Posted on 07/20/2010 2:21:39 AM PDT by GonzoII
“There’s not a single verse in the NT that identifies anyone except Jesus as a (biological) son or daughter of Mary.”
Hello? Matthew 13:55
Deny the obvious at your own peril.
“Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Salvation is by faith alone.”
I said that its BY Grace alone, THROUGH Faith alone and I left the passage for you to check for yourself. Ephesians 2:8-9
Why do you (several of you actually) put words in my statement that I never said?
Ephesians 2:8-9 8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
“Mary was immaculately conceived”
Where is this in scripture?
“Where is this in scripture?”
Where in scripture is it that it has to be explicitly in scripture?
So you did. But the disagreement between Protestants and Catholics/Orthodox is not about whether Salvation is by Grace alone but whether we are justified by faith alone or if the acts of charity (I’ll use this phrase to distinguish them from works of law) actually can increase our justification.
Catholics believe these acts are initiated by grace and that we by reason of our free will may respond to this grace. But they are not to our merit because the grace which inspired them comes from God and not out of our own hearts.
It also has to do with the Reformed teaching of imputed righteousness vs Catholic/Orthodox teaching of infused righteousness. Catholics do not believe in a forensic justification.
Writings on which are numerous to give anybody and major headache.
So that is why I put words in your statement to clarify just what the debate is. It was not my intent in any way to dismiss or belittle your comments.
“Where in scripture is it that it has to be explicitly in scripture?”
It appears your mincing words. It doesn’t have to be explicit and I didn’t mean to ask for an explicit statement. What I’m looking for simply is where do you find this in scripture? As in the Trinity which is not explicitly taught but can easily be found in scripture if one were to look.
The scripture verses I find pertinent are as follows:
Galatians 1:8-9 8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
You wrote:
“It appears your mincing words.”
Nope. I am pointing out something that is extremely important. If someone is going to rely on sola scriptura then it makes perfect sense for someone to question sola scriptura. If sola scriptura is not found in scripture, then it is self-refuting.
“It doesn’t have to be explicit and I didn’t mean to ask for an explicit statement. What I’m looking for simply is where do you find this in scripture? As in the Trinity which is not explicitly taught but can easily be found in scripture if one were to look.”
Sorry, but you’re still using sola scriptura. Do you believe the Gospel of Matthew is inspired? Where is that in the Bible? Where in the Bible does it say Matthew wrote a gospel?
“The scripture verses I find pertinent are as follows:
Galatians 1:8-9 8)”
We preach the same gospel as St. Paul. What we don’t do is assume that all truths are written explicitly in scripture. Neither do you, but logically you can’t admit that whenever it comes to a Catholic doctrine.
“Jude 1:3”
Again, that doesn’t contradict anything taught by the Church.
“2 Timothy 3:16-17 16)”
This is not a proof text for sola scriptura. It says that scripture is inspired. It never mentions anything like sola scriptura.
Again, how do you know Matthew’s gospel is inspired? How do you know Matthew wrote it?
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