Posted on 07/25/2010 1:37:12 PM PDT by betty boop
‘Nevertheless they all signed it and therefore gave their consent to the wording, which has no Christ, no triune God or even the word God in it. It’s a deist document. It’s not a Christian document. Period.’
By that argument, none of the signers of the Declaration were Christians. Including the Roman Catholic Charles Carroll of Carrollton.
They all learned how to read from the same textbook which defines very specifically the Judeo/Christian God as "Creator" - and then in the Declaration of Independence they use the word "Creator" and you propose two centuries later that they meant something else.
You may qualify for appointment to the Federal bench by the Obama administration.
The letter John Adams wrote is as clear as it can be. It unmistakeably says that the "Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".
In other words, the Government of the United States is not a theocratic government; it is not influenced by or based on, or promoting Christian (or any other) religion because this country was not implicity or explciitly defined as a Christian nation in the Declaration of Independence, nor is her Constitution in any way, shape or form identified with any religion or deity.
What is a christian?...
This is such tomfoolery. The Founders did not want to specifically mention the Triune God of Christianity. They could have but they chose not to.
You may qualify for appointment to the Federal bench by the Obama administration
Reaching real low now, aren't you? Desparation?
Which you have just managed to make even more interesting, dear YHAOS!
Wow. Your evidence here is on-point excellent.
Thank you ever so much for this invaluable/priceless contribution to the present dialogue!
No that's not the argument. For reasons known to them, they chose not to identify the newly independent country with any specific deity/religion.
With due respect, kosta, I think you find what you want to find and see what you want to see.
DING! DING! DING!
AND THE AWARD OF THE DAY FOR DISCERNMENT GOES CLEARLY TO
YHAOS.
However, given that it was such an easy call, the trophy shall be made out of gilded paper mache.
LOL.
Oh my-o-my-o-my!!!! Yikes, I think so too!!!! [Loved the way you said it.]
But "whar the hail" is kosta in these proceedings? Has he nothing to say? Unfortunately, he is often/usually short on evidence. I hope that will not be a problem this time.
Thank you for your encouragement, dearest sister in Christ!
A-G: Either you need to back this up with contemporary documents or else you are reading their minds
LOL! Are you implying they were forced? I am presuming that if they were free enough to declare independence from King George, they were free enough to write their Declaration as they wanted it to read.
Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
in which case your qualifications for a Federal bench appointment by the Obama administration just went up another notch.
If this wasn't idiotic it would be funny. Just because I don't agree with you makes me fit for appointment by the Obama administration? That's truly pathetic.
The letter which Adams wrote to the Moslem was a diplomatic document, that is, he was LYING for his country, like any good diplomat.
Thanks for posting this Betty Boop. You and Alamo Girl post some of the best orginal content to digest on the site. Thanks again.
The following are from Paine's Age of Reason:
Did the book called the Bible excel in purity of ideas and expression all the books now extant in the world, I would not take it for my rule of faith, as being the Word of God; because the possibility would nevertheless exist of my being imposed upon. But when I see throughout the greatest part of this book scarcely anything but a history of the grossest vices, and a collection of the most paltry and contemptible tales, I cannot dishonour my Creator by calling it by his name.
. . . .
THUS much for the Bible; I now go on to the book called the New Testament. The new Testament! that is, the 'new' Will, as if there could be two wills of the Creator.
. . . .
Had it been the object or the intention of Jesus Christ to establish a new religion, he would undoubtedly have written the system himself, or procured it to be written in his life time. But there is no publication extant authenticated with his name. All the books called the New Testament were written after his death. He was a Jew by birth and by profession; and he was the son of God in like manner that every other person is; for the Creator is the Father of All.
. . . .
If we take a survey of our own world, or rather of this, of which the Creator has given us the use as our portion in the immense system of creation, we find every part of it, the earth, the waters, and the air that surround it, filled, and as it were crouded with life, down from the largest animals that we know of to the smallest insects the naked eye can behold, and from thence to others still smaller, and totally invisible without the assistance of the microscope. Every tree, every plant, every leaf, serves not only as an habitation, but as a world to some numerous race, till animal existence becomes so exceedingly refined, that the effluvia of a blade of grass would be food for thousands.
. . . .
