BC and AD.
I have owned a Scofield Bible since before I was saved. I will own one till the day I die.
C I Scofield, the patron saint of Dispensationalist Lawyers.
Posted on 08/05/2010 5:00:51 PM PDT by wmfights
Edited on 08/05/2010 8:15:23 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
[snip]
Fine with me.
Just don’t want to spend a lot of time on it to have it . . . pulled or trashed. LOL.
Also, they looked at everything from a Jewish perspective. "The Good News" was the Messiah had come and he would set up His Kingdom. They had no idea about a Spiritual Kingdom. Even after the Ascension of Jesus Christ they were looking for an immediate return once Israel repented and believed.
Israel, as a Nation rejected Christ at His first coming. Not all of Israel, Christ had His Little Flock of believers, but the Nation of Israel as a whole. Strike 1.
The Nation of Israel rejected Christ and His offer to return and set up the Kingdom, on the day of Pentecost. Strike 2.
In Acts, Chapter 8, the Nation of Israel rejects Stephen's Message and he is stoned to death. Strike 3. Stephen replies to the wailing and gnashing Jews, "..And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God." Acts. 8:56.
This is important, because Christ WAS seated on the right hand of God. And Stephen saw Him STANDING. This was a sign of judgement. Strike 3.
With the very next Chapter, 9, Paul is saved and the Dispensation of the Grace of God begins. Israel is blinded, set aside, and the Gospel of the Grace of God goes to the Gentiles.
Sometimes my mind moves faster than my fingers and I don't type in everything I should. What I was getting at was at what point did the Christian Church emerge.
Your point about the Holy Spirit descending on believers is right, but at that point these believers still thought of themselves as Jews and maintained Temple worship.
that “Power” began the Church.
I would say you're right, but at that time it was not Christian. It was almost exclusively Jewish.
You got it.
I think at Pentecost the nation was given another chance, but only a fraction responded.
And up until today Israel is blinded, (but she is soon to have her eyes opened.)
Amen, Mrs.Z. God is not finished with Israel. He will turn His eyes back to her when the Church the Body of Christ is complete and we are removed from this world. And then the tribulation begins.
It was when I read Revelation with this in mind that it made sense.
I still don't get it.
Did you not realize that our Lord Himself was JEWISH, as were ALL HIS DISCIPLES? Are you saying that only a gentile can be a Christian? How would you categorize Messianic Jews? My husband and I have been supporting Jews for Jesus for years... do you actually believe them outside the Church?
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross , having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Eph. 2:14-18).
It is by the cross, that both Jews and Gentiles now have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Believing Jews and believing Gentiles are no longer at enmity. For He has created from two believers, one. One New Man. Where there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
It would be helpful to have some Scripture for your argument.
The believers at Pentecost never thought of themselves as anything but Jews who had received the King of Israel, Jesus Christ, and His salvation, and were waiting for His return to the earth to establish the long-promised Davidic, Messianic Kingdom (Acts 3:19-21).
Peter's preaching in Acts chapters 2 to 7, were entirely addressed to Israel and its leaders. He was not knowingly preaching to the Body of Christ, of which at that time he was totally unaware. Peter, nor the Eleven were anticipating a New Testament Church, the likes of ANYTHING that developed after Acts chapter 15.
Peter, nor the Eleven, had any idea that there would be a prolonged "Church Age." They were looking for the establishment of that which had been promised by the Old Testament prophets -- the Dividic Kingdom -- with Christ returning as its King.
We get in a mess when we try to read what we see of the Church today back in to the early chapters of the Acts of the Apostles, or in to the Book of Acts anywhere for that matter, and try to establish our doctrine there.
Amen. Peter and the 11 were exactly following the commission given to them by Christ. They were NOT preaching the Grace of God, because they were not given that. Until Paul, it was a mystery, hid in God. (Rom. 16:25,26). They could not preach something that they didn’t know yet, and they were perfectly doing as Christ instructed them to do. It was the restoration of Israel and the times of refreshing that Joel spoke of, that Peter preached. For the acceptance of Christ as Messiah, and His return to set up the Kingdom.
Next, Paul tells us in Romans chapter 11 that the gentiles were grafted into the root. WE are now PART of the olive tree.
Paul tells us in Romans 15:
25but now, I am going to Jerusalem serving the saints.
26For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem.
27Yes, they were pleased to do so, and they are indebted to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in their spiritual things, they are indebted to minister to them also in material things.
I think its pretty obvious "the saints" in Jerusalem are Jewish believers. And the Gentiles shared in something the Jews had.
Romans 15:12
12Again Isaiah says,
"THERE SHALL COME THE ROOT OF JESSE,
AND HE WHO ARISES TO RULE OVER THE GENTILES,
IN HIM SHALL THE GENTILES HOPE."
Isaiah 11:1 & 10:
1Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
10Then in that day The nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples; And His resting place will be glorious.
Revelation 22: 16
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
Jesus is the root foretold in Isaiah that the Gentiles would hope. Paul pronouced it in Romans and Jesus confirmed it in Revelation.
Isaiah the prophet foretold it, which means, it was ALWAYS Gods intention to include the Gentiles.
Romans 13:
46Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you )first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47"For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.'"
48When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Isaiah 49 confirms this
6He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth."
From the beginning Gods intention was to include the gentiles. Which means when he made the promise to Abraham he already had the Gentiles in mind. The Gentiles aren't the beginning of the church, we are the inclussion into it. We are the grafted in ones. The adopted ones.
Instead of looking at ourselves as better than the Jews, AND SEPERATE FROM the Jews. Scripture tells us we are now PART OF Gods promise to THE JEWS.
The "Church"
The Bride Of Christ
Started back with Gods promise to Abraham.
BC and AD.
I have owned a Scofield Bible since before I was saved. I will own one till the day I die.
C I Scofield, the patron saint of Dispensationalist Lawyers.
At one time, gentiles were partakers of the promise in Christ through the nation Israel. But when Israel becomes blinded and temporarily set aside, God, in His grace, provided a means for gentiles to be saved apart from Israel: "By the Gospel".
What! Bullinger demoted? You’re trying to divide!
But lets look at Hebrews 11:
31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
And what was the reward of this faith of a GENTILE PROSTITUTE????
Matthew 1
1The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:
5Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab, Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse.
IF Rahab hadn't earned an inheritance, why was she listed in Jesus' lineage in the first place.
2 GENTILES are listed in Jesus' lineage, Rahab and Ruth. We can argue that the Bible doesn't say they were "saved", BUT if they didn't warrant mentioning WHY ARE THEY mentioned? First of all they are women. Second they are Gentiles.
IF the Bible IS the inspired WORD OF GOD, then the mention of 2 GENTILE women MUST have some significance.
How can something grafted in be apart?
It was through the nation Israel that gentiles were partakers of the promises of God. The dispensation of grace gives gentiles a way to be saved apart from Israel. “By the Gospel” is how we are now partakers of the promise in Christ.
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