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When the Salvation Army enlists in the government
Washington Post ^ | February 18, 2010 | David Waters

Posted on 02/23/2010 10:07:05 AM PST by Between the Lines

Churches and other faith-based organizations that receive government funds, beware. In an agreement that will be enforced by a federal court, government agencies in New York have agreed to monitor the Salvation Army to ensure that it doesn't impose religion on the people its serves through its tax-funded social services.

The agreement just effects the Salvation Army's social work in New York, but it's more than a cautionary tale for religious groups in this era of government-backed faith-based initiatives. "With this settlement, government is watching out," co-counsel Deborah Karpatkin of the N.Y. Civil Liberties Union said in a statement. "It will not fund religious organizations to proselytize to recipients of government-funded social services."

The agreement highlights one of the issues that is vexing President Obama's faith advisory council: Should the government require houses of worship to form separate, secular nonprofit corporations to receive tax dollars to pay for social services? Obama's council was unable to reach consensus, voting 13-12 that there should be such a requirement.

(UPDATE: Closer monitoring of faith-based funds is one of the recommendations of Obama's faith advisory council: "To guard against inappropriate uses of Federal funds, the Government must monitor and enforce the constitutional, statutory, and regulatory standards that follow social service funds." Read the full report here.)

The agreement also raises interesting questions about what it means to be the church.

Using government funds seems to prohibit a church from talking about Jesus, or passing out written religious messages, but does it prevent anyone connected with a government-backed faith-based group from acting like Jesus?

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: doublestandard; godgap; liberalfascism; obama; obamacare; religiousleft; salvationarmy

1 posted on 02/23/2010 10:07:05 AM PST by Between the Lines
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To: Between the Lines
Seems to me that many Christians are extremely concerned about being “relevant” in today's culture. To that end, they end up thinking in terms of current cultural norms and approach good works in a very pragmatic way.

A little compromise here, a little compromise there...your funds may increase, but your ministry is less effective. God provides for and sustains us, He doesn't need Caesar's money to accomplish His purpose.

2 posted on 02/23/2010 10:26:51 AM PST by Spudx7
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To: Spudx7

James is, IMO, the ultimate ‘church smackdown’ book.
It covers everything from faith to works to wisdom to patience.

3 posted on 02/23/2010 10:41:33 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Between the Lines; wagglebee
to ensure that it doesn't impose religion on the people its serves through its tax-funded social services.

The agreement just effects the Salvation Army's social work in New York, but it's more than a cautionary tale for religious groups in this era of government-backed faith-based initiatives. "With this settlement, government is watching out," co-counsel Deborah Karpatkin of the N.Y. Civil Liberties Union said in a statement. "It will not fund religious organizations to proselytize to recipients of government-funded social services."

Then spike Obamacare NOW. The whole shebang was sold as something Christians are called to support. I won't be forced by the Federal government to tithe to Obama's own brand of Democrat Socialist Christianity.

4 posted on 02/23/2010 10:48:50 AM PST by a fool in paradise
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To: OneWingedShark

Our pastor just spent the last month preaching on James. Every Sunday I would start feeling rather uncomfortable as I listened...the sign of a “right on” sermon. Very convicting book indeed.

5 posted on 02/23/2010 10:52:25 AM PST by Spudx7
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To: Between the Lines

Here is a selection of articles to back up my assertion that the Anti-Christian League Union is being willfully ignorant of theocracy in Obama’s administration.

Would Jesus pray to block health care for needy? (Two bag barf-alert)
Orlando Sentinel ^ | December 24, 2009 | Mike Thomas

People are praying for many things during this holy season. But perhaps the most unusual request of all comes from religious conservatives, including some in Congress. They staged an Internet “prayercast’’ to block the health-care legislation being voted on today in the Senate. Given that Democrats have the 60 votes lined up to pass it, they may have to call in Benny Hinn to pull off this miracle. How exactly does one pray against health care?

Jesus The Socialist
World Mag ^ | 12/24/09 | Cal Thomas

Apparently not content with his congressional majority that wishes to force Americans on a long march to healthcare disaster, President Obama has invoked the name of Jesus to broadcast his gospel of spreading the wealth around...The president spoke of what Jesus “symbolizes for people all around the world,” which he said, “is the possibility of peace and people treating each other with respect.” And then, in the best tradition of a community organizer, the president said Jesus is about “doing something for other people.” Even the “three wise men” were invoked to support the president’s idea of wealth redistribution: “. . . [T]hese guys . . . have all this money, they’ve got all this wealth and power, and they took a long trip to a manger just to see a little baby.”...And what conclusion should be drawn from that journey? The president told the children, “. . . [I]t just shows you that because you’re powerful or you’re wealthy, that’s not what’s important. What’s important is . . . the kind of spirit you have.”

