Posted on 01/15/2010 11:21:37 AM PST by Colofornian
Most of us Mormons, if we are long-timers in the church, have heard that the “Constitution will hang by a thread” in the last days and that the LDS prophet, or church leadership, will save the United States from destruction.
This all comes from the “White Horse prophecy,” a bit of Mormon lore, where two devout followers, Edwin Rushton and Theodore Turley, apparently had a conversation with the prophet Joseph Smith. A “transcript” of Smith’s part of the conversation, 10-plus years later, ended up in Paradise, Utah’s John J. Robert’s private journal.
I have to admit, growing up, I thought the White Horse prophecy was Mormon doctrine. Many of the LDS adults I listened to spoke of it as if it were church doctrine. As I grew older, and couldn’t find it propagated in any priesthood or Sunday School texts, I realized it was apocrypha. It’s not impossible that Smith actually said that, it’s just that it doesn’t mean it’s a revelation by LDS Church standards.
When an LDS prophet receives revelation from God, it is submitted to the church’s Council of the 12 Apostles and discussed — and I imagine debated — in detail before it passes muster as prophecy.
In other words, a secondhand, 10-year-old journal transcript of an alleged conversation a late prophet might have had doesn’t cut it for inclusion in LDS General Conference. In fact, as early as 1918, church leaders were discounting the White Horse prophecy. The church leader at the time, Joseph F. Smith, described it as “trash” and “false.”
There is an excellent article on the White Horse prophecy, that includes the entire journal account, at Read
So why does the White Horse prophecy have such an ability to hook more credulous members? I think it’s human nature. We all want to have a little of the Indiana Jones in us. We romanticize our church existence, fantasize that there is more to it than a two-year mission, counting members during sacrament meeting, home teaching, collecting fasts offerings and Gospel Doctrine lessons. We admire our faith and want its important to be inflated more in the world than it is. Also, let’s face it, the White Horse prophecy makes for great LDS conversation. But even Bruce R. McConkie, in his “Mormon Doctrine,” called it “false and deceptive.”
Other faiths are no different. Look at the rapture fantasies of fundamentalist Christians. Another example, that twists into hate and sin, is radical Muslims or — to a far lesser extent, radical Christians — killing infidels or abortionists.
In short, though, to the rest of the world, the White Horse prophecy can only embarrass the Mormon church on those occasions when it, for some reason or another, makes the media wires. And that has occurred with fringe Idaho gubernatorial candidate Rex Rammell, a Republican, calling for a Jan. 19 meeting — open only to 100 handpicked LDS priesthood holders — that will discuss the White Horse prophecy in detail. (Hat tip to Top of Utah Voices columnist Neal Humphrey)
Sigh.
“I am tired of people telling me that I can’t bring God and the Constitution into my campaign speeches,” exclaims Rammell, in a December meeting of followers in his home that was later broadcast on YouTube Watch. Also in the video, Rammell says, “We are in America’s second Revolutionary War to save our freedom, which we paid for with blood. We need God’s help and I’m not ashamed to ask for it.”
And, as Rammell explains in an Idaho Statesman article on his crusade, he is willing to discuss the issue with non-Mormons and expects them to join his efforts to defend constitutional principles. Read
Personally, I would like to see as many religions as possible involved any of these types of crusades that the Rammells of the world engage in. I believe in an equal distribution of nuts.
As for his crusade, Rammell is probably a longshot toward bringing the White Horse prophecy into the Idaho statehouse. In 2008, he won only 5.4 percent of the vote in an independent candidacy for U.S. Senate.
Well, of course. So many Lds general authorities discussed this -- that never even mind the originality of it...because Lds believe that their general authorities are led in an "ongoing" manner by the Mormon god. If they were wrong, then ANYTHING else they've said in their two-a-year general conferences is equally suspect.
From the column: In other words, a secondhand, 10-year-old journal transcript of an alleged conversation a late prophet might have had doesn’t cut it for inclusion in LDS General Conference. In fact, as early as 1918, church leaders were discounting the White Horse prophecy. The church leader at the time, Joseph F. Smith, described it as “trash” and “false.”
(Wow, just wait til this columnist sees one list with all the General Conference quotes about this prophesy!)
From the column: Personally, I would like to see as many religions as possible involved any of these types of crusades that the Rammells of the world engage in. I believe in an equal distribution of nuts.
So Rammell's a "nut" for taking dozens & dozens of Lds general authorities & BYU presidents at their word? Hmmmm....
