Posted on 09/05/2010 9:33:27 AM PDT by NYer
the possibility of it's being a painting has long been proved false - and it's provenance also goes back before daVinci ;o)
The History Channel documentary does show a heretofore new theory of the method that produced the image in the Shroud - which is NOT a burned or scorched image. The image has qualities - the 3-D one, for example - that no one has been able to reproduce before.
these scientists were able to get the 3-D effect by using a laser scan! - which irradiates.
That might be the tip of the spear. God's laser may be a bit stronger than ours? ;o)
My links in post # 52 are a good place to start for anyone who is just getting started in Shroud research. there is not one question anyone can come up with that has not been speculated on and thoroughly investigated and tested six ways to Sunday.
Questioning is the first step and I wonder if it shouldn't be that way - that each of us should question and then set about to find the answers.
We're fortunate. there are decades of research that we can dip into. Ultimately, each of us must come to our own conclusions. It's a great quest. If you decide to venture into it with a open spirit, I guarantee you an exciting ride.
(You may have noticed I said "spirit" rather than "mind?" There IS a big difference. One is the cross Jesus spoke of when He said to pick up our cross and follow him. He was referring the the "X" cross that signifies and blocking, a hindrance, to our passage. That"X" sign was used, even in His day, as it is today, to signify NOT THIS WAY. For most things 'GOD', we need to set aside our ego self - mind - and operate using our 'Spirit' self, which will testify of the truth of a thing, if we 'listen.'
Sure...The shroud is one piece of cloth...It goes from the feet at the front, up over the head and down the back, again to the feet...
Two images on the shroud, one of the front and one of the back...
When layed out straight, the image of the head in the front butts up to the image of the head in the back...Where's the top of the head??? When layed out, there's no space for the top of the head like there would have to be in a legitimate image...What's up with that???
Well guess you should have kept it buttoned it up then, don't ya think???
So that's why your numbers are so high, eh??? You count half the Protestant population as Catholics...
OR you could just believe what the scriptures tell us...That Jesus' body was changed...And it went skyward...
So the image was there before the cloth was used for Jesus' burial???
God bless
Should we estimate the number of posts that will be made on this thread.Waiting for the buddies to arrive and offer incisive commentary?
Jesus saves
I'd like to see Islam top that.
**...That Jesus’ body was changed...And it went skyward...**
Did go skyward twice? Because, after he was resurrected he appeared to Mary Magdalene, telling her, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father...” (John 20:17)
Then there was the time he appeared to the disciples when Thomas was present, and the Lord TELLS him to touch his wounds. Did he go up to the Father in between those two events, and then later ascend while in the presence of his disciples?
I don't know. Maybe it didn't even leave ashes.
Maybe the original body of Jesus was 'destroyed'. Those people who saw 'Jesus' after his death, saw a 'resurrected' form of his body. All the wounds were gone. Isn't that true?
That 'form' is also the form that was able to rise up to heaven. Maybe this was because it really wasn't a physical body anymore, but the 'appearance' of form, generated by the unique 'power' that Christ/God had/used. According to the Bible, many heavenly creatures are able to give the 'appearance' of a human body, yet they are not physical creatures, they are spiritual ones. Angels, for instance.
‘dude’ would be the proper choice.
No. Thomas didn't think it was Jesus until He showed Thomas His wounds.
John 20: 24-28
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Don't worry. I am not here to 'prove' anything nor get into an epic battle with those who have a different opinion.
I just propose possible answers and invite everyone to shoot them down.
I appreciate your response, and others who have responded.
I have been on FR long enough, and been through plenty of battles, and have learned a little about trying to encourage others to contribute their thoughts and ideas, instead of insisting I have all the answers.
That's why I chose ("you stole it from another Freeper!") my particular tagline. It reminds me I'm not as smart as I think I am, and many times my tagline is true.
According to the Bible, once he was taken to the tomb, he wasn't seen until his 'resurrection'. Of note is that those who saw him, saw his 'body' or 'appearance' to be that of JESUS before he was tortured and put on the cross.
If angels can appear to have a human 'form', why couldn't Jesus, after he died, have done the same?
Especially if his original body was 'destroyed' by the 'resurrection'.
I don't think the Bible meant that Jesus was 'resurrected' in the same sense that people bitten by ZOMBIES suddenly stand up and walk away with their 'deceased and damaged' form.
Do you?
Jesus the Christ, later 'rose' into heaven. I don't think the physical body can do such a thing, and that the 'appearance' of Jesus (formed by the 'spirit' or 'soul') was what actually 'rose'.
Most of the insistence by religious experts that Jesus's PHYSICAL BODY rose into heaven is only to explain why his PHYSICAL BODY was not found in the tomb.
I am just proposing an explanation for why it wasn't, and how the 'radiation marks' could have gotten onto the cloth , (or , as another article has pointed out, the image is not on the cloth, but on the SOAPWART.)
I suppose that is just as possible. In that scenario, did his 'body' repair itself during, or after life filled him again?
If he did 'resurrect' his old body, why did he take it to heaven?
AS far as I can tell from the Bible descriptions and other literature, There is no food to eat, no air to breathe. There are no toilets.
It is a spiritual place, way beyond our ability to comprehend.
It would make no sense to take a 'body' there, nor to have one. Would it?
If you get to read all the posts, I think you will see that is what I am saying.
His 'body' changed. 'What' it changed into (an 'appearance' of Jesus before his crucifixion, formed by his 'spirit' so he could finish his mission) is what eventually went 'skyward'. Are we not saying the same thing?
Very good. Thanks for providing the Bible source for that information.
Blows my theory out of the water. Well, some of it.
Whatever 'power' was involved in 'resurrecting' the body, could have caused what is being interpreted as 'radiation burns'.
IF NOT, I know of no other 'good' explanation.
The marks in the Shroud being made as Jesus regains life really is logical.
The Bible says that when Jesus comes in a cloud, graves will open and the saved will be caught up in the clouds with Him. And our bodies will be made new. I believe that means perfect, as they were meant to be before the fall.
It would make no sense to take a 'body' there, nor to have one. Would it?
I honestly don't worry about it. The Bible says it is like "looking through a glass darkly". That means even if He told us everything, we wouldn't understand and I trust Him so I just accept it. It won't be like anything we've ever known. Sounds exciting to me.
There us a gap between the top and back of the head on the cloth. What you are seeing is just a water stain that makes it appear that the front/back of head meet without a gap. I posted a link to an image that shows it pretty clearly a few months ago. If I get some free time later this evening I'll go find my old post.
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