Posted on 08/20/2010 6:30:58 PM PDT by GunsAndBibles
“Then give to Caesar what is Caesar, but give to God what is God’s.” (Mat 22:15-21)
I'm surprised you guys have the guts to show up around here with the unabashed support of the Catholic Church for the illegal invasion.
Last Sunday, Assumption Day, there was a parade here complete with Mexican Flags and Aztec dancers headed to the local Catholic Church.
So enlighten me, why is the Catholic Church aiding and abetting lawbreakers?
LOL...well said my friend.
Good for you.
And you know, also, that you are in the vast minority.
If we weren't Catholics I'd be sitting in the Amen Corner yelling "preach it brother", since we are what we are I'll just nod politely in your direction.
I think that many Americans could agree with Archbishop Chaput's statement that his church will help people in need.
Where many non-Roman Catholics would probably tend to diverge from the Archbishop would be on what resources he would use for that help.
If Roman Catholics are using their church's resources, who could argue against it.
However, if illegal aliens are being "assisted" into getting free taxpayer funded healthcare, free taxpayer funded anchor baby services, and other free taxpayer funded welfare, all intended for legal American citizens, then many will be against the Archbishop's position.
I would suggest that the statement you posted could easily be construed as too ambiguous for such a hot topic.
When Americans see hundreds of thousands of illegals marching in a major city demanding "rights" in one news report, and then in another news report they hear about Roman Catholic groups arguing for "more support for undocumented immigrants", they will draw certain conclusions.
LOL, of course, the Archbishop and I don't have discussions on this issue, but I suggest that his words are too vague for such a volatile issue as illegal immigration and its ever increasing burden on American taxpayers.
I understand those positions - but they are inadequately framed in the historical context of scripture. Borders and residency in those eras were substantially different than today’s current standards and laws. One would expect to see a predominantly Catholic country like Mexico following those more liberal interpretations, but their laws are stricter than ours.
Our country has been very generous to illegals. Yet that is abused by the illegals to the point that it is overwhelming the system, it costs more for the benefits than what they put into the system. In essence, they are not only here illegally, but are stealing from the collective citizens (let alone the additional theft - identity and property).
My concern is that the Church (inclusive of those protestant denominations who also support illegal immigration) is promoting these people to come and participate in an immoral action (as described above). Is it correct to promote sinful behavior for a ‘social justice’ issue?
The Mahoneys, the McCarricks, and so on.
There are Catholic bishops...and not a few of them...who acknowledge the problem.
Archbishop Gomez, the new coadjutor archbishop of Los Angeles, has written:
He also notes that the millions of immigrants have violated U.S. immigration and that this makes law-abiding Americans angry.
“And it should,” he writes.
Archbishop Chaput, the Archbishop of Denver, has said,
You're right. People do -- one of the issues that's raised at the beginnings of these discussions is these people who come here illegally have broken the law, and that's not appropriate.
And, of course, the church agrees with them: Breaking the law is never appropriate. And being an illegal alien is not good for the person who breaks the law, nor is it good for our country. It's a dangerous way to live. And to have a group in our society that isn't legal undermines the common good, too.
So the church is not in favor of illegal immigration. The church is not in favor of breaking the law.
Tulsa's Bishop Slattery has stated,
However in recent years, the federal government has neither protected the sovereignty of our borders, nor has it provided a realistic means for workers to enter the country legally. Instead it has allowed millions of immigrants to enter the country illegally for the sake of our economy; while leaving it to state and local governments to deal with the resultant chaos of millions of valuable workers who have no legal identity, no automobile insurance (and are unable to obtain it), no health coverage (with no funds to pay for it) and no means of acquiring legal residency.
And I could continue on.
The fact of the matter is that the bishops' words are sound-byted to meet the agenda of the media. While there some (too many) who are vehemently pro open-border, there are a select few who get all the airtime.
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One other point: the idea that the bishops are supporting illegal immigration because it will swell the number of Catholics in the country is laughable in its lunacy.
