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Liberal Jesuits Found Newman Institute in Uppsala, Sweden
The Eponymous Flower ^ | 09/02/2010 | Tancred

Posted on 09/02/2010 10:11:49 AM PDT by 0beron

Editor: The Cardinal Newman Insitute, run by Jesuits, is seeking donors and hope for financial support from conservatives who believe they're running a conservative locale. You might think this is a cause for rejoicing, but we'd encourage you to be cautious. Don't be fooled.

This weekend, after hundreds of years, a Catholic University will open its doors in Sweden. The "Newman Institute" in Uppsala.

Stockholm [kath.net/KAP] This weekend after centuries a Catholic University will open its doors in Sweden. The "Newman Institute" in Uppsala will, according to the school authorities, be the first Catholic educational establishment since the Protestant Revolt in the 16th Century, which has the authority, to issue academic degrees. In 1477 Pope Sixtus IV. had founded the last university in Uppsala, till now. The Jesuit directed University celebrates its opening on Sunday afternoon with three lectures, which will each explore Christendom of the past.

The English Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-1890), who gives his name to the new institute, belongs to one of the most amazing figures in the Church History of the 19th Century. When he turned 44, the Anglican theological became a Catholic. In 1847 he was ordained a priest, and was named Cardinal by Leo XIII in 1879. The beatification of Newman on the 19th of September in Birmingham is a highpoint and completion of the Holy Father's trip to the United Kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newman_Institute_%28Uppsala%29

http://www.newman.se/about.htm

(Excerpt) Read more at eponymousflower.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: jesuits; liberal; sweden; university
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1 posted on 09/02/2010 10:11:58 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron
Hello...Newman


2 posted on 09/02/2010 10:14:26 AM PDT by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed (<---oops! see?))
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To: 0beron

Has it been lost all this time?


3 posted on 09/02/2010 10:17:06 AM PDT by Only1choice____Freedom (FDR had the New Deal. President 0bama has the Raw Deal.)
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To: 0beron

The author on his blog offers not a shred of evidence that the founders are liberals. I happen to know a bit about the history of this institute, which goes back about 10 years. I would not characterize it simply as liberal.

People ought to do some research before they make accusations.


4 posted on 09/02/2010 10:28:25 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

Of course they’re liberals:

1. They’re Jesuits.

2. We have it on good authority that they are.


5 posted on 09/02/2010 10:30:28 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

Then cite your evidence and let your readers judge.


6 posted on 09/02/2010 10:45:09 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: 0beron

There are a few good Jesuits around, like Frs. Fessio and Pacwa, but you’re right — there sure are a lot of bad ones that have gone off the rails. Let’s hope this is a truly Catholic endeavor and not just Church of the Zeitgeist...


7 posted on 09/02/2010 10:45:12 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: 0beron

You just did a typical MSM “citing anonymous sources” move.

Cite real evidence.


8 posted on 09/02/2010 10:46:07 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

Well, first off, it’s pretty self-explanatory.

Second off, you look at the course offerings and their methodology, things get hairy pretty quick. The emphasis on “inter-faith” for example is usually a dead giveaway, but what’s even worse than that is the Rectors devotion to Karl Rahner.

It’s pretty comical though, he showed up on EWTN basically begging for money, and you know how neoconservatives are, they think the Jesuits are still God’s Marines...

So, yeah... there are a lot of suckers out there who’re going to fall for this. Can you say Stockholm Syndrome?


9 posted on 09/02/2010 10:50:23 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

Oh, so your answer is “it’s self-evident” and they mention Karl Rahner?

I’ve got news for you. That’s not evidence. That’s someone who has been caught out in having bitten off more than he can chew and when called out on it, splutters.

Find some real evidence,other than your “all Jesuits are liberals” assumption.


10 posted on 09/02/2010 11:02:42 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: 0beron

So, so EWTN is liberal too?

Benedict is as well, I’m sure.

Let me guess. Jesus Christ is to darn liberal for you.

Have a good day.


11 posted on 09/02/2010 11:04:10 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

You must be pretty peeved off to attribute things to me I haven’t said. I never said EWTN was liberal, did I?

Yes, Karl Rahner is bad. I’d say a man who had a decades long affair with a German Communist is pretty untrustworthy, wouldn’t you?