Obama’s “Christ”mas (Obamacare) gift to the masses (Xmas Eve Vote A Conspiracy?)
Gabrielle Cusumano via Townhall Blogs ^ | December 21, 2009 | Gabrielle Cusumano

Was Jesus A Socialist?
Fightin Words ^ | November 24, 2009 | Walter Scott Hudson
There is a charge among some left-leaning professed Christians that conservative social policies neglect Christ’s commission to minister to the poor. Does the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 imply Christians should petition their government to enforce “redistributive justice?” Jack Clark thinks so. We excerpt Clark’s podcast, Blast the Right, and consider his “equivalent alternative solutions challenge;” it is fine to oppose government programs which provide for the poor, Clark says, but only if you can present an equivalent alternative solution which will help just as many people, in the just the same way, just as fast...

Is Michael Moore a Jesus Freak?
The Atlas Society - The Center for Objectivism ^ | October 12, 2009 | Edward Hudgins
Moore asks, “Would Jesus be a capitalist?” He answers that capitalism “is opposite everything that Jesus ... taught” and that all religions are clear about one thing: “It is evil to take the majority of the pie and leave what’s left for everyone to fight over.” ...Moore says that Jesus “told us that we had to be our brother’s and sister’s keepers and that the riches that did exist were to be divided fairly.” Moore argues that one cannot be a capitalist and a Christian because “you can’t love money AND your neighbor.”

Michael Moore Tries to Out-Church Sean Hannity
US News & World Report ^ | October 07, 2009 | Dan Gilgoff
When Hannity suggests possible political labels for Moore, the filmmaker responds: “Christian.” Then Moore quizzes the Fox News host, a fellow Catholic, on the last time he’s been to mass. Trying to out-church him, Moore implies that Hannity is fibbing about having attended mass last weekend.

It’s no accident that Moore’s new openness about his religious faith is coming now, after the Democratic Party has spent five years urging its members to speak up about their faith to combat the conventional wisdom that the GOP is more religion-friendly. That campaign has spilled over to the broader liberal movement in a big way. But if Moore, Barack Obama, and Nancy Pelosi are all spokespeople for the left’s faith-friendliness, where’s the national leader of the left’s fast-growing secular wing?

Bishop V. Gene Robinson: Where is the Christian perspective on health care?
Manchester Union Leader ^ | oct. 2, 2009 | Bishop Vickie Gene Robinson

Liberal Religious Leaders Lobby for Liberal Health Care ^ | September 30, 2009 | Jillian Bandes
The public option was excised out of the Senate Finance Committee’s health care legislation just two days after the conclusion of a massive two-month effort from religious groups that lobbied for the controversial provision. The leaders of the 40 Days For Health Care Reform campaign emphasized that their effort was designed to promote increased access to health care no matter what the political flavor. But in the midst of intensive debate over the Democrats health care bills, the effort was seen largely as a religious push for Obamacare – specifically, universal coverage.

Did you just hear Kucinich? {IDIOT}
Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2009
Speaking about the need for health care on Fox Business, he quoted Jesus. He reminded us that Jesus said, ... “when I was hungry, did you feed me? When I was sick, did you care for me?”

Liberal Bernard Whitman Asks Conservatives “What Would Jesus Do?” About Health Care - Video
Freedom’s Lighthouse ^ | September 08, 2009 | Michael
Here is video of Bernard Whitman and Tucker Carlson talking with Martha MacCallum about health care. Bernard Whitman said “the fact that in this day health care is not considered a basic and fundamental human right in this country is an absolute disgrace,” and asked “what would Jesus do?” After Whitman says this you can hear Tucker Carlson chuckling in the background.

MSNBC’s Schultz: ‘I Believe Jesus Would Vote Yes for a Public Option’
Newsbusters ^ | September 3, 2009 | Jeff Poor
What would Jesus do? Well, Ed Schultz thinks he knows - that is on health care reform at least. Schultz, on his Sept. 2 MSNBC program, “The ED Show” told viewers he believed Jesus would vote for a government public option. That, he said, was to the dismay of some on religious right, or what he used the pejorative “Bible thumpers” to describe. “Now, I have been referring to the health care reform deal as the real moral issue of our time,” Schultz said. “I believe Jesus would vote yes for a public option, but some Bible thumpers don’t see me eye to eye on this one.”

Kennedy Grandson Prays For ‘Quality Health Care’ For ‘Every American’
Breitbart TV ^ | 29 Aug 2009 |
“For what my grandpa called the cause of his life, as he said that every American have decent quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege, we pray to the Lord.”

Obamacare: The Left’s Mor(t)al High Ground
NetRight Nation ^ | August 31, 2009 | Victor Morawski
Barack Obama has apparently now been advised to shift the ground in the debate over health care reform, to get it away from discussions about specific provisions in the pending legislation (whether it will force us to unplug grandma or use our tax dollars to pay for others’ abortions) and get it onto a far loftier moral high ground. This he did last weekend in a conference call to liberal clergy, urging them to endorse universal health care because of what he has decided is all part of the biblical injunction to “be our brother’s keeper.”

