Posted on 07/29/2010 8:41:18 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Accumulating Wrath…Romans 2 Posted on July 30, 2010 by billrandles
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:(Romans 2;5-6)
Romans opens with the warning of Judgment, first against those who “suppress the truth ” that they know about God, the godless. Holy wrath is already being revealed against them, in that they are being given over to moral confusion, degrading lusts, and reprobation.
But wrath is also being revealed against moralistic man. He is (rightly) disgusted by the personal and social disintegration that is the fruit of godlessness.
Some semblance of godliness, religion, morals, various ‘forms of godliness’ have kept him from the boundary- less insanity of pure relativism. Even a cursory acknowledgment of God, and of the moral order, enriches and elevates life in ways very few even recognise.
But according to Paul ,such people get the wrong message from this. They actually think that they can escape the judgment of God, because they haven’t been drowning in degeneracy, as the godless are.
Secondly they think that the advantages they have over the manifestly degenerate, are tokens that they are on the right track and don’t need to be saved from God’s wrath.They misinterpret the kindness and forbearance of God towards them.
Paul called it “despising the riches of Hs goodness”,not realising that such blessings on their life, as stable marriages, children, and prosperity, are not necessarily Divine approval but Divine kindness and forbearance; God is giving the ‘moral’ also a chance to repent!
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?(Romans 2:4)
The kindness is in just letting us live long enough to think about God, and not striking us down as we deserve. God gives us another chance to turn to Him!
It is actually easier in a sense for the openly godless, to come to the point where they see that they need God.This is because the way Go deals with them is by accelerating the destruction of their lives,giving them over to hurtful lusts.
But Wrath is accumulating over the heads of those who Tssk Tssked the godless and their degeneracy, and assumed that they themselves have no need of salvation, because they aren’t as bad as the others.But as God said in the Psalms, All day Long God is angry at the wicked.
Paul calls them out as having “hardness of heart” and for being “Impenitant”.This is because the ‘moralist’ will not see his own need for God, divine forgiveness, or the fact that He does he same things that the godless does, in his heart.
The truth is that all of us are capable of any depth of degeneracy that we see in others. it is the very kindness of God that we have not been given over openly and fully to our lusts.
As with the godless, wrath comes to the moralist also as a direct result of the refusal to acknowledge God, and the need for God’s forgiveness and reconciliation.
Judgment will be according to truth, that means that even the best person can not endure it. God will render to everyman according to his deeds, all of them! Perfect Justice, will demand perfect righteousness, as the Psalmist said,
“If you O Lord should mark iniquity , who could stand ? But there is forgiveness with you that you should be feared.”(Psalm 130:3)
God will Judge all sin, all sinners, the very secrets of men’s hearts will be revealed on that day! Who can stand when He appears? Who shall abide the day of His coming? It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God!
Truly the wrath of of God is on our godless generation. It is daily revealed in His giving our culture over to debasement, darkening their capacity for understanding, and reprobating their thinking.
But it is not suppossed to have the effect on those of us who have not been so obviously ruined, of pride in our own morality. Instead it should cause all men to fear, realising that God is a Holy God and no one will escape the judgment, and that He is a searcher of the secrets of men’s hearts. We must all search our own hearts and run to God seeking mercy!
I sense a possible discussion similar to Erasmus and the Binding of the Will...
IIRC, that was one of the most theologically erudite threads ever on FR.
I need to do a lot of research and thinking on this one before I post anything of import.
I hope the followers of this subject don’t disappoint...
I’m open, I love the give and take- a side note- what is IIRC? and do you know where the Erudite thread is so I can enjoy it? Thank you my friend-Pas Bill
Opening salvo: Then what was the point of the Prodigal Son? Does not that story state that God's forbearance is infinite? (P.S.: I always saw things from the son who stayed home's perspective -- this is the time for theologians to discern God's Wrath from His Forgiveness).
I believe that the Prodigal Son is the model for Romans 1, the older brother for Romans 2- The older brother didn’t lust for pig slop- he had that advantage- but missed the fac that he was just as far away-
IIRC=”If I Recall Correctly”
The thread of which I speak has almost 13,000 posts: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1550381/posts
If you have the time, that thread would be instructional reading and probably would make a great basis for a Doctoral PhD thesis. I am proud that I contributed a bit to the discussion.
I think we could be looking at something similar (if not quite so grand) with your contention about God’s Wrath vs. His Compassion (the latter implicit). Certainly worth discussion and, to be quite frank, I need to think about more than a bit...
thanks- 13000 posts!!?! cool-
>>I believe that the Prodigal Son is the model for Romans 1, the older brother for Romans 2- The older brother didn’t lust for pig slop- he had that advantage- but missed the fac that he was just as far away-<<
That isn’t the way I see it (nor is how it is taught). The lesson is that God always embraces those who left His Grace upon his/her return. And as much as I (as just an average guy) understand that point, it still seems to suck to be the Brother who stayed home and tended the fields and the cattle.
It looks like the brother who stayed home was taken for granted and the one who “strayed” got all of the fun and none of the repercussions.
Thanks for the post; link and discussion.
>>thanks- 13000 posts!!?! cool-<<
And most are erudite to the degree that you may not have encountered.
You might want to put aside an evening or 12 to read through it (still one of my favorites).
If you always do the right thing, you play it safe, and that is a good choice.
If you run and play the field, while you can come home and be forgiven, you also take a risk. Some who decide to have fun lose their way and never return, or may return too slowly and miss their opportunity entirely.
So far it looks like Pastor Bill and I agree. I’ll follow this one and see how it goes.
bookmark
I’m sorry pastor, but you do realize to whom Paul is speaking, don’t you? He’s speaking to his “dear friends in Rome”, in the Roman church, who he remembers fondly. And they are just as bad.
He goes on to say, “When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are talking about yourselves.”
There are so many emphases in Romans on God’s Grace, and the deceitfulness of our own hearts.
As Jesus did when He was in His ministry, Paul is talking about the self-righteousness of those who should know better, those who are “saved by Grace.”
Christ was a magnet for sinners and He rarely condemned them, but offered them love, redemption, forgiveness and salvation. He saved His condemnation for the biblically trained and those legally constrained.
Paul, in his letter to the Romans is so very emphatic about God’s Grace to us, that we did not deserve it. How possibly could he talk about wrath to anyone other than those who received that Grace?
Talk about God’s wrath to a sinner and you’ve lost him. Talk about God’s love and Grace and you may have shown him the way to Salvation.
When I was 9, 10 and 11 I got to go to a Christian camp. I remember it well, and for the most part, fondly. My counsellors became, in fact, a well known TV minister who died about 10 years ago, and the uncle and father of of fairly prominent TV teacher on air right now.
I’ll never forget that I couldn’t roast my hot dog in the bonfire because all I could think about was burning in hell. And at night I would wake up in that cabin and fear that Jesus had come and I was “left behind”.
That experience turned me away from the Lord for many years, and I vowed I would not expose my children to that kind of abuse. Thankfully, today, they are all active Christians and their kids are too.
Thank you Norge, I do agree that Paul is speaking to Christians,( whom he has not yet met). I believe he is laying out the gospel in a clear and unhindered way , Romans is unique in that it is not a polemic against error, this is the clear gospel from wrath to glory.
As for the preaching of God’s wrath, what about Romans? What about Jude- who said by the Holy Ghost, “Om some having compassion making a difference, others save with fear, snatching them out of the fire,hating even the garment spotted by the flesh” ?
I think it is irresponsible to scare children at a summer Bible Camp, so that a few “decisions” can be gained, that, in my opinion is not preaching the gospel!
Thanks for the comments-
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