But I’m guessing you have a vested interest.

Good day to you!


12 posted on 09/02/2010 11:06:59 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

No, you just said EWTN is neo-conservative which, in your lexicon is eeeeeeeevvvvvvvviiiiilllllly liberal, is it not?

If you don’t want to be interpreted that way, don’t throw bombs like “you know how neo-conservative EWTN is.”

I can’t have a good day if I have to deal with tin-foil hat folks all the time.


13 posted on 09/02/2010 1:09:16 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

I hope the college is orthodox rather than liberal. If it is orthodox, it will be perhaps the only non-liberal Jesuit college in the entire world. I can’t think of a single one in any country that has a reputation for being orthodox or even conservative. Can you?


14 posted on 09/02/2010 4:11:12 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Houghton M.

If I had to build a case that this is a liberal instituition, here’s what I would point to:

1) Look at the courses offered. Most seem okay, but then there’s this nutty stuff: Thomas Merton: andlig vägledare och gränsöverskridare. I’ve never known anyone but a liberal to teach that kind of garbage.

2) Look at the faculty (too many women; they do things like this - and this is the Church History professor: http://family.webshots.com/photo/1100761708039136692FgHfhX )

3) Look at the boss. Here he is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e89C2Cg9oZE

Then again, their paid fundraiser at least is pro-life: http://www.facebook.com/people/Tanja-Akerblom/1018756941

Mind you, in any case, some of the professors there are going to be decent in scholarship even if they might be liberals (if you know what I mean). Here is how one’s recent PhD defense is listed: Mikael Sundkvist defended a doctoral thesis in New Testament exegesis at the University of Joensuu, Finland, on May the 6th 2008. The thesis, with the title “The Christian Laws in Paul: Reading the Apostle with Early Greek Interpreters”, investigates four ambiguous expressions in Paul’s treatment of the Mosaic Law: the law of Christ (which appears twice), the law of faith, and the law of the Spirit of life. Sundkvist analyses the early Greek reception of these expressions and integrates the result from the reception study into the modern exegetical discussion.

Dr. Kari Kuula, University of Helsinki, was opponent at the defence, while professor Lauri Thurén, University of Joensuu, functioned as custos.

Can’t be a dummy.


15 posted on 09/02/2010 4:54:21 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

Some effort has been made to turn Gonzaga around. Can’t think of anything nice to say about any of their other schools in North America as institutions, and North America is where the SJ apostolate in higher education has been strongest, as higher education in Europe was largely secularized around the time of Napoleon.


16 posted on 09/02/2010 5:31:10 PM PDT by Hieronymus (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: vladimir998

I am a conservative and I teach Thomas Merton.

And you judge people to be liberal or not based on their looks?

Where you have actual evidence it’s that their fundraiser is prolife. As evidence of liberalism you have nothing but looks?

I know something about the origins of this institute and I know that its founders modeled it on an institution that has fidelity to the Church’s magisterium written into it’s bylaws.

I am sick and tired of so-called conservative Catholics rushing to judgment on the basis of nothing but pre-judice.

Suspend your damn judgment until you have some solid evidence one way or the other.


17 posted on 09/02/2010 8:33:07 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: vladimir998

What you say is true of the established Jesuit universities. I teach at one of them.

But then you have Fr. Fessio’s Campion Institute at the U. of San Francisco. The liberals shut it down but it was a Jesuit-founded faithfully Catholic institute.

Your mistake is in assuming that a newly founded institute that has a tiny footprint in an overwhelmingly non-Catholic country would be like centuries-old established Jesuit schools elsewhere. On what basis can one assume that.

What if, just if, some faithful Jesuits decided to found a small institute in a country where Catholicism is a tiny minority but growing and growing largely in a faithfully Catholic way, attracting converts precisely because it is faithfully Christian whereas the Lutheran establishment has gone off the deep end,

what if, in those circumstances, faithful Jesuits established a school? Would it look like a Fordham or a U. of San Frencisco? Of course not.

Yet that’s what you and others are doing—extrapolating from what you know about Jesuit universities elsewhere to this tiny institute, with no evidentiary basis whatsoever, just raw prejudice and presupposition.

That’s called rash judgment. And it’s wrong. Give it up. Suspend your judgment until you have evidence one way or another. That’s what I’m doing.


