prefer to believe that certain events in Jesus’ history falls on certain holy days.

Even when referring to Elizabeth, it’s noted in the Bible that Mary visited in her “sixth month” — and that’s a bit of a spread of time, not pinning it down to when Mary was pregnant (i.e, had conceived).

We know that she had not conceived at the time of the angel talking to Mary, but we do know that she had conceived by the time she makes the trip to see Elizabeth. However, it looks (to me) to be a possible “spread in time” of maybe 1/2 a month or more variance (being that it’s described as “in the sixth month”)...

[Uri’el-2012]

Well, the difference of 14 days that I’m talking about is that there is a difference of 14 days between Sukkot and the Feast of Trumpets (give or take a day... :-) ...)

I have found letting the YHvH lead me by metaphor works best.

NAU John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Dwelt <4637> skhno,w skenoo
Meaning: to have one’s tent, dwell
Origin: from 4633
Usage: dwell(3), dwelt(1), spread His tabernacle(1).
Notes: (1) Or tabernacled; i.e. lived temporarily (2)
Or unique, only one of His kind (a) Rev 19:13 (b) Rom 1:3; Gal 4:4; Phi 2:7f; 1Ti 3:16; Heb 2:14; 1Jo 1:1f; 1Jo 4:2; 2Jo 1:7 (c) Rev 21:3 (d) Luk 9:32; Joh 2:11; Joh 17:22, Joh 17:24; 2Pe 1:16f; 1Jo 1:1 (e) Joh 1:17; Rom 5:21; Rom 6:14 (f) Joh 8:32; Joh 14:6; Joh 18:37

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[mamelukesabre]

Never heard of that. Sounds like the first woman was a bulldyke that hated men. Then god made eve, a nice girl.

[Between the Lines]

There is one head of a family - the father. There is one head of a clan. It is only logical that primitive man would emulate this order and have only one god.

[Star Traveler]

I do understand that and that’s one way that a person can understand it. I was just pointing out that there’s no definitive and explicit way to do it, other than the way you say.

I mean some things in the Bible are delineated very precisely and clearly in such a way that there can be no misunderstanding of it. But, other things are not so precise.

So..., it does seem clear in the Bible that Jesus was not born in (what is our month of) December. I think that’s pretty clear. What is not exactly clear is “exactly” when He was born.

And one more thing... do you have a “day-count” of how many days from a possible date of conception (for Jesus) to the supposed date of birth? And also, wouldn’t that count of days be also dependent upon what year it was?

[Uri’el-2012]

And one more thing... do you have a “day-count” of how many days from a possible date of conception (for Jesus) to the supposed date of birth? And also, wouldn’t that count of days be also dependent upon what year it was?

That would be difficult with varying number of days
from 25th of Kislev and the 15th of Tishri.

We are not certain of the year of birth.

Some think 2 or 3 BCE.

The eight days of Chanukah, Sukkot and circumcision are intriguing.

Since science has found that vitamin K is highest eight days after birth.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Star Traveler]

Well, one day we will know for sure... :-)

[Uri’el-2012]

Well, one day we will know for sure... :-)

Amen ! Brother.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Uri’el-2012]

Music Video by Jonathan Settel

Amen - Jonathan Settel

May this Bless you and yours.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[SentForth5]

Yeah, and?