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Catholic Word of the Day: CALVINISM/ARMINIANISM, 09-06-10
CatholicReference.net ^ | 09-06-10 | Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary

Posted on 09/06/2010 9:55:41 AM PDT by Salvation

Featured Term (selected at random):

CALVINISM

The religious system introduced by John Calvin (1509-64). French reformer, in opposition to the doctrine of the Catholic Church on the meaning of humanity's predestination. In the Calvinist system, as a result of Adam's fall, man has no longer any internal freedom of the will; he is a slave of God. Everyone is eternally predestined, either for heaven or for hell, absolutely independent of his personal efforts. Consequently the elect cannot be lost. The basic principles of Calvinism are set forth in the Institutes of the Christian Religion, where Calvin argues that, since God is absolutely infinite, he is the only real agent in the universe and creatures are merely his instruments.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

ARMINIANISM

Doctrine held by certain Calvinists in the Netherlands in the seventeenth century. Originally taught by the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). His followers were called Remonstrants. They opposed Calvin's teaching that grace benefits only the elect, that Christ died for the elect only, and, in general, his doctrine of selective salvation and absolute predestination, independent of human merit. Condemned by the Reformed Synod of Dort (1618-19), it paved the way for permanently dividing the followers of Calvin (1509-64) and the churches derived from the theory of predestination.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; freformed
This is being discussed in a thread on FR. I needed to find out more.
1 posted on 09/06/2010 9:55:43 AM PDT by Salvation
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To: All
Funny, when I asked a Calvinist about information they were rude to me. Hopefully I am not rude to them.

Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

      These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.


2 posted on 09/06/2010 9:58:23 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Allegra; SuziQ; BlackVeil; Straight Vermonter; Cronos; SumProVita; ...

Catholic Word of the Day – links will be provided later by another FReeper.

 

Calvinism/Armianism

 

 

Catholic Word of the Day Ping!

If you aren’t on this Catholic Word of the Day Ping list and would like to be, please send me a FReepmail.


3 posted on 09/06/2010 10:01:37 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

**They opposed Calvin’s teaching that grace benefits only the elect, that Christ died for the elect only,**

Good point. If that were true — How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Surely, the thief was not among the elect according to Calvinism.

WE can not judge. Only God can judge. That is where I see an error here.


4 posted on 09/06/2010 10:09:34 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

You seem wise enough not to entertain a Calvinist for sadistic enjoyment.


5 posted on 09/06/2010 10:17:57 AM PDT by Global2010
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To: Global2010

I don’t, but we can put the Catholic opinion out here.


6 posted on 09/06/2010 10:24:59 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Surely, the thief was not among the elect according to Calvinism.

theologically inaccurate statement

7 posted on 09/06/2010 10:25:05 AM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Revelation 911

According to?


8 posted on 09/06/2010 1:55:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

>>WE can not judge. Only God can judge. That is where I see an error here.<<

“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

The Greek word for judge is “krino” and it means “to call into question”. This is what Jesus means when He says “judge with righteous judgment”. We are to call into question the unbiblical actions of individuals and discern for ourselves whether or not to follow such a person. This is something that is sorely lacking in the Christian community today. It seems everyone is afraid of being accused of judging others. When that verse is used it is always in relationship to someone condemning someone else’s seemingly judgmental attitude. Christians aren’t to condemn, but we are to judge/call into question the actions of others and use biblical discernment to do so.


9 posted on 09/06/2010 4:30:09 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation

>>How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”<<

How would we know whether or not the thief was one of the elect? We would know only after it was obvious that the thief was saved. An example for all of us I would think.

I too have struggled with the Calvinistic concept of election but think I understand it by the above example.


10 posted on 09/06/2010 4:36:25 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

I don’t see any validity in the theory, because of original sin and free will.

Some people can turn their lives around — and no Calvinist can say one day — they are not saved, and another day — they are saved.

It just isn’t logical to me.

Besides, God has no time limits. God’s time is not in an analog line like ours is — God’s time is all-encompassing.

I just thought of something else. What about the good men and women of the Old Testament. Are they “saved” or “not saved” according to Calvinists?

I’m just wondering and am serious in my questioning, for I think there is error in their (Calvinisitic) thinking.


