Calvin the Soulwinner - What He Said

Cork Free Presbyterian Church ^ | Colin Maxwell

[Frumanchu]

" John Calvin…is looked upon now, of course, a theologian only, but he was really one of the greatest of gospel preachers. When Calvin opened the Book and took a text, you might be sure that he was about to preach "Through grace are ye saved, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." CH SPURGEON (14:216)

Like his dear Lord Jesus, John Calvin has often been wounded in the house of his friends. Some Christians - who should rejoice in his ministry - practically hate him as much as Rome ever did. All manner of things have been spoken and written against him. Often these are without any foundation at all. One such falsehood - and no lie is of the truth (1 John 2:21) - is that Calvin had no burden for souls. He is portrayed as a dry theologian, sitting content in his Ivory Tower in Geneva, indifferent to the souls going to hell round about him.

Below are a few bits and pieces, drawn from his own words, which will let the man speak for himself. There appear to be two John Calvin's on the go. The myth invented by those who reject his theology and feel they must denigrate his person and ministry and the real Calvin of history of whom Spurgeon cried: "That glorious man, Calvin!"

THE SALVATION OF SOULS…MORE PRECIOUS THAN THE WORLD:

"Yet, whatever result may at length follow our efforts, there never will be reason to regret that we showed both pious and grateful obedience to God, and, what we will be able to relieve our sorrow even in the greatest catastrophes, that we faithfully served both the glory of Christ, which is preferable to all the kingdoms of the world, and the salvation of souls, which is more precious than the whole world." (Concerning Scandals. St Andrew Press p.115)

CALVIN BELIEVED WE OUGHT TO BE MOVED WITH COMPASSION IF WE SEE A POOR SOUL GOING TO PERDITION AND DESIRE  GOD TO APPLY THE REMEDY:

"However St. Paul speaks here expressly of the saints or faithful, but this does not imply that we should not pray generally for all men. For the wretched unbelievers and the ignorant have great need to be pleaded for with God; behold them on the way to perdition. If we saw a beast at the point of perishing, we would have pity on it. And what shall we do when we see souls in peril, which are so precious before God, as he has shown in that he has ransomed them with the blood of his own Son? If we see then a poor soul going thus to perdition, ought we not to be moved with compassion and kindness, and should we not desire God to apply the remedy? So then, St. Paul's meaning in this passage is not that we should let the wretched sinners alone without having any care for them. We should pray generally for all men, but he shows at the same time that we ought to have a special care for those whom God has joined to us by a tighter bond." (Calvin's sermon on Ephesians 6:18-19 BOT p684-685)

CALVIN BELIEVED THAT THE GOSPEL WAS TO BE PROCLAIMED TO EVERY MAN - ELECT OR NOT:

"God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, but the ingratitude of the world is the reason why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few." (Synoptic Gospels 1:116)

CALVIN BELIEVED IT TO BE HIS DUTY TO PRAY THAT EVERY MAN WOULD BE SAVED:

"It is our duty to pray for all who trouble us; to desire the salvation of all men." (Comments on Psalms)

"We ought to pray that this and that and every man may be saved and so embrace the whole human race, because we cannot yet distinguish the elect from the reprobate...we pray for the salvation of all whom we know to have been created in God's image and who have the same nature as ourselves; and we leave to God's judgement those whom He knows to be reprobate." (Comments on John 17:9)

CALVIN CARRIED OUT THIS DUTY TO PRAY FOR THE UNSAVED, OFFERING PETITIONS LIKE THIS AFTER HE PREACHED THE GOSPEL:

"That it may please him to grant this grace not only to us but also to all people and Nations of the earth, bringing back all poor ignorant souls from the miserable bondage of errors and darkness, to the right way of salvation, for the doing whereof it may please him to raise up true and faithful ministers of his word that seek not their own profit and vainglory, but only to the advancement of his holy name, etc." (Prayer after his sermon on Galatians 4:8-11)

CALVIN URGED GODLY TEACHERS TO DO THEIR UTMOST TO BRING THE WHOLE WORLD INTO CHRIST'S FOLD:

"It is no small consolation to godly teachers that, although the larger part of the world does not listen to Christ, He has His sheep whom He knows and by whom He is also known. They must do their utmost to bring the whole world into Christ's fold, but when they do not succeed as they would wish, they must be satisfied with the single thought that those who are sheep will be collected together by their work." (Comment on John 10:27)

CALVIN RECOGNISED THAT WE MUST LABOUR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO BRING THE LOST TO SALVATION

"Thus we may see what St. Paul’s meaning is when he saith, God will have His grace made known to all the world, and His gospel preached to all creatures. Therefore, we must endeavour, as much as possible, to persuade those who are strangers to the faith, and seem to be utterly deprived of the goodness of God, to accept of salvation. Jesus Christ is not only a Saviour of few, but He offereth Himself to all. As often as the gospel is preached to us, we ought to consider that God calleth us to Him: and if we attend to this call, it shall not be in vain, neither shall it be lost labour…"Therefore, we may be so much the more assured that God taketh and holdeth us for His children, if we endeavour to bring those to Him who are afar off. Let us comfort ourselves, and take courage in this our calling: although there be at this day a great forlornness, though we seem to be miserable creatures, utterly cast away and condemned, yet we must labour as much as possible to draw those to salvation who seem to be afar off. And above all things, let us pray to God for them, waiting patiently till it please Him to show His good will toward them, as He hath shown it to us." (Sermon on 1 Timothy 2:3-5)

CALVIN SAID: IT'S NOT ENOUGH JUST FOR US TO BE SAVED…KNOWLEDGE OF GOD MUST BE UNIVERSAL:

"Seeing that God has given us such a treasure and so inestimable a thing as His Word, we must employ ourselves as much as we can, that it may be kept safe and sound and not perish. And let every man be sure to lock it up securely in his own heart. But it is not enough to have an eye to his own salvation, but the knowledge of God must shine generally throughout the whole world."(Sermon on 1 Timothy 2:3)

CALVIN WARNED AGAINST BEING FAINTHEARTED IN GOSPEL PREACHING:

"Nothing is more contrary to the pure and free preaching of the gospel than the straits of a faint heart."(Comments on Acts 18:9)

CALVIN SOUGHT NEVER TO BE WEARY OF GOSPEL WORK, RIDICULING THE THOUGHT THAT EXILE, FLIGHT OR MARTYRDOM SHOULD HINDER HIM:

"Therefore, if we desire to be counted their brethren, let us prick forward ourselves so diligently, that no fear or bitterness of cross discourage us, but that we go forward in showing forth the profession of faith; and that we never be weary of furthering the doctrine of Christ; for it is an absurd thing that exile and flight, which are the first exercises of martyrdom, should make us dumb and fainthearted."(Comments on Acts 8:4)

CALVIN SAW THE LACK OF EVANGELISM AS A FIGURATIVE LEAVING OF CHRIST IN THE TOMB AND INDICATED AN UNTHANKFUL SPIRIT:

"If the gospel be not preached, Jesus Christ is, as it were, buried. Therefore, let us stand as witnesses, and do Him this honour, when we see all the world so far out of the way; and remain steadfast in this wholesome doctrine…Let us here observe that St. Paul condemns our unthankfulness, if we be so unfaithful to God, as not to bear witness of His gospel; seeing He hath called us to it." (Sermon on 2 Timothy 1:8-9)

CALVIN BELIEVED IN WINNING JEWS TO THE OBEDIENCE OF THE GOSPEL AND HAD A STRATEGY TO DO:

"Yea and when we have to do with any Jews, which are not acquainted with our customs, and that we go about to win them and draw them to the obedience of the Gospel: we must for a time (in being conversant with them) abstain from the things which they think to be foresended [prohibited]." (Sermon on Galatians 2:6-8)

CALVIN GIVES ADVICE ON HOW TO USE THE REBUKE IN THE WINNING OF SOULS:

"In that place then he did beat down the Galatians, because they exalted themselves, and did as it were set up their bristles [show fight] against God, through their lustiness. And now he reacheth them his hand, and lifteth them up again, and telleth them that after they have once felt and perceived their faults, they must not yet for all that think themselves utterly shut out from God, and from all hope of salvation. But this cannot be done except we have a carefulness to draw sinners to salvation. For many men will be vehement enough, and they shall have just cause so to do: but yet in the meanwhile their rigorousness will be so excessive, as it shall shut up men’s hearts, and make them take such stomach against the bitterness that is used towards them, that they shall cast themselves utterly out of order, yea and conceive a hatred against God and his word. Howbeit, they that are so oversharp will say they have just cause. Yea, but yet for all that, they which rebuke sin in the name of God, must always have a care and desire to bring those to salvation, which were in the highway to destruction. When they be so minded, no doubt but they will labuor to win such as were out of the right way, and to make them perceive that they seek their welfare, and that although their rebukings be grievous, yet they fail not to be for their behoove [advantage]." (Sermon on Galatians 4:11-14)

ANXIOUS FOR THE SALVATION OF ALL:

"Thus our undoubted course of action is to be anxious for all, as far as we can, but because it has not be granted to us to save those whom God has destined for destruction, 'what is perishing, let it perish' (Zechariah 11:9)"(Concerning Scandals. St Andrew Press p.118)

CALVIN'S FAITH IN THE SOVEREIGN PURPOSES OF GOD DID NOT RULE OUT HIS RECOGNITION OF THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PREACHER :

"It is enough for us to bear this only in mind, that the gospel does not fall like rain from the clouds, but is brought by the hands of men wherever it is sent from above… But hence we also learn how much ought all good men to desire, and how much they ought to value the preaching of the gospel, which is thus commended to us by the mouth of the Lord himself. Nor is there indeed a doubt, but that God has thus highly spoken of the incomparable value of this treasure, for the purpose of awakening the minds of all, so that they may anxiously desire it. Take feet, by metonymy, for coming." (Comments on Romans 10:14)

CALVIN RECOGNISED THAT GOD USUALLY EMPLOYED PREACHERS TO BUILD HIS CHURCH INSTEAD OF BRINGING SINNERS IN BY USING SECRET INFLUENCES:

"This points out to us also the ordinary method of collecting a Church, which is, by the outward voice of men; for though God might bring each person to himself by a secret influence, yet he employs the agency of men, that he may awaken in them an anxiety about the salvation of each other." (Comments on Isaiah 2:3)

CALVIN TAUGHT THAT THE GODLY ARE TO USE ALL MEANS TO WIN OVER THOSE STILL WITHOUT THE GOSPEL AND ALIENS TO THE FLOCK AND BESTOW SO MUCH LABOUR UPON THEM:

"Having said, "Not forsaking the assembling together," he adds, But exhorting one another; by which he intimates that all the godly ought by all means possible to exert themselves in the work of gathering together the Church on every side; for we are called by the Lord on this condition, that every one should afterwards strive to lead others to the truth, to restore the wandering to the right way, to extend a helping hand to the fallen, to win over those who are without. But if we ought to bestow so much labour on those who are yet aliens to the flock of Christ, how much more diligence is required in exhorting the brethren whom God has already joined to us?" (Comments on Hebrews 10:25)

CALVIN TAUGHT THAT GOD USES OUR EXERTIONS IN GOSPEL PREACHING GOSPEL AND THAT WE, GOD'S INSTRUMENTS, PREACH BY HIS COMMAND:

"Again, when Christ says, not that the ministers of the word sow, but that he alone sows, this is not without meaning; for though this cannot be supposed to be restricted to his person, yet as he makes use of our exertions, and employs us as his instruments, for cultivating his field, so that He alone acts by us and in us, he justly claims for himself what is, in some respects, common to his ministers. Let us, therefore, remember, that the Gospel is preached, not only by Christ’s command, but by his authority. and direction; in short, that we are only his hand, and that He alone is the Author of the work." (Comments on Matthew 13:37)

CALVIN USED DAVID'S EXAMPLE TO INTIMATE THAT HAVING PARTAKEN OF GOD'S MERCY OURSELVES, WE ARE BECOME HERALDS OF IT OURSELVES:

"In another place we find him declaring that a new song had been put in his mouth, (Psalm 40:3,) and it seems to be in this sense that he here desires his lips to be opened. He again signifies the gratitude which he would feel, and which he would express, intimating, that he sought the mercy of God with no other view than that he might become the herald of it to others. My mouth, he says emphatically, shall show forth thy praise." (Comments on Psalm 51:16)

CALVIN REGARDED THE DISREGARDING OF EVANGELISM AS INCONSISTENT WITH SAVING FAITH AND BELIEVED THAT THE GREATER A MAN'S EMINENCE…THE MORE DILIGENTLY HE WAS TO LABOUR:

"And shall say, Come. By these words he first declares that the godly will be filled with such an ardent desire to spread the doctrines of religion, that every one not satisfied with his own calling and his personal knowledge will desire to draw others along with him. And indeed nothing could be more inconsistent with the nature of faith than that deadness which would lead a man to disregard his brethren, and to keep the light of knowledge choked up within his own breast. The greater the eminence above others which any man has received from his calling so much the more diligently ought he to labour to enlighten others." (Comments on Isaiah 2:3)

CALVIN URGED HUSBANDS WHO ARE SAVED TO LABOUR LONG AND HARD, UNSPARINGLY AND BY EVERY MEANS TO BRING THEIR UNSAVED WIVES TO THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL AS A MATTER OF URGENCY:

"If a man whose marriage has occurred under the tyranny of the papacy is constrained to withdraw from the papal church on the grounds that he is prevented from serving God as faithfully and purely as he ought, I would first of all advise him to win over his wife that she might be in accord with him. For since he is her head, it is right for him to lead her in the way of salvation insofar as he possibly can.

For this reason it is improper for a Christian man, under the guise of following the gospel, to abandon his wife. Rather let him strive by every means to draw her to the Lord Jesus in order that both of them may obey Him with a common accord. Indeed let him do so not simply once, but let him continue to draw her, even though he might find her obstinate and rebellious. Let him do so unsparingly, and in making it his duty to teach and exhort her, let him ask God to touch her with His Spirit, for such is necessary, or all his labour will be in vain.

If one asks how long a husband ought to persevere in this manner, I cannot assign a period. I can only advise him to proceed as worthily and zealously as possible, so that day by day, he might advance a little more and as much as God validates such effort." (Letter of Calvin reproduced in "Calvin's Ecclesiastical Advice" T&T Clark p.60-61)

Likewise Calvin urged a Christian wife to strive to bring her unsaved Roman Catholic husband to faith in Jesus Christ:

Where the two parties consent, it is especially fitting for the Christian wife to double her efforts to be submissive to her husband - here regarded as an enemy of the truth - in order to win him if at all possible, as St. Peter advises in 1 Peter 3:1. Nevertheless, as matters stand today in the papal church, a believing wife ought not to relinquish her hope without striving and trying to direct her husband toward the road of salvation." (Letter of Calvin reproduced in "Calvin's Ecclesiastical Advice" T&T Clark p.132)

CALVIN SAW IT AS A CHRISTIAN DUTY TO BE LIKE A BURNING LAMP, ENDEAVOURING TO DRAW MEN WHO ARE ESTRANGED FROM GOD AND HIS TRUTH:

"Generally, because we have the gospel freely preached here among us, and because we ought everywhere to be like a burning lamp to show the way of salvation [John 5:35] And particularly, by every man discharging his own duty that we give no cause of offence to our neighbours, but rather endeavour to draw to us those are estranged from God and his truth." (Sermon on Ephesians 4:6-8 BOT p340)

CALVIN SAID IT WAS TRULY THE PRINCIPLE THING TO SHOW MEN THE WAY OF SALVATION:

"It is true that the principle thing we have to look to is to teach the ignorant and to show them the way of salvation." (Sermon on Ephesians 4:29-30 BOT p463)

CALVIN SAID WE OUGHT TO PROMOTE THE SALVATION OF OUR NEIGHBOURS:

"Now if we ought to promote the salvation of our neighbours, and also their temporal benefit and welfare, what will be thought of it if we wickedly seduce them and quench and abolish in them all fear of God?" (Sermon on Ephesians 4:29-30 BOT p463)