18 posted on 09/02/2010 8:38:11 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

No, what you’re not suspending your judgment. It seems more like wishful thinking. As I said, I hope it is orthodox. But since there isn’t a single orthodox Jesuit institution of higher learning in the world today - by reputation - I see no reason to not see the evidence for what it is: too many women faculty (almost all liberals in Sweden), faculty who love the Lutheran sect of Sweden, etc.

The burden of evidence is on you.


19 posted on 09/02/2010 10:24:05 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998; Houghton M.; Unam Sanctam
There's a comment which basically confirms this. They have the usual liturgical abuses, bad theology and so forth. The only thing that hasn't been discussed much is the gay angle, which is all too common with the Jesuits. There is one OD professor there, but you know...: I am a Swedish Catholic and it is also my opinion that the Church here in Sweden has suffered a great deal from these jesuits for several decades now. Over here, they seem to be up for anything: they organize little girls to serve at the altar instead of boys, they have holy communion distributed by lay people, chalice included. They don't offer teaching of traditional Church doctrine but rather continue on the line of the new theology. The professors at their newly founded institute are mainly modernists, apart from one Opus Dei, which is about as conservative as it gets.
20 posted on 09/04/2010 9:00:47 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

You can read the entry here in the comments on the blog: http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2010/09/liberal-jesuits-open-cardinal-newman.html?showComment=1283615241095_AIe9_BG5XJMfc4ZH-5rHd25xzPTyWcr9ZFM1M26tgW1DTWUz0OtxoSLu4WLskUEXlUmxKjZMTT0UnR3KDOug0N2HxQJp8LLT69Icyd_vI20_knT3p_uhSyppQDfGgvyFrEa0NKPlp8bP12OcjKLRWxNozIvKAzmjqbNGequiSsXhowd9ms9UF5cE1RKoPg2oTnpjIlgGt5M7GCK8Dz189ksZ4nasPBPdBBioBK2FM3hicy2fRXDytnKokcRTkSPytcf4fDWDklRevMZx_I8qx-O2O4KjOEonGleF_G-QEnApbiOih-D6EgQgiya497tUhlsncslzl8KEBjRw5_fUs4uDYNMfKo-U5Ymfm-i-qm86Sk-RhqcMB3f-ozv99NKzl1f_Nntq7p3HmC_ceYr-coHFWx4o1pb60ov0uOeRQ6oIf1yvjbJasWIux7HfdMy2vjLI49-jJo1bMp0OFpZppJZHuheMrzG6eL1sm_5GCyOfWqZP3Ny4GDModzKtpWmieQHpyAvSBa6YIYuJ5RYxiRbNy6I6lObnQum9AbtGzXKWDaf9F4KwQfsbXGvPOdPz1BwUC2xwUALNr9Lx12JOhdUF9dgvbBr0a-b1thPWKMRSCwaJotCIYteGqhRyuITuHR-rweizY32qOqSewhO6sJi1wX0_rn0gFrWfPOQ4fT64C9A1pYmxCXeFq9IsrM98oNkzlFRaZFMZHiSdJqqAuErzZAO72hgVYbkyPNKM5uL_tXPzH-OtdGvSXV6E8jMGPXDfL1OJBwEGz7dh1xisvVJvTZGmJ0mZYz9TG_mtiULEgpmWUCUy70uvRUaCe9DKqh7v4xusYfLRbcqhh9z_-aJs_p-6BBLHhpNceX_df5rzpKgy7q_CWL1cZqoiwQ7PKNC0kDZbmR4md8Yj24DMi8fCmqYUhhs-sEXYW8LB3Us-fsTSMcRzaSo#c5853864941204323966


21 posted on 09/04/2010 9:03:18 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

I see, they are all flaming modernists except for the Opus Dei guy.

How many Opus Dei folks are permitted to teach at flamingly liberal Jesuit universities elsewhere?

I thought so.

0

nada

none

But you already know what you are going to know about this. You knew the answer even before you investigated. No matter that the evidence clouds matters, you know the answer.

Enjoy your little box. It’s a lot easier when you know the answers before you even ask questions.


22 posted on 09/05/2010 4:20:06 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: vladimir998

Sorry, bud. The burden of evidence is on Oberon. And his blogging bud over at Eppppydom doesn’t provide evidence, only innuendo.


