Posted on 05/31/2010 6:33:12 AM PDT by Cronos
1. Where does the Bible claim sola scriptura?
2. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." --> it doesn't say that Scriptura is sufficient, just that it is profitable i.e. helpful. the entire verse from 14 to 17 says "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos = "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works"
3. Where else do we have the term "sola scriptura" in the Bible?
4. Matthew 15 - Jesus condemns corrupt tradition, not all tradition. At no point is the basic notion of traidition condemned
5. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 "So then, brehtern, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter"
6. 1 Timothy 3:14-15
14Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.note that the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth is The Church of the Living God
Ok, so you then AGREE that the fallible Church councils and Patriarchs through the grace of God through His Holy Tradition gave us the compiled canon? You got your Bible through The Church? None of these points however prove that SOLA scriptura is anything but incorrect.
I do not deny that my Lord arose on Sunday because He rested on the Sabbath day in death just as he done in life. There is no contradiction.
The WORD is Christ--and He told His disciples, "He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own, they belong to the Father who sent me. All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (John 14:24-27)
The Bible records the teaching of God as it was given to those who believed in Him--but what gives LIFE to this teaching is not the written words themselves, but the Holy Spirit Christ promises to send to those who believe in Him, and which comes not from the human mind which does the reading of the written word, but from the "mind of God" which sent His WORD to earth in the Jesus the Christ. Paul describes this beautifully in Galatians 4:4--
"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, 'Abba, Father'. So you are no longer a slave [to sin and the law]; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir[of the Kingdom of Heaven]."
To me--without the Holy Spirit's presence in our hearts, given to us "by grace through faith"--the Bible is just another "book". But with the presence of the Holy Spirit in our hearts--and minds--the Bible becomes "living bread!"
And the more we "read, mark, and inwardly digest" that "bread", and allow the Holy Spirit to reign in our hearts and minds, then--as Paul writes in Ephesians 4:14:--
"...we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body [of the church], joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work."
see my post #38
Man shall not live by bread alone. Where does it say that Man shall live by the SCRIPTURES ALONE? Remember that the Word of God is more than just Scriptures.
Exactly, so Sunday is the day of joy and you keep Sabbath Holy. Sabbath was not replaced. That is a day of the Old Covenant and should be kept holy. The Day of Christ’s rising is a symbol of the New Covenant.
1So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
Thanks for not reading the entire post.
How did the prayers get to God?, They were pased on from the Angels that recieved them.
‘Tradition’ like ‘ceremony’ can be either beneficial or harmful. The problem with both is that oftentimes the underlying reason/understanding for either the tradition or ceremony are lost and it becomes “something we’ve always done.”
‘Tradition’ can be likened to language in this regard; it is something that children learn as part of their growing-up. However, literacy and linguistic understanding may be lost if the parent-generation fails to transmit its knowledge to the child-generation. {On the individual level there is also the capability of the child to consider; some will not be able to grasp language as readily as others and may never acquire the ability.} There was an experiment done by an ancient king {Persian, IIRC} who decreed that a certain segment of children (the test group) were not to hear any language spoken for the purpose of discovering what language they would “naturally” speak (and therefore which language was, by nature, superior). The result of this experiment was that the children died. {A surprising outcome that underscores the notion that nature abhors a vacuum, and that it is not possible for language to develop spontaneously.}
Now, keeping that in mind; if God is able to interact with humans, than He can provide the relief from that destructive ‘vacuum of knowledge & understanding’ Himself. The Holy Spirit’s purpose, declared by Jesus in John 14:26 is as follows:
(New International Version)
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
IOW, God Himself, who is spirit and “[...] his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth” [John 4:24], is fully capable of teaching the ‘language’ of Spirit to a believer without human ‘help.’ Remember that Jesus said that God is able to raise up from the stones “children of Abraham,” this was a slap in the face to the pride that some of his fellow-nationals had about being God’s chosen people; like many things that people “take pride in” they tend to actually be responsibilities that are rather somber. {If we as Christians are “Ambassadors for Christ” to this fallen world, then think about the responsibility that entails, think about the impact your actions and attitude have in that capacity; YOU are representing all perfection and all Good to the world.} It’s actually a humbling {and slightly terrifying} thought to consider responsibilities in the context of God’s sovereignty. {As the Psalmist observed: “What is man that Thou art mindful of him?”}
So, my conclusion is that ‘tradition’ is NOT equal to scripture; it is FAR, FAR subordinate to it. Jesus himself said in Mark 2:27, of the ‘biggest’/’longest’ tradition in Judaism: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” This subordinates tradition to man; Jesus shows in His actions that He came for _man_, not ‘tradition;’ and while tradition and ceremony [the feasts and fasts of Judaism] are foreshadowings of that action, that action is NOT dependent on them, but they are dependent on that action.
Mark 2:27 (New International Version)
Then he [Jesus] said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”
Luke 14:5 (New International Version)
Then he asked them, “If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out?”
Really? Could you give the relevant scripture passage? That's a new one on me. My Bible says He came to fulfill the law.
>Im asking about SOLA Scriptura here. Is Scripture ALONE sufficient? Where does Scripture say that?
To be absolutely technical, no scripture alone is not all that is needed... James says that faith w/o works is dead and that “BY works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” [James 2:24]
Jesus and the disciples were supposed to wear a crucifix BEFORE he was crucified? C'mon, the anti's can do better than THAT! That's like asking for an example where George Washington waved the Confederate Battle Flag.
Christ warned His disciples (and us by way of scripture) that traditions of elders of the church might over shadow God’s commandments ~ Matthew 13:3. Christ wasn’t making light of the traditions observed by elders of the church because He followed many of them himself and He taught the disciples to also. Christ taught that tradition should never be on par with scripture. Traditions don’t have God’s authority by themselves. Scripture alone has God’s divine and final authority pertaining to faith.
Somewhat off topic, but...
I submit, for your imagination, the idea of a mingled/hybrid Catholicism & Islam. Imagine it as the one-world-religion endorsed in Revelation (i.e. causing all of humanity to worship the image of the Beast, IIRC).
"As you, for your part, do not worship idols, you have banished the idols and portraits and "bells" from churches, and declared your faith by stating that God Almighty is one and Holy Jesus is His Prophet and Servant, and now, with heart and soul, are seeking and desirous of the true faith; but the faithless one they call Papa does not recognize his Creator as One, ascribing divinity to Holy Jesus (upon him be peace!), and worshiping idols and pictures which he has made with his own hands, thus casting doubt upon the oneness of God and instigating how many servants to that path of error"the military activism of the Ottoman Empire on the southern European front probably was the reason why Lutheranism was able to survive in spite of the opposition of Charles V and reach recognition at the Peace of Augsburg in September 1555
1574 letter of Murad III to the "Members of the Lutheran sect in Flanders and Spain".
"It is part of the Turks holiness, also, that they tolerate no images or pictures and are even holier than our destroyers of images. For our destroyers tolerate, and are glad to have, images on gulden, groschen, rings, and ornaments; but the Turk tolerates none of them and stamps nothing but letters on his coins."
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