CALVIN BELIEVED WE WERE ENLIGHTENED BY GOD SO THAT WE WOULD ENDEAVOUR TO SHOW LIGHT TO THE UNSAVED:

"What therefore in effect we have to bear in mind is that God's enlightening of us is in order that she should no more be plunged into darkness, but that, being enlightened by Him, we should endeavour to give light to poor unbelievers who wander and reel and stumble as though they would break their necks, for they are poor brute beasts." (Sermons on Ephesians 5:8-11 BOT p513)

CALVIN BELIEVED THAT AN INFINITE NUMBER OF BELIEVERS WAS HIGHLY DESIRABLE:

"Now there is nothing in this world to be desired more than to see the church grow and have an infinite number of believers." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p318)

CALVIN BELIEVED WE MUST DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO DRAW PEOPLE TO GOD:

... "In this passage we see that in the church, where there were still apostles, dissatisfaction had arisen because the numbers had grown. That does not mean we must not do everything we possibly can to draw people to God." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p318)

CALVIN URGED HIS PEOPLE  TO WORK TOP WIN THE WHOLE WORLD TO GOD THROUGH TUMULT AND TOIL:

"So even though we have tumult and toil, let us do as we are commanded and work to win the whole world to God and bring it in obedience unto him." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p318)

CALVIN DESIRED THAT THE GOSPEL BE EXTENDED AND INCREASED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD

"Therefore we must do as much [as the unswerving apostles] and desire especially that the gospel be extended and increased throughout the whole world." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p319)

CALVIN URGED HIS PEOPLE TO PREACH THE GOSPEL WITH SUCH DILIGENCE THAT IT WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE:

"Now we know that God prizes nothing above his honour, which lies mainly in men's knowing him and poor souls' being brought to salvation. So let us not be surprised if our Lord wants his gospel to be proclaimed with such diligence that nothing can hinder its course. For the only way men can come to salvation is through instruction in what the Bible teaches. Now since this is God's will, let us follow it." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p325)

CALVIN SAW THAT THE ANSWER TO DIFFICULTIES IN GOSPEL PREACHING LAY IN BEING ENCOURAGED TO PRAY:

"It is very important for us to be aware that the more we understand how difficult it is to get everybody to acknowledge God as they should and how difficult it is to bring about the preaching of the gospel, the more we must be encouraged to pray that God will be pleased to give his word power..." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p325) 

CALVIN URGED DILIGENCE IN FAITHFUL GOSPEL PREACHING, WITH ZEAL AND BURNING DESIRE SO THAT EVERYONE WOULD BE SAVED:

"Let that then stir us and prod us to be even more diligent. For this is no small matter. First, we must proclaim God's word faithfully without adding anything of our own to it. We must have zeal and burning desire that everyone be brought to the knowledge of God for his forgiveness and for salvation." (Sermons on Acts 1-7 BOT p327)

[Frumanchu]

Reposting of an old classic that Gamecock shared back in 2005. Enjoy! :)

[BereanBrain]

Michael Servetus

[BereanBrain]

John Calvin - what he wrote

A Response To Questions and Objections of a Certain Jew

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from “Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio,” by John Calvin; The Jew in Christian Theology, Gerhard Falk, McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, NC and London, 1931.

[Buddygirl]

Who is Michael Servetus?

[Frumanchu]

Michael Servetus was an anti-trinitarian heretic who was burned for heresy in Geneva several hundred years ago. He is also the favorite strawman argument of those who despise John Calvin. It’s a virtual guarantee that his name is brought up any time Calvin’s is in an attempt to discredit the man.

[Frumanchu]

The Servetus Card: because debate is hard.

[BereanBrain]

And how does God view the sinner?

2 Peter 3:9

It is a dangerous business to pretend you understand which people God is “finished” with.

Thus is born the roots of “replacement theology”. Unfortunately, although even John Calvin as against it, today it is far too common in the “Calvinistic” circles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

I have met *lots* of true blue Presbyterians - those who are Calvinists first and Christians second almost *always* hate the Jew, and rail against Israel.

Maybe they thing God has forgotten his promises to Israel, or has replaced them. We should love the Jewish nation like we love anyone else - realizing we too - like they, are the prodigal son and only through God’s amazing grace are we reconciled.