23 posted on 09/05/2010 4:21:55 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: 0beron

Uh, your’ Swedish informant for most of his or her comment describes things in general in the Swedish Catholic church, which, even if accurate (might be a tad exaggerated, perhaps?—I was present for a Mass celebrated by the bishop of Stockholm a few years ago that was liturgically rather conservative, employed a good bit of Latin).

Having established that some liturgical abuses are common in Sweden (big surprise), the informant then makes a general statement about the professors without, again, a shred of evidence, or should I say, eppydence?


24 posted on 09/05/2010 4:26:06 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

Nah, the Jesuits are known to be liberal. Sweden is a liberal country. The faculty certainly seems to be liberal. The burden is yours to prove otherwise.

Again, if it isn’t liberal, it would be the only Jesuit institution of higher learning in the entire world that isn’t.


25 posted on 09/05/2010 6:34:36 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Houghton M.

Oh please, trendy 70s theology, Rahnerites, crappy faculty made up mostly of women, Merton... and new theology.

Jesuits have been destroying the Church for the better part of fifty years. It was time they were held accountable.

I think the laity is getting sick of supporting a pack of gay social workers who cynically take their money while insisting that they’re really Catholic.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.


26 posted on 09/05/2010 8:31:21 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: Houghton M.

Btw, your responses are really haughty, sounds like I hit a nerve. I wouldn’t want you teaching my kids.


27 posted on 09/05/2010 8:33:43 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

How about offering some evidence? What evidence you’ve offered goes against your thesis (an Opus Dei member, a pro-life fundraiser). The rest is innuendo and guilt by association.

You and your buddy Tancred just throw stuff against the wall. You haven’t hit a nerve, you haven’t even managed to stick anything to the barn wall.


28 posted on 09/05/2010 3:26:35 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: vladimir998

This is evidence? “The Jesuits are known to be liberal.” True. But some are not and the coming generation is quite different from the one dying off. What’s the age of the people who founded this institute? Where are they located in the Jesuit spectrum? You see, I know a hell of a lot of Jesuits, from all corners of the spectrum. I know where the non-liberal ones are located. I make distinctions. You brand all Jesuits with a broad brush. What you say applied 20 years ago. But things are changing.

Sweden is liberal. Yeah. So what? How does that prove squat about this institute.

Give me some real evidence. Tell me something specific about Philip Geister and how liberal he is.

The burden is yours to prove that your broad brush prejudiced statements apply to this specific instance.

No, it’s not an SSPX-approved institute, which is the only thing that probably would satisfy Oberon. But truly liberal Jesuits wouldn’t be caught dead with a known Opus Dei member on their faculty. So “the faculty seems to be liberal” simply is not true.

Call me back when you have some actual evidence.


29 posted on 09/05/2010 3:32:53 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: 0beron

Wild broad brush claims. You aren’t just haughty, you are breathlessly hyperbolic.

I must have hit a nerve.


30 posted on 09/05/2010 3:35:07 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

No, you call me back when you have some evidence. Remember, if it is orthodox, then it is the only Jesuit institute of higher learning ON EARTH that is orthodox. Thus, the burden is ENTIRELY yours.

To say “But things are changing” is nothing but fluff at this point. The faculty appears liberal. Check them out yourself. I looked at a few. Let’s just say that their orthodoxy is not exactly ringing forth. The fact that most don’t even appear to be Catholic is helping either.

The burden is ENTIRELY yours.


31 posted on 09/05/2010 3:54:15 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

I gave you specific evidence—Opus Dei, pro-life fundraiser.

You cite guilt by association, “all Jesuits are evil, all Jesuit schools must a priori be liberal.”

That’s not evidence. That’s prejudice.

Goodbye.


32 posted on 09/06/2010 6:26:46 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

You wrote:

“I gave you specific evidence—Opus Dei, pro-life fundraiser.”

Nope. I was the one who pointed out that the fundraiser was pro-life. And as I pointed out - and you have apparently never responded to this point (until you distort it below)- if this is an orthodox Jesuit institution it will be the only orthodox Jesuit higher learning institute in the ENTIRE WORLD. The fact that there are no others - ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - tells us something about the chances of this one being orthodox. Quite frankly that trumps anything you have said thus far. As I have said, more than once, I hope it’s orthodox, but it is extremely doubtful at this point.