11 posted on 09/06/2010 4:42:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; Gamecock

The Institutes and the Westminster Confession

but hold back ! they would really throw a pail of water on this Pride parade, so please continue


12 posted on 09/06/2010 5:45:35 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Salvation
free will.

in your "free will", is there anything you do that is a surprise to God?

13 posted on 09/06/2010 5:47:05 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Salvation
Are they “saved” or “not saved” according to Calvinists?

ok - but just one more time - i really have to clean up the cats hairballs

Does God know BEFORE a child is born is that child will profess a faith or not?

Well, of course - He's omnipotent...

By the same token, He, knows ALL - part of that ALL, is knowing who is or isnt "elect"

Why do you limit God?

14 posted on 09/06/2010 5:50:17 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Revelation 911

Yes, God is omnipotent....no hairballs there.

However, he gives man “free will.”

Some men (and women) sin. So God waits for them to come back to the Church and ask forgiveness.

But God is a loving God — the choice is that of the man or the woman. This is not limiting God at all.

Humans are the limited ones because of original sin.


15 posted on 09/06/2010 5:54:34 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
So God waits for them to come back to the Church and ask forgiveness.

so coming back to the "church" is now a prior condition of forgiveness?

Hmm

But doesnt God already know they are going to do that?

the choice is that of the man or the woman.

Well isnt God lucky they choose Him

.....almost sound like man chooses his salvation as long as he/she recites a repentance

Rather - in your linear understanding of time, it does appear we make choice - however, none are a surprise to God and He always knows the outcome -

Lemme ask you a question.....does God change His mind?

16 posted on 09/06/2010 6:08:12 PM PDT by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: Salvation; RnMomof7; HarleyD; irishtenor; Dr. Eckleburg
The basic principles of Calvinism are set forth in the Institutes of the Christian Religion Bible.

There. I fixed it for you

17 posted on 09/06/2010 6:17:08 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: All

It is most interesting that Augustine and the Council of Orange were not mentioned in the above article. They were both very clear in their understanding of “Calvinism.”


18 posted on 09/06/2010 6:18:38 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Salvation

***Good point. If that were true — How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”***

Because, the thief was among the elect.


19 posted on 09/06/2010 6:20:08 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Gamecock

I will not beat up fellow believers for the amusement of the unregenerate..

WE disagree on the order of salvation but not the one who saves.
i was saved as an arminian and I am saved as a Calvinist.. I was not saved as a Catholic


20 posted on 09/06/2010 6:25:19 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Salvation
Some people can turn their lives around — and no Calvinist can say one day — they are not saved, and another day — they are saved.

Are you perhaps confusing the elect with the non-elect?

We don't know who the elect are. As the great Baptist preacher Spurgeon said "We can't lift their shirts and look for a stripe that identifies one as a member of the elect. We preach the Gospel to all knowing the elect will respond." (paraphrased)

One can be elect and not yet regenerate, or one can be elect and regenerated. But the elect will always be saved because they will not die before the Holy Spirit gives them a heart of flesh, just like the thief on the cross.

The non-elect will never come to Christ because, well, they just don't want to. They will go through life thinking they are good enough, they just don't need Christ.

Election is throughout Scripture, but especially Romans 8:28-Romans 9 and in Ephesians 1.

Interesting Saint Paul knew the objections to Sovereign Grace, just like he seems to in his other writings, and answers them on Romans 9.

21 posted on 09/06/2010 6:30:04 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: RnMomof7

**I was not saved as a Catholic**

Oh, yes, you were. But you might have been an infant and didn’t know it.

Baptism is the Sacrament through which every Catholic can say, “Yes, I am saved.”

However, we have free will and do sin. And I guess this is thing I don’t get about Calvinism. It seems that people think that the “elect” don’t sin.

Maybe I am wrong because I am just learning about Calvinism, but everyone has free will and can turn their back on God. I would say even those who might call themselves “the elect” might do this.

Once saved — always saved — just doesn’t seem true with human nature.


22 posted on 09/06/2010 6:36:53 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

How do you know for sure?


23 posted on 09/06/2010 6:37:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

I guess my point is that humans don’t think as God thinks, so this “elect” thing just doesn’t ring true to me.