[BereanBrain]

The man speaks for himself

John Calvin - what he wrote

A Response To Questions and Objections of a Certain Jew

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.

Excerpt from “Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio,” by John Calvin; The Jew in Christian Theology, Gerhard Falk, McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, NC and London, 1931.

[RnMomof7]

I do not know how many presbyterians you know..but I know many as I am one.. I have never heard anyone say they hate jews or not to pray for them ..

Calvin was a man of his time.. he was not infallible

[Frumanchu]

Thanks, I got it the first time. Once was enough.

Since we're apparently using Wikipedia as a source:

Scholars agree, however, that it is important to distinguish between Calvin's views toward the biblical Jews and his attitude toward contemporary Jews. In his theology, Calvin demonstrates unusual tolerance as he does not differentiate between God's covenant with the Jews and the New Covenant. He states, "all the children of the promise, reborn of God, who have obeyed the commands by faith working through love, have belonged to the New Covenant since the world began." Hence, he broke from the medieval tradition of using exegetical studies of the Old Testament for the purpose of anti-semitic attacks.

[BereanBrain]

the wikipedia article will outline his run-in with John Calvin, who turned him in, and his demise at the stake.

Not defending anti-trinitarism, but defending the ability to be wrong in an argument without being burned at the stake.

I believe in the Trinity, but is *is* a hard concept to arrive at (unless you really believe what Romans 1:20 says)

[Frumanchu]

Calvin was a man of his time.. he was not infallible

Exactly. The purpose of the OP was in refutation of the notion that Calvin in particular was opposed to the notion of widespread and indiscriminate evangelism...NOT to demonstrate Calvin as an infallible historical figure.

[BereanBrain]

the qoute you used from wiki is from people who want to backfill on Calvin’s actions......

The quote I supplied was from Calvin’s own works.

Why do Calvinists continually quote Calvin? Did I not get the memo that declared him an oracle or prophet?

Why do I need anything other than the Bible? What happend to Sola Scriptura?
Why do I need Calvin? If Five Point Calvinism is a clearly derived belief from the bible, why do I have to “teach” it?

What teaching of Calvin is “good news”?

[BereanBrain]

Human Fallibility is one thing...Hating Jews *is* the mark of the beast.

[Augustinian monk]

Just curious, how do you feel about states that had/have laws on their books that made homosexuality a crime. Thus, punishing people for who they choose to “love”.

[BereanBrain]

(1) do not confuse the state and religion.
All that is legal, is not moral, and what is moral may (or may not) be legal

(2) words mean something. You used the word “love”. Not sex.
Did you mean to say the state was trying to outlaw homosexual love or homosexual sex?

(3) In a perfect world, sin would not exist. It does, that’s why we have laws.

[BereanBrain]

and so, turnabout is fair play, so my question to you..

Do you equate anti-semitism with homophobia?

[Alex Murphy]

Michael Servetus

Do you believe in the Trinity, BB? Michael Servetus didn't.

"....That Jesus, surnamed Christ, was not a Hypostasis but a human being is taught both by the early Fathers and in Scriptures, taken in their literal sense, and is indicated by the miracles he wrought. He, and not the Word, is also the miraculously born Son of God in fleshly form, as the Scriptures teach - not a hypostasis, but an actual Son. The Holy Spirit as a third person of the Godhead is unknown in Scripture. It is not a separate being, but an activity of God himself. The doctrine of the Trinity can be neither established by logic nor proved from Scriptures, and is in fact inconceivable."
-- Quotation from Michael Servetus, in the thread On the Errors of the Trinity

"....For many, Servetus is the ultimate example of the intolerance and cruelty of Calvin. I have no desire to try to justify the persecution or execution of heretics, but in fairness to Calvin the Servetus episode must be seen in historical context. Servetus denied the doctrine of the Trinity, and that was a capital crime almost everywhere in Europe. When Servetus came to Geneva, he had already been sentenced to death in France. Calvin had warned Servetus by letter not to come to Geneva because of his views. After Servetus was arrested, Calvin and other ministers tried to convince him that his views of the Trinity were unbiblical. Servetus was put on trial before a civil court in Geneva. Calvin was the prosecutor in the trial, but was not one of the judges. Calvin agreed that Servetus should be executed, but unsuccessfully asked that he be beheaded instead of burned alive.