From the column: Other faiths are no different. Look at the rapture fantasies of fundamentalist Christians.
Uh, nice try, Mr. Gibson, but most of these "rapture fantasies" don't have the accompaniment that the Mormons attach to their prophets --
-- where Mormons prooftext Amos 3:7 ("Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets")...
...as an assurance that the Lord clues in their prophets on EVERYTHING!
...And, BTW, Lds "apostles" have also spoken out on the White Horse Prophesy (BYU professor Stephen Robinson claims that Lds "prophets" and apostles are interchangeable in their revelation role).
4 different Anti Mormon threads, from the same poster, all within about an hour. Must be a slow Friday.
Or the LDS has been busy...
***Must be a slow Friday.***
OR....
just maybe the Mormons are particularly busy today, providing plenty of material to post.
a bit of Mormon lore, where two devout followers, called unknown and “son”, apparently had a conversation with the prophet Joseph Smith. A “transcript” of unknown’s and Smith’s part of the conversation, 10-plus years later, ended up in mormon doctrine...
You’re 50 percent right. One is from the liberal and anti Mormon SLC Tribune. Another was from yesterday.
(Also, the Provo article may have been written by a Mormon. And certainly, Peggy Fletcher Stack @ the Trib has no "anti-Mormon" reputation...Really, Rip, if you don't want these publications to ever publish anything negative, then just write the journalists, their editors, their publishers, and in the case of the Mormon Times, their ultimate Deseret boss...if they shut down free expression in response, would that satisfy you?)
Correction: Standard-Examiner's Doug Gibson...
I used to think drinking made people believe and babel on about all sorts of reality disconnected type stuff. But now I see that this behavior is common, and that in the case of drinking, it just keeps it from being written down and getting published.
So, booze has that going for it. Which is nice.
We will not know if this vision is true until after it happens. It is, until then, a bit of Mormon Apocrypha. I kinda hope is it true and that a Mormon on a white horse will save the United States. Does Mitt Romney like to go horse back riding? Anyone ever seen Glen Beck on a horse?
From the article: In other words, a secondhand, 10-year-old journal transcript of an alleged conversation a late prophet might have had doesn’t cut it for inclusion in LDS General Conference. In fact, as early as 1918, church leaders were discounting the White Horse prophecy. The church leader at the time, Joseph F. Smith, described it as “trash” and “false.”
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This guy needs to really do some research. Below are quotes from LDS leaders, many in their General Conferences, and the FIRST ONE IS JOSEPH F SMITH SUPPORTING THE WHITE HORSE PROPHECY!!!
“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country, and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints, above all other people in the world, would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty. We cannot brook the thought of it being torn into shreds, or destroyed, or trampled under foot and ignored by men. We cannot tolerate the sentiment, at one time expressed, by a man high in authority in the nation. He said: “The constitution be damned; the popular sentiment of the people is the constitution!” That is the sentiment of anarchism, and has spread to a certain extent, and is spreading over “the land of liberty and the home of the brave.” We do not tolerate it. Latter-day Saints cannot tolerate such a spirit as this. It is anarchy. It means destruction. It is the spirit of mobocracy, and the Lord knows we have suffered enough from mobocracy, and we do not want any more of it. Our people from Mexico are suffering from the effects of that same spirit. We do not want any more of it, and we cannot afford to yield to that spirit or contribute to it in the least degree. We should stand with a front like flint against every spirit or species of contempt or disrespect for the constitution of our country and the constitutional laws of our land.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 403
“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.” - Apostle Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.”
- Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread.... He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.” - Apostle J. Reuben Clark, Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. . . . if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.” - Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“[Joseph Smith] said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.”- Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“Joseph Smith... [said] the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church?... ‘We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“But beyond all that, the Latter-day Saints have a responsibility, that may be better understood when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that ‘the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread, and that this people, the sons of Zion, would rise up and save it from threatened destruction.’ (J. of D., Vol. 7:15)
I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy, in the light of the declaration of the prophets of the Book of Mormon times, who declared that this land was a choice land above all other lands, and would be free from bondage and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of this land, even our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12)” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87
“It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction.
Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“[Joseph Smith] said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true.... ‘Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.’” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
“I must not take more time but to add this: The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde:
I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.)
Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“… the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction…. It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
“The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113
“I would like to add this in conclusion. It is said that President Brigham Young, many years ago, made this statement:
When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for Mormon elders to save it from utter destruction: and they will step forth and do it. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:182, Feb. 18, 1855.)
