Posted on 05/05/2010 10:48:55 AM PDT by markomalley
I didn't drag it...It just keeps following you around...
Please do not make this thread about me. Please do not drag false versions of my statements on other threads to totally unrelated threads. This is not the first time, but it should be the last.
"The Catholic League is delighted to see that one of the most outspoken ant-Catholic bigots in the Clinton administration has been axed. Joycelyn Elders was nominated to the office of Surgeon General by President Clinton in 1993 and confirmed later by the Senate. The Catholic League opposed her nomination and confirmation from the beginning. Her anti-Catholic statements...should have alone disqualified her from a position of national influence and authority...The Catholic League continued to speak out against her during her tenure as Surgeon General." |
Time to close the thread.
It's also argumentum ad hominem AND dragged from another thread.
Congratulations to the non-catholics. They've managed to trivialize another thread.
Time for this thread to go.
As Tom Sowell often says, you can prove anything if you exclude the data which conflicts with your theory and include the data that confirms it.
For you to make this argument requires excluding the data on the enabling and concealment of sexual misbehavior in the non-Catholic denominations and in the world, and, more seriously, the efforts in the non-Catholic world to declare perversion normal and good.
AND you have to exclude the teaching of church, indeed, of the Bible, that the treasure is contained in earthen vessels.
The Catholics who read the Bible, which your side wants to pretend is very nearly the empty set, are not surprised that the clergy are assaulted by Satan or that many of them succumb. We understand sin and are aware of our own.
That many people, clergy and lay, sometimes slip into grotesque and awful moral failure does not touch the question of whether to be moral, sexually and otherwise, is to be free. Raising the question of the failings of one group, however, is a fine way to reduce the probability of a decent useful conversation.
“Time for this thread to go”
It degenerated a long time ago.
Thank you for telling it like it is.
I've not gone into the world as a whole in this discussion because it's fallen and has been since Eve was corrupted and Adam listened to her instead of God. The condemnation of such worldly behavior as sexual immorality is a given, and such condemnation cannot possibly be detailed thoroughly enough on this forum.
As far as apparently systematic, widespread concealment and protection of sexually immoral church priests, pastors, preachers or other individuals in positions of authority, who sexually abuse minor congregants or even congregants of any age at all, you're going to have a hard time demonstrating anything on the scale of the Roman Catholic Church.
Individual cases, certainly. I've yet to see an instance of such cases not being dealt with swiftly and the offending individuals removed from any position of authority if not the church itself, once the offense became known. It's been alleged that repeat offenders just move on to another Protestant church and are able to do so, due to the lack of any overarching hierarchy. That claim might be plausible, but I've yet to see evidence of it.
Again, man is fallen and prone to sin, and some will fall prey to their particular weaknesses. But an entire denomination apparently dedicated to moving sexual predators around, publicly defending them and sending them off to another church instead of removing them and handing them over to civil authorities?
No. The Protestant world just does not work that way. Neither should the Catholic, as you're learning, painfully.
“You can prove anything if you exclude the data which conflicts with your theory and include data that confirms it.”
Which makes this MO much more like an agenda than a reasonable, “useful conversation”.
“Come let us reason together” is a scriptural counsel, which apparently doesn’t apply here.
A little problem with that theory...It's called a lack of evidence...
For who knows how many years the defense of the Catholic church has been 'don't pick on us, other groups molest kids just as much as we do'...
Now the new twist now is, 'don't pick on us, other groups cover it up and hide the crime and shuffle their people around to cover it up as well'...
Well, in a word, that's not at all true...And that's why your church is in everyone's sights...
And that's a lousy job of trying to stick the Protestants into your immoral non-Catholic world...
But you're still hanging around the thread that so offends you...What's up with that???
What in the world are you talking about man?
So would you care to share with us your thoughts on Onanism? Do you, like your fellow anti-Catholic extremist Joycelyn Elders, think it should be taught to schoolchildren regardless of parental objection?
Or are you going to fail to answer the question as well, and let us draw our own conclusions about where Protestants really stand?
You reported Alex to himself?
Oh.
My bad
I still think that the headline should be "major intense" or, better, "heavy intense".
But no one listens to me.
Two things have to be neglected: First the misguided advice of shrinks at the height of this atrocity. Second, and I readily admit that this is lousy data, of the cases of sexual misbehavior in the Episcopal Church of which I know (back in the 70's) -- which admittedly is not that many -- they were ALL buried right away, unless they hit the news before they hit the diocesan level. One perp was later made a bishop.
BUT it is important to admit that we have done a lousy job until recently.
You guys are really big on 'isms'...You put a label on everything...I have no idea what Onanism is...
Yep. Does it get anybody's attention WHY the data is MORE available about Catholics?
And to exaggerate, to say "an entire denomination" may be fun, but it leaves the truth far behind while ignoring that at the peak of this disaster psychiatrists, in their own self-satisfied way, were saying this behavior was largely treatable.
AND, while we are far to slow in cleaning this up, we ARE cleaning it up and with increasing openness. These days the allegation alone gets a priest out of his parish and into some kind of suspended situation.
It is worthy of note that until other data came out, the accusation was that celibate Catholic clergy were more prone to this atrocity than others.
As more data appeared and that contention was harder to maintain, our enemies turned without missing a beat to the concealment issue. And now you are overstating it "an entire denomination" while ignoring the implications that in all the world (okay, maybe Mormons are as organized) we are the only outfit with the capability of producing the required data.
I am hoping that more and more men of courage will be made bishop. I do think that there is a tendency to go with either efficient bureaucrats or ivory-tower types.
It’s in the Bible.
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