Almost all Europeans in Calvin's day believed that heresy was as dangerous as the plague and that civil governments had the obligation to eradicate it. Calvin was a man of his time on this matter. He is not to be excused for this reason, but he must be seen as holding views that most others of his time held. The case of Servetus provides no evidence that Calvin was unusually cruel or intolerant. Rather he like most others believed the civil government had a responsibility to protect the public from false religion, even by using its coercive powers."
-- from the thread Man of His Time for All Times: W. Robert Godfrey paints portrait of Calvin as pilgrim and pastor

You appear to be arguing, through your dead-and-unrepentent-means-unelect conclusion that Christ only forgives past sins, and any "commited-but-unrepented-of" sins are capable of severing our salvific relationship with Christ (losing one's salvation)? It's also conceivable that you're asserting that our salvation is actually never granted to us in this lifetime, more specifically the belief that forgiveness/righteousness is not actually imputed to us in this lifetime, so make sure to wipe your feet one last time before kicking the bucket? You know, there are schools of theology that actually believe one (or both) of these positions. Do you? If not, why do you believe they are applicable to Calvin and not you? Or did that page fall out of my Beckett's Clarence Larkin "Plan of the Ages" Plan-of-the-Month Club collectable fact cards with free stickers and free binder?

Or, are you arguing for a new interpretation of Mark 3:29, namely that it's actually a prophecy pointing to October 27, 1553, and that the execution of the man Servetus was the one "unforgivable sin" that Jesus spoke of?

If that's not your theology, or to be more specific if that's not the Biblical teaching re forgiveness, death, and judgement, why are you arguing from it against Calvin?
-- Alex Murphy, September 15 2005

On the Errors of the Trinity [by Michael Servetus]
Arminius's Christology
Phillip Schaff's History of the Christian Church, CHAPTER XVI: SERVETUS: HIS LIFE. OPINIONS, TRIAL, AND EXECUTION
The Execution of Servetus for blasphemy, heresy and Obstinate AnaBaptism
An Open Letter to Dr. William Estep, by Roger Nicole

[Frumanchu]

the qoute you used from wiki is from people who want to backfill on Calvin’s actions......
The quote I supplied was from Calvin’s own works

Umm...the quote included a quotation directly from Calvin's Institutes. Hence the quotation marks? You did check the footnotes right?

As far as the quote you provided, why don't you link us to the full text of Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio so that we can see the actual context of the quote? Calvin's Institutes are certainly abundantly available, but conveniently the text from which your quote is excerpted is not available anywhere. In fact, the only Google hits you'll get on it are regurgitations of the same quotation...never any presentation of the context. So please don't act as though you have the academic high ground on this one, friend...you don't.

Why do Calvinists continually quote Calvin? Did I not get the memo that declared him an oracle or prophet?

Gee, it sorta seems reasonable to quote a person when you're explaining or defending the writings or teachings of that person. But by logical extension, I suppose we should never quote any Christian theologian, preacher or evangelist because none of them are declared "an oracle or prophet."

As any confessional Calvinist should tell you, John Calvin's words are not in and of themselves binding upon the conscience. I do not worship John Calvin, nor is he the Lord of my life.

Why do I need anything other than the Bible? What happend to Sola Scriptura?

By this argument you demonstrate quite clearly that you have no clue what the historical doctrine of sola scriptura actually is.

Why do I need Calvin? If Five Point Calvinism is a clearly derived belief from the bible, why do I have to “teach” it?

You just got done stating that the doctrine of the trinity is "a hard concept to arrive at" and then you ask questions like this? Friend, your arguments are becoming contradictory.

What teaching of Calvin is “good news”?

Spoken like a person who has clearly not read Calvin's Institutes. I suppose it would surprise you to know that his treatment on predestination comprises only a very small portion of the Institutes. The so-called "Five Points of Calvinism" were not even put forth by Calvin himself. They are a summation of the response to the five points of the Remonstrants submitted by the followers of Arminius.