Illegals have no money. They are not in a position to provide endowments or even in a position to make any kind of a sizable contribution in the weekly collection basket.
If they choose to send their kids to Catholic schools...they will have to be massively subsidized at the expense of those of us who do actually contribute a decent amount. If they use Catholic hospitals, chances are they will have to receive the treatments gratis...again at the cost of those of us who pay or those who endow the hospitals. If they use Catholic social services, do you think they pay for them?
Sure, population might be increased...but the dioceses would go broke in a heartbeat. (Amidst the lawsuit frenzy that is going on now, they are going broke enough anyway)
If the bishops had a nefarious plot, they would try to recruit rich immigrants, not dirt poor ones.
Pinging her (hope she saved it).
Evangelical churches have a very difficult problem as well with illegal immigrants in the congregation. The people aren’t the problem - they are basically nice people - but the question of how to deal with them is vexing. I know, “throw them out, turn them in to the police.” It doesn’t always seem so black-and-white when you have to deal with it among people you love.
Wonder how long the love and compassion would last if illegals were scaling the walls at Vatican City, having anchor babies, and the Vatican had to find a way to support them, housing, health costs and every day brought more and more. It’s easy to be ‘compassionate’ when it’s someone else’s/another country’s tax money being used to support the illegal antics.
Thanks for the comments.
There may be a reason his words are vague—and that is that this is primarily a political issue, and he’s a cleric, not a political leader. So he kinda has to stick to moral issues, and not get into the political/economic considerations.
But I think you are substantially right that some Catholics are being vague in saying “support” and meaning “government support” on the sly. Those folks need to remember the strong condemnations of socialism that Leo XIII wrote in the 1800s:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13APOST.HTM
And believe me, I understand the scandal aspect of it. I get just as upset watching those press reports as non-Catholics do—especially as I know how it’s going to be received.
All of the issues you raised are certainly important ones.
However, I would argue that they do not provide a response to the original question.
Surely the simple question of "What is the Roman Catholic church's position regarding illegal immigration?" can be addressed, without moving over into those issues.
I recognize that there is a continuing conflict between some Roman Catholic and some non-Roman Catholic posters on FR, and sadly, that it will probably continue.
Personally, however, I am interested in the original question, and the answer.
BTW, I would, and will, be interested in any future posts concerning the other issues you raised (they do need to be addressed and resolved by this country).
I read a number of your posts, and it seems that you certainly have some knowledge concerning this issue, and how you see it impacting, or being impacted by, the Roman Catholic church.
I don't think the question is going to go away, the issue is spreading (I think I recently read that 21 states are now attempting to implement a law like the one recently passed by Arizona, and blocked by a Federal Judge).
Rightly or wrongly, the anger and frustration will be targeted somewhere, and the results probably won't be pretty.
I pray regularly that it will be resolved peacefully.
And I would add to your comment that any Christian who believes that it will only be the Roman Catholic church who might take the backlash, should a boilover occur, is being very foolish indeed.
The leftists and communists embedded throughout the media will not be so narrow in condemning and finger pointing at "just" the Roman Catholics.
They desire the destruction of America, and in concert, the destruction of any morals-based organizations that stand against their vision of America being remade to that vision.
Divide and conquer is their plan, as it always has been.
I'm signing off now, may the Lord Bless you and your family.
This thread is now in the Religion Forum. Potty language - and references to potty language (including pictures of obscene gestures) - are not allowed here.
Hey, welcome to our world, in Texas, too. I do know that I have yet to see a procession of Lutheran green bean casseroles going down the road, but celebrations of Mary, yes. Let’s see, wonder if there is a breakdown of illegals in this country and their religion. Deny all they want, the truth is in plain sight. Every day. And it’s not about mercy. It’s about church membership.
Perfect. While you’re at it, why don’t you relegate all of the Catholic Caucus posts to Religion, rather that news/activism. That’s where they belong.
If you do not wish to see Religion Forum posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."
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