Posted on 05/29/2010 1:58:48 PM PDT by NYer
On my last "Open Line" radio show (Thursdays from 3:00-5:00 p.m. ET), I took a call from Ben, a pleasant and well-spoken Unitarian fellow who took the Catholic Church to task for its "divisiveness" on issues such as abortion and homosexuality. We had a friendly but animated 15-minute debate of his opinion. Take a listen and see what you think. (Click the picture to launch the audio.)
ROTFL! As an 'empty nester', with four kids, I can enjoy that one!
*snort*
Oh, my, does that ever nail it!
You can tell because everybody claims him for their own - Methodist, Anglican, Catholic . . . .
I like to think he would have become a Catholic in this day and age.
I agree, seeing the evolution of the Anglican Church. I haven't read a lot of C. S. Lewis, and I've never read any Chesterton. I'll have to remedy that.
Our second oldest son is struggling with his faith, because he's a really smart young man who questions everything, and looks for logic. He perceives the Church as just demanding, without providing for any questioning. I told him he SHOULD question, but look for the answers from folks who KNOW the answers, not folks who are just looking to tear the Church down. I told him I have a very simple faith, and don't look for validation among the intellectuals, though he might feel the need to do so, because everyone approaches faith in their own way, even within the bounds of the solid teachings of the Catholic faith.
hee hee.
Doesn't sound as if you've ever set foot in a Protestant church, annalex.
You're permitted to do so now, have been since 1965. You should try it sometime. You'll discover that Catholicism isn't even mentioned at all, it's irrelevant.
You're confused by the heated theological debate on FR.
There is no better argument for the faith for a young person who's feeling his intellectual oats. Because Lewis was as smart as they come -- he had triple Firsts (Honour Mods, Greats, and English) and taught at Oxford and later at Cambridge -- and yet writes so clearly and plainly.
I'll read it, then order a copy for our son.
Since I met my wife 18 years ago, and till her conversion three years ago, I visited one Protestant church or another nearly every Sunday with her.
There are some that indeed pay no attention to Catholicism. However, there are enough that preach against the Church with consistency. Degrees of silliness and hostility vary. I never heard a serious debate about Catholicism organized, even though there usually is no shortage of Bible studies and guest speakers on any other imaginable subject.
Not once during these 15 years did anyone attempt a serious scriptural debate with me or any other educated Catholic, even though I befriended several pastors and participated in Bible studies regularly. I noticed that when a passage in the scripture would come up that directly contradicts Protestantism and supports the Catholic Church, that would be quickly brushed aside with some general statement like “of course one canot really lose his salvation” or “of course Jesus did not really mean to say man can forgive sins on behalf of God”, or “of course bread is still bread”, etc. When I would comment that the Catholic Church takes these passages literally and has no difficulty explaining them, the reaction would be a polite shrugging of shoulders. I respect those on FR that give a robust debate a try. They are courageous people.
Unitarians are pretty inoffensive in my experience. Plenty of charming-verging-on-dotty WASPs driving 30 year old Volvos, plenty of hug-you-to-death hippies. Not particularly smug or elitist, and self-righteous only if you provoke them.
Beyond that, though, I find the whole UU thing endlessly fascinating — it’s a testament, really, to some people’s deep psychological need for church community and religious identity. Atheists who can’t escape their sentimental bonds to Sunday hymns and after-service coffee, that’s a big part, another big part people who have authentic Christian faith somewhere that nevertheless has been trumped by their liberal politics and moral relativism, with UU being the compromise position.
The irrelevancy of Catholicism as far as church service itself, and it is irrelevant because it's not the belief of the church, does not mean that there aren't interdenominational "accusations" of being Catholic-lite or what-have-you in other areas. I grew up going to a very old church that became Lutheran after having been Moravian and Dutch Reformed over centuries prior. Certain Baptists in particular were very pointed in their criticisms of people who attended that church as being Catholics by another name. I lived that one in a private school run by such Baptists and was told I was going to hell because of it, in front of my classmates by the teacher in charge of daily Bible study.
It just angered me, and I have a disdain for certain Baptists to this day because of such a cruel and pointless thing. My sister experienced it too, she ran from the room crying, ten years old. Much of my father's extended family are themselves Baptist, but not such a strident variety. You'd think Primitive Baptists by their very name would be more severe, and severe they are, to themselves. Christian charity and forgiveness in the world, though. I've learned any number of distinctions that no doubt confuse others coming from a different environment and a different religous background such as Catholicism.
So, I understand why you think as you do, but you're mistaken if you think Protestant churches spent any amount of time denouncing Catholicism from the pulpit. They don't. Out in the world, among competing beliefs, is where that arises, just as it does on Free Republic. Do you debate Protestant beliefs in the course of your mass? I strongly suspect not. Irrelevant again.
Pig-wrestling alert.
The Evil One wouldn't be trying to do his work unless there were still Belivers in the Teachings of Christ there - ( "there" being = on the Not My Side of the Tiber)
I have a tape of it being read aloud by Lewis. He has the most wonderful voice - very deep, very resonant - and the submerged Ulster brogue keeps surging up through the Oxbridge crust. Delightful to hear.
Oh, my, that must be wonderful to hear! I got a CD last Christmas of Dylan Thomas performing "A Child's Christmas in Wales". What a treat!
I attended, as a visitor, Protestant Churches that truly did not seem to care that I was Catholic. In fact, a psstor of that chruch, American Baptist, assisted in marrying us in my Catholic Church. His only comment was “Catholics are Christians too”.
Some, however, were very anti-Catholic. Which doesn’t mean there wasn’t something very attractive about them; I still miss some people I met there, and I would keep in touch better had we not moved away.
Just a fact of life.
The Mass has a fixed structure, and it is not designed for any polemical content. During Easter, there is a point in the extended rite for that great holiday where we pray for all Christians, and then for the Jews (that is the controversial one where we used to pray “for the perfidious Jews” whose blindness we ask God to heal), other non-Christian believers, and finally atheists.
A homily is supposed to link the scripture readings said during the Mass to events and concerns of the day. It is not supposed to be the central point of the Mass; it may be omitted altogether. It is rare but depending on the readings, the priest might find it fit to point out something that separates us from the Protestants. For example, if the reading concerns the Eucharist, the priest is likely to explain the doctrine of the Real Presence and the Transubstantiation, and in that context he might point out that that was the sticking point for the Reformation. But I never heard a homily that would have the debate with Protestantism its central point. However, I can easily soo how when the Reformation was raging on, many an anti-Protestant himily were said.
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