“You cite guilt by association, “all Jesuits are evil, all Jesuit schools must a priori be liberal.””

I never said any such thing. I never said the Jeuits were evil. I never said that “all Jesuit schools must a priori be liberal.” You can disagree with what I say, but I would prefer if you do not make up things I never said.

I write clearly and concisely. The meaning of my words are not difficult to ascertain.

In post #14 I wrote:

“If it is orthodox, it will be perhaps the only non-liberal Jesuit college in the entire world. I can’t think of a single one in any country that has a reputation for being orthodox or even conservative. Can you?”

In post #19 I wrote:

“But since there isn’t a single orthodox Jesuit institution of higher learning in the world today - by reputation - I see no reason to not see the evidence for what it is: too many women faculty (almost all liberals in Sweden), faculty who love the Lutheran sect of Sweden, etc.”

And in post #25 I wrote:

“Again, if it isn’t liberal, it would be the only Jesuit institution of higher learning in the entire world that isn’t.”

And in post #31 I wrote:

“Remember, if it is orthodox, then it is the only Jesuit institute of higher learning ON EARTH that is orthodox. Thus, the burden is ENTIRELY yours.”

“That’s not evidence. That’s prejudice.”

No, it’s “track record”. It’s experience. I have said from the beginning that I hope it is orthodox - and I do! But the track record of the Jesuits is simply not orthodox for almost 50 years now in the western world. Only time will tell. It is entirely possible that the institute is staffed by liberals and a few orthodox members together. It might still encourage holiness among its students. Conversions might take place. But, in any case, the burden is still yours.

“Goodbye.”

Goodbye. In the future I hope you do not resort to distorting what others post to you. I never once distorted what you wrote.


33 posted on 09/06/2010 6:53:33 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Houghton M.

Good old Vald... he only sees what he wants to.
“He seems to forget that the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of Bishops.......


34 posted on 09/06/2010 6:56:25 AM PDT by investigateworld (Naughty Nancy has a nasty ..........)
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To: Hieronymus

Went by Gonzaga a couple of days ago, while enroute to my new home...
The professors there still cruise the big T/A truck stop looking for someone to give a bj too... or get a real good ‘trucker beat down’... all of which they seek in the dirt parking lot behind the fuel pumps.
‘Nuff said?


35 posted on 09/06/2010 7:01:23 AM PDT by investigateworld (Naughty Nancy has a nasty ..........)
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To: investigateworld

I trust that not all of the professors were there. I never claimed that Gonzaga had been turned around, but that some effort had been/was being made, which would put it one notch above any other Jesuit University that I am aware of. Even if things are going well, at best you would be looking at a small minority of professors in key positions—still lots of room for bad apples.


36 posted on 09/06/2010 9:52:43 AM PDT by Hieronymus (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: investigateworld

I trust that not all of the professors were there. I never claimed that Gonzaga had been turned around, but that some effort had been/was being made, which would put it one notch above any other Jesuit University that I am aware of. Even if things are going well, at best you would be looking at a small minority of professors in key positions—still lots of room for bad apples.


37 posted on 09/06/2010 9:52:43 AM PDT by Hieronymus (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Houghton M.

You remind me of way too many Jesuits.

Just keep denying there’s a problem, eventually people are going to get sick of this and even government largesse won’t save you.

I heartily discourage people from sending their children to Jesuit schools. If you do, you’re making a huge mistake.


38 posted on 09/06/2010 11:05:22 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

You remind me of a ten-year. You have no evidence for your position. I made distinctions and offered evidence, pointed out that even your own evidence supported my position. Your whole case rests on sweeping generalizations with no evidence.

So now you just take your sweeping claim and apply it to me personally.

Since all Jesuits and all Jesuit schools, evidence be damned are equally bad in your mind, not even Jesus Christ himself could reason with you. You are closed to evidence—when put in front of your face, you just deny it.

You and Tancred make a sweet pair.


39 posted on 09/09/2010 6:09:08 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.
Oh, so your answer is “it’s self-evident” and they mention Karl Rahner? I’ve got news for you. That’s not evidence.