This is recorded in the Journal of Discourses and I presume it is accurate, but however it may be, is it not a possibility, that this Church, in its great leadership and in the power that will come to it in advocating the things that are divine and are right and true as for example the great welfare program, is not possible that when we as a nation shall have exhausted our resources—and we can well do that if we do not turn about—when we have we have reached that point is it not possible that to us will those who are not of us look for guidance and we will be held up as a people who are pointing an economic way that will mean for the economic and spiritual salvation and blessing of our people.” - High Priest Clifford E. Young, Conference Report, April 1949, pp. 75-76
“The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won’t care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113
“It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—‘The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.’
Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
“Joseph Smith... predicted that the time would come, ‘when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“Thank God for the Constitution. And may God bless the elders of Israel that when, as President John Taylor said, ‘the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of earth and proclaiming liberty.’” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, “Jesus Christ – Gifts and Expectations, New Era, May 1975, p. 19
“CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger.
Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this—‘that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow’ and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 326
“Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto… [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours… and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862
“What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation.... God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” - Apostle Orson Hyde, n.d., Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 53
“Saviors of the Nation.—To escape the judgments hanging over the wicked, and find a place where they might worship God unmolested, the Latter-day Saints fled to the Rocky Mountains. Here, and here only, during the temporary isolation sought and found by them in the chambers of “the everlasting hills,” could they hope to be let alone long enough to become strong enough to accomplish their greater destiny. For in that enforced exodus and the rounding of this mountain-girt empire there was more than the surface facts reveal. If tradition can be relied upon, Joseph Smith prophesied that the Elders of Israel would save this Nation in the hour of its extremest peril. At a time when anarchy would threaten the life of the Government, and the Constitution be hanging as by a thread, the maligned and misunderstood “Mormons”—always patriotic, and necessarily so from the very genius of their religion—would stand firm upon Freedom’s rocky ramparts, and as champions of law and order, liberty and justice, call to their aid in the same grand cause kindred [p.61] spirits from every part of the nation and from every corner of the world.
All this preparatory to a mighty movement that would sweep every form of evil from off the face of the land, and build the Zion of God upon the spot consecrated for its erection. This traditional utterance of their martyred Seer is deeply imbedded in the heart and hope of the ‘Mormon’ people.” - Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Saturday Night Thoughts, pp. 60-61
“... [Someday] there would be no stable government outside of the Latter-day Saints; and that it is their destiny as a people, to uphold constitutional government upon this land.”- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, v. 25, p. 123, April 3, 1881
“You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread.... A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America.... [T]he land will be left without a Supreme Government,... [Mormonism] will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart... to stand by the Constitution of the United States.... In these days... God will set up a Kingdom, never to be thrown down.... [T]he whole of America will be made the Zion of God.” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., May 6, 1843, in Roberts, Journal of John J. Roberts
“I shall take it as a witness that God designs to cut the thread between us and the world, when an army undertakes to make their appearance in this Territory to chastise me or to destroy my life from the earth…. I shall take a hostile movement by our enemies as evidence that it is time for the thread to be cut.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, pp. 256-257, September 20, 1857
“Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, ‘The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ It will be so.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
“[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon’ Elders to save it from utter destruction.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204
“The present Constitution, with a few alterations of a trifling nature, is just as good as we want; and if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 324
“I expect to see the day when the Elders of Israel will protect and sustain civil and religious liberty and every Constitutional right bequeathed to us by our fathers, and spread these rights abroad in connection with the Gospel for the salvation of all nations. I shall see this whether I live or die.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 11, p. 262
“The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time “this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction” (Journal of Discourses, 7:15). It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.
If the Gentiles on this land reject the word of God and conspire to overthrow liberty and the Constitution, their doom is fixed, and they “shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant” (1 Nephi 14:6; 3 Nephi 21:11, 14, 21; D&C 84:114-15, 117). (God, Family, Country, p. 345.)
As we spread abroad in this land, bearers of this priesthood, men and women with high ideals and standards, our influence will spread as we take positions of leadership in the community, in the state, in the nation, in the world. We will be able to sit in counsel with others and we will be able to influence others in paths of righteousness. We will help to save this nation, because this nation can only be preserved on the basis of righteous living.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 618-619
“Eleventh: In connection with attack on the United States, the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ (Journal History, Brigham Young’s Speech, July 4, 1854.)