Religious Left Panics over Obamacare Troubles ^ | August 24, 2009 | Mark D. Tooley
For the Religious Left, socialized medicine has long been almost the moral equivalent of the Second Coming. So increasing political turbulence for Obamacare is creating panic and fear among the true believers. Must we wait still longer, they now imploring wonder, with sadness and rage.

Obama Seeks Health Care Salvation With Religious Left
The Bulletin ^ | August 23, 2009 | Joe Murray
Hoping to find saving grace with the religious left, President Barack Obama began a public relations blitz Thursday in which he hope to wrap universal health care in the shroud of morality. “We are God’s partners in matters of life and death,” Mr. Obama reportedly said in a conference call with Rabbi Jack Moline and other clerics. The conference was part of an effort to enlist left leaning clergy in the failing battle for Obamacare.

A Religious Element In The Health Reform Debate?
IBD Editorials ^ | August 21, 2009 | RAGHAVAN MAYUR

O’Reilly 8-19-09: “If Jesus Was Here...” ^ | 08-19-09 | via
Sister Campbell: “We’ve got 47 million people that don’t have access to health care.”
BOR: “No they do, they walk into any emergency room in the country, they have access to health care FREE.”
Sister Campbell: “Oh but then, please, please, then consider what that then does to those of us that have insurance, how it escalates OUR costs!”

What Would Jesus Do? Ask Obama
Townhall. com ^ | August 21, 2009 | David Harsanyi
This week, President Barack Obama claimed his version of health care reform is “a core ethical and moral obligation,” beseeching religious leaders to promote his government-run scheme. Questioning the patriotism of opponents, apparently, wasn’t gaining the type of traction advocates of “reform” had hoped. “I know there’s been a lot of misinformation in this debate, and there are some folks out there who are frankly bearing false witness,” Obama said, invoking the frightening specter of the Ten Commandments.

Obama Tells Ministers It’s a Sin to Oppose Obamacare
ECR ^ | 19 Aug 09 | EC
In a stunning display of audacity, President Obama took the opportunity of a conference call with ministers to strongly imply that his opponents were misrepresenting his healthcare plan and “bearing false witness” before reminding them that “I am my brother’s keeper.”
- OK Mr. President... other than the fact that the majority of misrepresentation and lies seem to be coming from your White House, as far as I know the Bible never says that “I am my brother’s keeper.” Genesis 4:9 asks “Am I my brother’s keeper?”... but the question is unanswered. Even if the answer is YES... how does that jibe with what you’re really saying... which is “Government is my brother’s keeper.” Misinformation and false witness, indeed.

Separation of Church and Health Care
Aug 18, 2009 | Always Right
One aspect of this health care debate that is not receiving much attention is how this massive health care will affect religious provided health facilities. About 10% of the nation’s hospitals are owned by the Catholic Church. Many states have heartburn with some of the exemption clauses that the Catholic Churches have, and have tried to force these religion institutions to provide care that they have conscious objections to like abortions and birth control. When health care dollars are completely under the umbrella of federal regulation, what will that mean for the religious freedom of these hospital and health care providers?

Obama to Discuss Health Care Today With Faith Groups (info on how to listen in)
ncr ^ | August 19, 2009 | Tom McFeely
At 5 p.m. Eastern time today, President Barack Obama will participate in a BlogTalkRadio discussion about his health-care reform plans. The discussion is sponsored by faith-based groups who back reform. The meeting is sponsored by “40 Days for Health Reform,” a group organized by more than 30 religious organizations to support Obama’s reform initiative. Three Catholic organizations are listed on the “40 Days for Health Reform” website as sponsors: Network — A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby; Catholics United; and Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good.

‘Bearing False Witness’: Obama Tells Religious Leaders Health Care Critics Are Guilty of Sin (audio)
Faith for Health ^ | August 19, 2009
“These are all fabrications that have been put out there in order to discourage people from meeting what I consider to be a core ethical and moral obligation, and that is to look out for each other.”

Obama makes moral case for health reform
AFP ^ | 8-19-08 | Stephen Collinson
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama Wednesday said America, as the world’s richest nation, had a moral duty to offer health care to everyone, in a fresh bid to bolster support for his top domestic priority. Obama addressed thousands of people in a call with left-leaning religious faith leaders, as the White House tried to still disquiet among liberals, and fierce opposition among Republicans, to his under-fire health care plan.

President Obama has no authority and a Constituional PROHIBITION on imposing his own “moral obligations” on US taxpayers in the name of biblical interpretations.

6 posted on 02/23/2010 11:17:50 AM PST by a fool in paradise
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To: Between the Lines

**When the Salvation Army enlists in the government**

Is this following the crowd or following the conscience — as St. Paul would say?

7 posted on 02/23/2010 3:52:58 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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