Posted on 01/14/2010 10:18:32 AM PST by svcw
No, that's not a challenge, that's a deflection of the question, "Why join up with the Muslims?" If you had a legitimate answer, you should have posted it. If no other organization were willing (out of anti-Mormon bigotry, perhaps?) then you would be able to say that we were more ready to criticize than help. You can't say that, because there are many other charities in Haiti, helping.
“’A Mormon living in an Islamic society would be very comfortable,’ said Steve Young, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attending the event.
The sentiment is echoed by Muslims. ‘When I go to a Mormon church I feel at ease,’ said Haitham Bundakji, former chairman of the Islamic Society of Orange County. ‘When I heard the president [of LDS] speak a few years ago, if I’d closed my eyes I’d have thought he was an imam.’”
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WOW...just Wow.
Alrighty then. Sarcasm and snarkiness noted.
And while yes, I appear to have violated the religion forum rule regarding motives, in this case you explicitly state that you would complain about ANY group partnering with islamicists, so while I'm not allowed to say this is due to a hatred for muslims, I think I am allowed to restate my understanding of your position, which is that muslims are not to be associated with.
And I'm still not sure why that leads to a complaint about non-government funded relief efforts.
But since this is about religion, and not about politics, I would say that if we are going to by SUVs, thus committing ourselves to giving billions of dollars of our hard-earned money to the islamists, I don't have a problem with the LDS church getting some of our money back to use for humanitarian efforts.
And if I felt as strongly about islamists as other here appear to, I would do everything in my power to cut my use of oil, to minimize my association with the evil islamists -- like buy a Prius.
And in fact, that's exactly what I did, while so many others were asserting their absolute right to buy gas-guzzling cars and trucks, and thereby funding the evil muslim islmaists. Strong beliefs require sacrifice, and it's a lot easier to argue that others should be making that sacrifice, than doing so on your own.
So which is worse, the LDS church taking milllions of islamist dollars and using it to help victims in haiti and other disasters, or sending billions of dollars to fund the radical islamic states as they build nuclear weapons and fund terrorists around the world?
This being the religious forum, and the question being "can christians work with Muslims", and the answer here seeming to be "no way", I'll go ahead and cite a religious authority for my final response.
In Jordon, Pope stresses Christian-Muslim Harmony"
On the second day of his visit to the Middle East, Pope Benedict XVI stressed the need for harmony and unity between Christians and Muslims.In my opinion, if the Pope feels comfortable speaking of the virtues proclaimed by Islam, and speaks of unity and harmony, that would speak well of the LDS church doing something as simple as a joint relief effort with muslims."Muslims and Christians, precisely because of the burden of our common history, so often marked by misunderstanding, must today strive to be known and recognized as worshippers of God, faithful to prayer, eager to uphold and lift by the Almighty decrees," the pontiff said in an address at the King Hussein Bin Talal mosque in the Jordanian capital, Amman.
...
"My visit to Jordan gives me a welcome opportunity to speak of my deep respect for the Muslim community and to be treated to the leadership shown by his majesty, the king ... in promoting a better understanding of the virtues proclaimed by Islam," the pontiff said in a brief address shortly after arriving in the city.
I strongly disagree with your opinion that the LDS church’s overriding purpose in providing aid to Haiti is to “get headlines”.
Even people in false religions believe in their religion. And if their religion teaches them that they must do good works to obtain their heavenly goal, that will be strong motivation to provide aid to those in need.
I don’t think MY church does outreach primarily, or even significantly, to get headlines. We do what we do because we think that’s what God wants us to do.
Advertising the action doesn’t negate this point. One can desire that the deeds of the church be known, without that being a primary or even significant purpose of the action.
I would argue that the church would give aid even if there was no way to advertise that they did so.
Nothing I have said should be construed as applying to the IR-USA organization.
Well, Hi Tadpole. Haven’t seen you around much, how are things?
You can freepmail me if you wish.
No, not at all! I appreciate your time and effort, even if I believe your giving of the benefit of the doubt to either Muslims or Mormons is naive. And just because bashing and conspiracy theories have been a large part of the posts doesn't mean it was the point of the thread.
Locally, LDS helped the Islamic Society of Orange County’s Al-Rahman Mosque in Garden Grove develop its library with a $15,000 donation. “Their beliefs are similar to ours,” Robert Bremmer, a Mormon bishop, said at that facility’s open-mosque day in 2005. “They have modest dress, and so do we. They believe in all the [Old Testament] prophets, as do we.”
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They forgot to include they both believe in theocracies, they both lower Jesus to a “good man”, and the LDS used to require their women to wear veils as well (only in the Temple).
Whatever, I wouldn’t partner with a God-hater.
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2 John 1:10 -
New Living Translation (©2007)
If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don’t invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement.
King James Bible
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
I was being polite.
Islamic And Mormonism Similarities
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm
Similarities between Joseph Smith and Muhammad:
1. The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent “infidel” on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called “The Mountain Meadows” massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad’s followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.
2. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel “Moroni” and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.”
3. Both were given visions.
4. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the “strife among the different denominations,” and this “cry and tumult” led him to ask God “which of all the sects were right — and which I should join.” He was told that he must “join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...” (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had “divided themselves into schismatic sects.” In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: “Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error.” (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: “Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs.” In Surah 3, page 398, we read: “The only true faith in Allah’s sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them.”
5. Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.
6. Both wrote a book inspired by God.
7. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. “How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?” Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education.
8. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.
9. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.
10. Both claimed that their new “Bible” was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the “mother book” that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven.
11. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called “3913 Changes to Book of Mormon” by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, “Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down” by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.
12. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.
13. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.
14. Both were polygamists who had many wives.
15. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called “Allah” and “Allah’s three daughters” into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called “pyramidology” and the Masons and other magic systems.
16. Both received “after the fact corrective revelations” from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith’s divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses.
“As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil.” (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)
17. Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the “faithful converts” as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!
18. Mormons, contrary to the Bible, “baptize the dead” by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: “But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.” Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.
19. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the “original doctrine” of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.
20. Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah’s Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it “new light”. Muslims call it “Nasikh”. Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but “new light” changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until “The Manifesto” against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith’s death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.
For crying out loud, we’re talking about a relief effort. If there’s diversion of funds to Islamic terrorist groups with Mormon blessings and cooperation, let’s see some proof, and then that’s a story.
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Well considering the rather large number of Islamic Aid groups that have been linked to terrorist activities in the past several years, it is entirely possible that the LDS partnering with them indirectly contributes to terrorism.
However, I am entirely open to the possibility that the Mormons are just being duped.
That still does not answer the question, if the LDS want to be considered “Christian”, why partner with an ISLAMIC group instead of an Ecumenical Christian one?
If there’s diversion of funds to Islamic terrorist groups with Mormon blessings and cooperation,
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Ping to #90 for an article on that very thing.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2428295/posts?page=90#90
Very interesting article.
And then they complain that the Trinity is illogical and too complicated.
ouch...
Now that I know your true purpose,
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Mindreading is against forum rules.
As I have stated before, I would object to ANY church that claims to be Christian partnering with a Muslim group that is being investigated to terrorist ties.
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