“[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a political institution that shall hold sway over all the earth; to which all other governments will be subordinate and by which they will be dominated.” - LDS Historian and Seventy B.H. Roberts, The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would “hang by a thread” and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, “When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men” (JD 21:8). To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the “iniquity,” or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency.” - Encyclopedia of Mormonism, v. 1, p. 1992
“We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” - “The Historians Corner,” BYU Studies, v. 19, no. 3, pp. 391-392
“The History of the Church account is an amalgamation of the reports in the Joseph Smith Diary and the Nauvoo Neighbor. The report by Levi Richards is here published for the first time. A reminiscent account of this discourse by James Burgess contains the essential details found in the other three accounts published here, and adds that the “Constitution and Government would hang by a brittle thread.”
In the month of May 1843. Several miles east of Nauvoo. The Nauvoo Legion was on parade and review. At the close of which Joseph Smith made some remarks upon our condition as a people and upon our future prospects contrasting our present condition with our past trials and persecutions by the hands of our enemies. Also upon the constitution and government of the United States stating that the time would come when the Constitution and Government would hand by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the Latter day Saints will step forth and save it.
General Scott and part of his staff on the American Army was present on the occasion.
I James Burgess was present and testify to the above (James Burgess Notebook, Church Archives).”- Ehat and Cook, Words of Joseph Smith, 6 May 1843 Note, p. 279
“Our government, the best government in the world, is crumbling to pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204, April 8, 1868
“In all the meetings that I have attended, not one word, not one prayer, has been uttered or offered up for the saving of our cause and for the restoration of peace, but on the contrary the God of the Saints has been implored to bring swift destruction on all nations, peoples, and institutions that stand in the way of the triumph of this people.” - Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“[Brigham] taught followers that the governments of the earth were false and should be overthrown, that God had only delegated to the priesthood the right to set up a government. God would appoint a ruler, and all persons who otherwise pretended to have authority to govern were usurpers. Young was said to have asserted that although the Constitution of the United States was a revelation, it had fulfilled its purpose – the formation of a government so that the Mormon church could be organized. According to Young, slavery had nothing to do with the present disturbances, which were in consequence of the persecution the Saints had suffered at the hands of the American people.” - Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“Brigham Young and other preachers are constantly inculcating in the minds of the crowded audiences who sit beneath their teachings every Sabbath that the United States is of no consequence, that it lies in ruins, and that the prophecy of Joseph Smith is being fulfilled to the letter. According to the prophecy, the United States as a nation is to be destroyed. That the Gentiles, as they call all persons outside of their church, will continue to fight with each other until they perish and then the Saints are to step in and quietly enjoy the possession of the land and also what is left of the ruined cities and desolated places. And that Zion is to be built up, not only in the valleys and the mountains but the great center of their power and glory is to be in Missouri where the Saints under the lead of their prophet were expelled many years ago.” - Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“... if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may ‘hang by a thread’ it would be because of the immense powers given tot he President and his opportunity for their abuse. Let us... resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett, Utah, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU President (1951-1971), BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7,)
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would ‘hang by a thread’ and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, ‘When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth.;: - Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Selections from Encyclopedia of MormonismS, 1995, “The Church and Society,” p. 122
“[LDS TV weatherman Thom Spencer] at a Republican rally broke with tradition that a journalist should remain objective and spoke out at the rally because of a prophecy by Joseph Smith, who founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than 150 years ago. Smith predicted that the time would come ‘when the Constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and be ready to fall into other hands, but this people, the latter-day saints, will step forth and save it.’” - “Weatherman’s Politics Cloud His Role on TV,” Seattle Times, November 24, 2000
“They tolerate everything that’s bad, and they’re intolerant of everything that’s good. Religious freedom is going to go down the drain, too. I’ve never seen it worse than this, where the Constitution literally is hanging by a thread.” - Orrin Hatch, Republican Mormon Senator of Utah, “The Doug Wright Show,” (KSL) November 9, 1999
“The documents show that Joseph Smith did prophecy a number of times that the United States and the Constitution would be imperiled and that the elders would have a hand in saving them.”- D. Michael Stewart, “I Have A Question,” Ensign, June 1976, p. 64
“... the prophet Joseph Smith did make the marvelous prediction that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to some day save the Constitution of the United States.” - Preston Nibley, LDS church historian, Deseret News, December 15, 1948; quoted in The White Horse Prophecy, 1993, p. 65
“It’s a very common belief [among Mormons] that the Constitution will hang by a thread and the Church will save it.” - Jan Shipps, quoted in Warchol and Heilprin, “Mormon Myth Stalks Hatch to Presidential Race,” Salt Lake Tribune, Junly 15, 1999
“We have much in our national system that militates against the rise of a dictator. The Bill of Rights with its philosophy of individual rights against oppression is still a curb on a power-hungry President. But if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may “hang by a thread” it would be because of the immense powers given to the President and his opportunity for their abuse.