Having now arrived at this point, if we carry our ideas only one thought further, we shall see, perhaps, the true reason, at least a very good reason for our happiness, why the Creator, instead of making one immense world, extending over an immense quantity of space, has preferred dividing that quantity of matter into several distinct and separate worlds, which we call planets, of which our earth is one. But before I explain my ideas upon this subject, it is necessary (not for the sake of those that already know, but for those who do not) to show what the system of the universe is.
. . . .
As therefore the Creator made nothing in vain, so also must it be believed that be organized the structure of the universe in the most advantageous manner for the benefit of man; and as we see, and from experience feel, the benefits we derive from the structure of the universe, formed as it is, which benefits we should not have had the opportunity of enjoying if the structure, so far as relates to our system, had been a solitary globe, we can discover at least one reason why a plurality of worlds has been made, and that reason calls forth the devotional gratitude of man, as well as his admiration.
. . . .
Our ideas, not only of the almightiness of the Creator, but of his wisdom and his beneficence, become enlarged in proportion as we contemplate the extent and the structure of the universe. The solitary idea of a solitary world, rolling or at rest in the immense ocean of space, gives place to the cheerful idea of a society of worlds, so happily contrived as to administer, even by their motion, instruction to man. We see our own earth filled with abundance; but we forget to consider how much of that abundance is owing to the scientific knowledge the vast machinery of the universe has unfolded.
. . . .
BUT, in the midst of those reflections, what are we to think of the christian system of faith that forms itself upon the idea of only one world, and that of no greater extent, as is before shown, than twenty-five thousand miles. An extent which a man, walking at the rate of three miles an hour for twelve hours in the day, could he keep on in a circular direction, would walk entirely round in less than two years. Alas! what is this to the mighty ocean of space, and the almighty power of the Creator!
. . . .
The fact however, as distinct from the operating cause, is not a mystery, because we see it; and we know also the means we are to use, which is no other than putting the seed in the ground. We know, therefore, as much as is necessary for us to know; and that part of the operation that we do not know, and which if we did, we could not perform, the Creator takes upon himself and performs it for us. We are, therefore, better off than if we had been let into the secret, and left to do it for ourselves.
. . . .
To be happy in old age it is necessary that we accustom ourselves to objects that can accompany the mind all the way through life, and that we take the rest as good in their day. The mere man of pleasure is miserable in old age; and the mere drudge in business is but little better: whereas, natural philosophy, mathematical and mechanical science, are a continual source of tranquil pleasure, and in spite of the gloomy dogmas of priests, and of superstition, the study of those things is the study of the true theology; it teaches man to know and to admire the Creator, for the principles of science are in the creation, and are unchangeable, and of divine origin.
The charges Jefferson was an infidel, a Jacobin, a deist and/or an atheist were made by Jefferson's Federalist opposition in 1800 and 1804. To them, he was all those things. They were neo-Calvinists, the last of the Puritans. Oliver Wolcott, who signed both the DOI and Articles of Confederation wanted the north to pull out of the union if Jefferson were elected President. But Christian clergy who were for Jefferson gave sermons refuting those charges. Jefferson was a heretic but he was a Christian heretic. Anti-trinitarians were common at the time. Harvard was full of them. Yale went the other way, into Neo-Calvinism In 1804 Jefferson even hired a minister, David Allen, to go to Federalist Connecticut and preach that if Jefferson were re-elected, Jesus Christ would return to earth.
One would have to be spiritually blind to trust the Freemason Thomas Paine- who tried to make Freemasonry out to be similar to Christianity.
From Thomas Paine...
“The christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun”
“As the study and contemplation of the Creator [is] in the works of the creation, the Sun, as the great visible agent of that Being, was the visible object of the adoration of Druids; all their religious rites and ceremonies had reference to the apparent progress of the Sun through the twelve signs of the Zodiac, and his influence upon the earth.”
“The worship of the Sun as the great visible agent of a great invisible first cause, “Time without limits,” spread itself over a considerable part of Asia and Africa, from thence to Greece and Rome, through all ancient Gaul, and into Britain and Ireland.
Smith, in his chapter on the antiquity of Masonry in Britain, says, that “notwithstanding the obscurity which envelopes Masonic history in that country, various circumstances contribute to prove that Free-Masonry was introduced into Britain about 1030 Years before Christ.”
Writings of Thomas Paine published by G.P. Putnam’s Sons in 1896.
Thank you so much for your encouragement, dear Captain Beyond!
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