Posted on 01/21/2010 12:08:12 AM PST by John Leland 1789
I think pinging a Catholic list with these heresies amounts to harassment.
So take me off that list, and make sure I never get another one, OK?
” “When you have the Lord Jesus Christ upon your altars, and actually in your hands, then what do you do with Him? Do you profess to put Him to death?” His answer was “Yes.” “You profess,” I insisted, “to slay Him, to immolate and kill Jesus Christ upon your altars?” I confess a chill went through me as I proposed the question and listen for his reply.”
The author of this article was clearly a liar. I have to admit that I have been amazed at how many anti-Catholics seem to believe dishonesty in the cause of anti-Catholicism is just dandy. I remember a youth minister who admitted to me that the [he who cannot be named, but he publishes millions of little anti-Catholic comic books] comics he had given a teenage girl who was considering becoming a Catholic were factually incorrect. I had spent hours tracking down the falsehoods inside those comics and writing up rebuttals from reputable sources. When presented with the evidence said Protestant youth minister said it didn’t matter that the comics were factually erroneous. It just mattered that they were effective. Lovely, just lovely.
And here at FR it seems to be the same story. So often anti-Catholics are exposed as liars.
Not only is he a liar, he's also ignorant. The word "immolate" does not mean "slay" or "kill". It means "sacrifice". The literal meaning of the term is to "sprinkle meal over" (Latin mola = meal), because that's what the pagan Romans did with their sacrifices. So the word entered Latin as a synonym for "sacrifice".
John, let me help you out a little. Anyone can post a story claiming that a priest told him thus-and-such, just like anyone can post a story claiming that a Baptist minister told him thus-and-such.
Catholic doctrine, however, is taught authoritatively by the Pope and the bishops in union with him, not by a priest in a casual conversation with a stranger.
So go try to find the authoritative Catholic doctrine teaching that we "kill" Jesus "again" in the Mass. You won't find it, because it doesn't exist.
Incidentally -- as is common in Protestant polemics against the Mass -- this author thinks "sacrifice" and "kill" are one and the same thing. This comes from ignorance of the Bible. Study Leviticus 16 carefully if you think killing the victim fulfills and completes the sacrifice in Biblical terms.
Interesting read and thought.
Livie Link please.
Why are you trying to define a CATHOLIC Mass by such a name and article?
Live Link please.
Why are you posting something without a live source? If it is a vanity — please note it in the title?
Pope wants crucifix at the centre of ALL westward-facing altars during Mass
Benedict XVI's "Novel" Traditions
Telling Time By the Catholic Church
Good Hymns, Bad Hymns
Order of the Mass (New Translation Catechesis Part I)(Catholic Caucus)
Open Ears, Open Heart (Preparing to Receive the Liturgy of the Word each Sunday)
(Cardinal) Newman on Rites and Ceremonies
Explains The Supreme Importance Of The Liturgy
Altar Card for the Modern Roman Liturgy
Slating the Chairs (USCCB prepares for its November plenary session)
Mass appeal: "It's like Jolt Cola for the Soul" [Catholic Caucus]
WHERE THE PRIEST SHOULD BEGIN MASS Know Him in the Breaking of Bread - A Guide to the Mass
The (Catholic) Mass (as explained by a youth for Evangelical friends) [Ecumenical]
What the Catholic Mass means to converts
Good News for the [Catholic] Liturgy
'An Ordinance Forever' - The Biblical Origins of the Mass [Ecumenical]
The Sacrifice of the Mass: Liturgical Vestments
What Do You See at (Catholic) Mass?
Purification of Sacred Vessels in U.S. (and more on the Purification of our Lord)
Tyranny of Words (Catholic liturgy - NO vs. TLM)
Mass should be enlightening and elevating, not a cookie cutter ritual
What You {Catholics} Need to Know: Mass (Sacred Liturgy) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
"The Catholic Mass ... Revealed"
The Battle Over the Mass [Catholic Caucus]
Scriptural Basis of the Mass as Sacrifice (Where is that in the Bible?)