Let us delve once again into the great principles of the Constitution and resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints, because without the Constitution this glorious restoration would not have taken place in this land and might not have taken place at this point in history.” - Senator Wallace F. Bennett, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“Our government is an organization which was to, and since has, enacted, judged and enforced law through and by legislative, judicial and executive departments. It is encumbent on the American people to steadfastly maintain the historic balance of power by the three branches of government if our political system is to be preserved. If this is not done then the thread by which it has been predicted the Constitution will hang will be clipped and our form of government will disappear. We, the American people, must not become so internationally minded as to sell our birthright for a spurious promise of world peace. The most nationally-minded people are our enemies. We must remain faithful to our pledge, regardless of charges of chauvinism, to preserve America ‘with our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.’” - Judge Joseph E. Nelson, BYU Speeches, April 24, 1963, p. 3
“I am concerned that in our worship of materialism in our country we now have an indebtedness of over $5,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. (This includes obligations for goods already delivered and services already rendered to the government, although payable in the future.) I am concerned that we have in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine as our safeguard for ultimate protection of this hemisphere, and that as a result we are threatened with Communism not only in Cuba but in South America and now in Africa as well. If the Constitution is to hang by a thread in this country, I want to be one to help to preserve it.” - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, February 18, 1964, p. 9
“In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.” - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7
“Now what has happened in our country during the time we have been plunging toward socialism? Are we actually at that point where the Constitution may be hanging by a single thread and we need to step in to save it?”- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 9
“Anyone can look at the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith... Brigham Young and others.... I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question.”- George Romney, interview in “A Man’s Religion and American Politics: An Interview with Governor Romney,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1967, v. 2, p. 25
“[T]here will be a complete change of government. Washington, D.C. will cease to be capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign.... A new government will be established among the saints and that political Kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of Constitutional government.”
- Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316
where Mormons prooftext Amos 3:7 (”Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”)...
...as an assurance that the Lord clues in their prophets on EVERYTHING!
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If this were true, then how come the LDS prophet did not warn the Haitians?
Look at the rapture fantasies of fundamentalist Christians.
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At least his so called “rapture fantasies” have a basis in the Bible.
JS was just pulling things out of his ______.
4 different Anti Mormon threads, from the same poster, all within about an hour.
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More like 4 different news articles about the LDS within about an hours.
Must be a big day for Mormons in the news. You should be proud, Rip.
In other words, a secondhand, 10-year-old journal transcript of an alleged conversation a late prophet might have had doesn’t cut it for inclusion in LDS General Conference.
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If this prophecy is of such dubious origin, the would someone please explain to me WHY the LDS Church owned Liberty Jail museum has a MURAL with this prophecy on it’s walls?!?!?
The revelation was given at Liberty Jail. It was sent out as a letter, read to the members and at least one person quoted it in his journal at the time.
There is more evidence for this prophecy than for many of the things we accept from Classical (Greek and Roman) history.
We will not know if this vision is true until after it happens.
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I actually view this as one of (many) Joseph Smith’s FALSE PROPHECIES.
It was given about the time he was running for President of the United States. I believe this was given in hopes of his expectation of being elected and to drum up support.
I also believe that Mitt Romney sees himself as fulfilling this prophecy, which is why he is trying so hard.
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice He judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. Revelation 19:11-13
Well that lets Joey Smith out...He was anything but faithful and true...
and that lets Romney out...He’s a two time draft dodger...
Beck ??? Has he ever worn a robe dipped in blood ???
But since the Jesus of the Bible is the Word of God...
We Ogdenites call it the Standard Exaggerator. I read the paper online every morning to see if my name is in the obituaries.
thought you claimed you didn’t participate in these kinds of threads?
Doubtful that he has, however he has been trying much too hard to get into the Mormon Royalty club. He's so naive that he doesn't even know that in "Talk Radio" he is indeed a "Back Bencher".
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