Here is the evidence on the heterodoxy of Karl Rahner, implicitly denying the doctrine of original sin:

    Cardinal Siri explains that in 1953, Rahner [...] "seems to admit [...] the doctrine of original sin” [...] By 1970, however, in his Theological Meditations on Mary, Rahner writes:

    “The dogma (of the immaculate conception) does not mean in any way that the birth of a being is accompanied by something contaminating, by a stain, and that in order to avoid it Mary must have had a privilege." [...]

    Cardinal Siri goes on to show the fallacy of Rahner’s teaching: “... if man at his birth” says the Cardinal, “ is not accompanied by a stain, of what stain does the Bull of Pius IX speak? How can one claim, as Rahner does, that there was not any stain to avoid and that Mary did not need a privilege?”

    In short, this is nothing more than Rahner’s implicit denial of original sin. It also undermines the infallibility of Papal pronouncements, since Rahner’s words clearly contradict Pius IXs solemn definition.

    http://www.cfnews.org/rahner.htm


40 posted on 09/09/2010 7:09:45 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Houghton M.; 0beron; vladimir998
Oh, so your answer is “it’s self-evident” and they mention Karl Rahner? I’ve got news for you. That’s not evidence.

Here is the evidence on the heterodoxy of Karl Rahner, implicitly denying the doctrine of original sin:

    Cardinal Siri explains that in 1953, Rahner [...] "seems to admit [...] the doctrine of original sin” [...] By 1970, however, in his Theological Meditations on Mary, Rahner writes:

    “The dogma (of the immaculate conception) does not mean in any way that the birth of a being is accompanied by something contaminating, by a stain, and that in order to avoid it Mary must have had a privilege." [...]

    Cardinal Siri goes on to show the fallacy of Rahner’s teaching: “... if man at his birth” says the Cardinal, “ is not accompanied by a stain, of what stain does the Bull of Pius IX speak? How can one claim, as Rahner does, that there was not any stain to avoid and that Mary did not need a privilege?”

    In short, this is nothing more than Rahner’s implicit denial of original sin. It also undermines the infallibility of Papal pronouncements, since Rahner’s words clearly contradict Pius IXs solemn definition.

    http://www.cfnews.org/rahner.htm


41 posted on 09/09/2010 7:12:33 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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To: Houghton M.

No, I just know that when it’s raining the ground gets wet. You must be mentally-ill, because you deny a lot of evidence already out there as to the depravity and decadence of the Jesuit Order...Either that, or you benefit financially from the continued snake-oil business that the Jesuits are involved in.

And it wasn’t just Cardinal Siri who condemned Karl Rahner, even Montini condemned him.

Anyway, you’re an apologist for a dying cause. The sooner the Jesuits go away, the better.

No one who has any concern for their child’s eternal well-being should either send their child to a Jesuit school or seminary, no one.


42 posted on 09/10/2010 6:11:42 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

I denied no evidence because you presented none. I pointed out that your own evidence contradicts you.

And now you cite events from 40 years ago as evidence?

And resort to calling me mentally ill?

Sounds like you’re plumb out of ideas to defend your indefensibilities.

Why don’t you ask Tancred for some help. He’s full of clear and convincing evidence for the stuff he scatters over the internet.


43 posted on 09/11/2010 10:28:19 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: 0beron

Oh, and I’m not an apologist for a dying cause.

See, I’m not making a defense of the liberal Jesuits of 40 years ago. You are the one lambasting a dying cause, namely, the liberal Jesuits of 40 years ago. They are in fact dying off and the next generation is different.

But you are so stuck in the past that you deny that a demographic shift could be taking place among the Jesuits like it is in the rest of the Church. There’s a lot like you out there.

You are like the Dwarfs in C. S. Lewis’s _The Last Battle_”

They got taken in once by Shift the Ape and realized it. That’s to their credit. But their response to that was to decide never again to trust anyone. So they end up in paradise but refuse to see it for what it is and thereby create their own hell.

You are creating your own Hell in the Church by refusing to acknowledge the possibility of change for the better. Granted, there was immeasurable harm done by Jesuits as well as many others. And some Jesuits and many others continue to do great harm right now. And will continue to do so in the future.

I do not deny that. I just question the wisdom of declaring an instutition evil without any clear evidence, simply on the basis of the past record of the Jesuits.