Giving to God in Mass [Liturgy of the Eucharist]
Liturgy, Learning and the Language of the Catholic Faith
Cardinal Arinze's Mass Etiquette 101
Prostration and Vestments on Good Friday And More on the Precious Blood
Catholic Liturgy - Funeral Masses for a Suicide And More on Confession for RCIA Candidates
The Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass - A Primer for Clueless Catholics (Part 1)
The Orthodox Divine Liturgy, the Roman Catholic Mass and the Anglican Eucharist...
Catholic Liturgy - Dramatic Readings at Mass (And More on Processions, and Extra Hosts)
Catholic Liturgy - Mass Intentions
Catholic Liturgy - Pre-recorded Music at Mass And More on Communion Services
Vatican: Matters to be observed or to be avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist (April 23, 2004)
POPE ISSUES APOSTOLIC LETTER ON THE SACRED LITURGY
Liturgy: Are Glass Chalices OK for Mass?
EUCHARIST: HOLY MEAL
From this information, I let the article stand under the presumption that it was manually typed into Free Republic from a print publication.
John Leland 1789, if that is not the actual source of the article - or if it is available on the internet, please provide the url.
False indeed, but not in the sense that the author intends. It is a "false dogma" in the sense that it is NOT (contrary to the author's claim) Catholic dogma. The authors accusation is false. The author has borne false witness against his neighbour.
"Interesting" is certainly one word. "Slander" is a better one. "Blasphemy" better still, as the author is printing his slander in the Name of God. I sincerely hope he repented of these sins, before he died.
It's not, it's both (a) a calumny; and (b) a Biblically-illiterate statement.
There is no "[Catholic] dogma of a repeated sacrifice of Christ in the Mass". That's the calumny part.
God calls that sort of thing, "sin," not "interesting".
Equating "sacrifice" with the death of the victim is the Biblically-illiterate part.
Salvation:
The Religious Moderator requested I post a portion of my Freepmail to him on thread, and addressed to you. Here it is:
Things To Come - A Journal of Biblical Literature
A publication which last issued in London in 1915.
I have in my possession 18 out of the 21 volumes issued from 1894 to 1915. [These are in print form; I didn’t use a URL link.]
I don’t believe any articles I have posted can be found on the Internet. I have searched and not found any,
thus no URL to provide,
although I did run across a site advertising for sale new reprints of all of the volumes.
How so?
Jesus was sacrificed on the cross. He died and was buried. On the 3rd day He rose from the dead. If I understand the writer correctly he is saying Jesus can not be sacrificed again He has already died and risen from the dead.
Nope, wrong. The sacrifice began on the cross -- well, arguably it began the night before in the upper room, but let's set that aside -- but it certainly didn't end on the cross. Read the OT, specifically Lev 16, but generally the other OT sacrificial narratives as well.
The priest kills the victim. The victim has to be offered, liturgically, by the priest, on the altar. Then, in a number of cases, both the priest and the supplicant on whose behalf the sacrifice is being offered eat part of the sacrificed animal.
Killing the victim only begins the process. Hebrews makes it clear that the sacrificial liturgy continues in heaven, and it's this sacrificial liturgy which the Mass makes present on earth.
Jesus can not be sacrificed again
We don't claim to sacrifice Jesus again.
One sacrifice, one only. It's eternal because it's in heaven.
Okay, now I get it. For you guys it's like praying to dead people. You aren't doing it because they really aren't dead.
Open your Bible to Leviticus 16 and read it.
Then you needed to say in the first post that you were typing from this old manuscript. Anti-Catholic as it is.
For certain this is not what Catholics believe, but given that officially the Catholic Church still endorses the theory of transubstantiation, its hard not to come to that (unintended) conclusion.
As far as I can see the assertion the author makes is a bit of a stretch anyway - it sounds to me like he’s spoiling for an argument. The intention of the mass/eucharist is to follow Christ’s command, and to draw closer to Him by remembering His suffering and the life that He led, and the words that He spoke. Personally I think we all have a lot more to worry about that than quibbles over whether mass is a “repeated sacrifice”.
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