Go find out something concrete about Fr. Geister and get back to me. Until you do, all we have to go on, concretely, is a pro-life fundraiser and an Opus Dei faculty member. Oh, I forgot, some other faculty member read some of Thomas Merton. (Guilt by association where even the associated one was off the rails only later in his life—the early Merton was solidly orthodox—until you find out just what this other faculty member likes about Merton, his Mertonophilia has no probative force.)

Oh, and I forgot, one of the faculty members is GASP, a woman. Clear evidence of eeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiilllllllll. Give me something concrete about her evilness.

But it’s easier to call me mentally ill.


44 posted on 09/11/2010 10:35:28 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: mas cerveza por favor

Give me a break.

The Newman Institute is Jesuit-founded. (Not Jesuit run—or did that escape you? It’s not run by or owned by the Jesuits, merely has one Jesuit as its founder. But I don’t imagine details matter much to you.)

The Newman Institute is founded by a Jesuit.

Karl Rahner was a Jesuit.

Karl Rahner was heterodox on one point. (Orthodox on others—or do you deny that? If so, you are intellectually dishonest.)

All Jesuits are heterodox because Karl Rahner was heterodox.

Ergo, the founder of the Newman Institute in Uppsala must necessarily be heterodox. Never mind that we have no evidence one way or another as to his heterodoxy or orthodoxy.

He has to be heterodox because he’s a Jesuit and all Jesuits are heterodox.

Never mind that I cited some non-heterodox Jesuits and know of dozens of others, beneath the radar, in the next generation.

No, I must be venally profiting from Jesuit snake oil.

Or mentally ill.

Just don’t make things too personal now.


45 posted on 09/11/2010 10:40:27 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: mas cerveza por favor

Let’s be intelligent here. This might be evidence of Karl Rahner’s heterodoxy.

But it cannot by any stretch of the imagination be evidence of the heterodoxy of the Newman Institute in Uppsala.

I wrote that Oberon and Vladimir had provided “no evidence.”

In the context it would be clear to anyone reading intelligently that the “no evidence” referred to the Newman Institute question.

And you chime in with evidence of Rahner’s heterodoxy. That can only be evidence of the Newman Institute’s heterodoxy if Rahner’s putative heterodoxy somehow contamimates all Jesuits anywhere in anything they do.

YOUR EVIDENCE WOULD MEAN THAT FR. MITCH PACWA IS HETERODOX. THAT FR. FESSIO IS HETERODOX.

So your evidence is no evidence with regard to the issue at hand.


46 posted on 09/11/2010 10:45:20 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: mas cerveza por favor

My apologies. I see that Oberon called me mentally ill and venal. You did not. You just employed dubious logic—guilt by association.


47 posted on 09/11/2010 10:47:08 AM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

No, it’s a sincere level of concern either for your mental health or your moral health, because either you’re a complete knave or a fool.

Despite the overwhelming evidence, you insist on us believing in the sanity and orthodoxy of a newly founded Jesuit school when there isn’t a single other such institution in entire world.

Clearly, there’s something very wrong with you.


48 posted on 09/11/2010 6:29:39 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: Houghton M.

You’ve gotten all kinds of evidence.

The fact that you don’t find Merton problematic, but even worthy of serious study by Catholic students is damning enough.

I think if we sat down and lined up where we both stood in terms of politics, philosophy and religion, we’d both be very much at odds indeed.

I’m not interested in maintaining a fictitious alliance between modernism and Catholicism. That seems to be your game.


49 posted on 09/11/2010 6:34:33 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: Houghton M.
You just employed dubious logic

I did not need to employ logic. The words of Cardinal Siri and Rahner himself were damning enough.

I wrote that Oberon and Vladimir had provided “no evidence.” In the context it would be clear to anyone reading intelligently that the “no evidence” referred to the Newman Institute question. And you chime in with evidence of Rahner’s heterodoxy. That can only be evidence of the Newman Institute’s heterodoxy

Rahner had already been mentioned in the thread as connected to the university. Here is a textbook for the course on Fundamental Theology:

Rahner, K., Foundations of Christian Faith: Introduction to the Idea of Christianity.

Another of the textbooks used was written by Kasper the friendly heretic.

http://www.newman.se/kursplaner/Fundamentalteologi,%202009.pdf

50 posted on 09/11/2010 8:54:39 PM PDT by mas cerveza por favor
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