24 posted on 09/06/2010 6:38:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

It’s just a dictionary and a Catholic one at that. What do you expect? Miracles? LOL!


25 posted on 09/06/2010 6:39:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

Not according to my understanding.

**The basic principles of Calvinism are set forth in the Institutes of the Christian Religion, where Calvin argues...**

This makes it sound as though these Institues of Christians Religion are a “Calvin” thing.


26 posted on 09/06/2010 6:41:50 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

**Election is throughout Scripture**

Election is through Scripture? Or just mentioned in Scripture?

To me, the particular judgment, at the moment I die, will let me know if I am heaven-bound (or as Calvin would phrase it “elect”, or hell-bound — or as Calvin would phrase it ?the non-elected or unelected”


27 posted on 09/06/2010 6:44:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock; RnMomof7

Doesn’t Christ always encourage EVERYONE to be heaven-bound? But as this last Sunday’s Gospel put it: unless you leave everyone and everything behind and focus only on serving the Lord with your life, you will not follow him.

He also tells us that we must carry or Cross — not a death symbol, as RNmom mentioned to me, but a symbol of the daily sufferings we go through........


28 posted on 09/06/2010 6:47:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Jesus said he would be in Paradise.

That made the thief, by definition, elect.


29 posted on 09/06/2010 7:11:04 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Salvation

Your argument is with God. Not me

All I can do is point you back to Scripture.

Esp Romans 8:28-Romans 9 and Ephesians 1.


30 posted on 09/06/2010 7:12:48 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Salvation
Doesn’t Christ always encourage EVERYONE to be heaven-bound?

Sure He does.

And the elect have ears and will hear. Jesus also said: “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12-13)

He also tells us that we must carry or Cross

Sure he does. Not sure what that has to do with election though.

31 posted on 09/06/2010 7:17:36 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Gamecock

**Sure he does. Not sure what that has to do with election though. **

OK, let’s say you are among the “supposed” elect. But you refuse to suffer (Carry your own Cross) and instead choose assisted suicide.

To me, this person would no longer be among the “supposed elect.”

And it could happen. No such thing as pre-destination, because God always waits for the sinner. Even up to the death-bed conversions.


32 posted on 09/06/2010 7:22:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
To me, the particular judgment, at the moment I die, will let me know if I am heaven-bound

I know.

And that is one of the sad distinctions between the Reformed and the Catholics.

We know where we are going. There is no fine print in Scripture. We are assured every Sunday that if we place our faith in Christ alone our sins, and not in our own works, we are forgiven and we are saved.

It must be hard going through life with the only assurance given to us being that we will one day die and only then find out if we measured up.

33 posted on 09/06/2010 7:22:53 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Gamecock

And Scripture says, “Many are called, but few are chosen.”

There goes the “elect” system. I am going by what Scripture says.


34 posted on 09/06/2010 7:23:52 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

I just thought of something else.

Does “elect” mean that you are called to heaven?

What if one refuses the call and becomes addicted to pornography, gambling, over=spending, drugs, you name it?


35 posted on 09/06/2010 7:25:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
OK, let’s say you are among the “supposed” elect. But you refuse to suffer (Carry your own Cross) and instead choose assisted suicide.

Christ died for all sins. Past, present and future. Bible sez so.

To me, this person would no longer be among the “supposed elect.”

Fortunately, we are not the judge.

And it could happen. No such thing as pre-destination, because God always waits for the sinner. Even up to the death-bed conversions.

Predestination is in the Bible.

God waiting for EVERY sinner is not. God draws his own.

Just like any other conversion, God in the person of the Holy Spirit drives the death bed conversion.

Again, your argument is with Scripture and therefore God.

36 posted on 09/06/2010 7:27:19 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Gamecock

:>)


37 posted on 09/06/2010 7:32:46 PM PDT by irishtenor (Tag lines, they are not what they used to be...)
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What Is Your Effect on the Community?

September 6th, 2010 by Monsignor Dennis Clark

1 Cor 5:1-8 / Lk 6:6-11

What is your long-term effect on the community? There’s an old saying about one rotten apple spoiling a whole barrel, and it’s true.  We can see it on a sports team, in a classroom, and even on the freeway.  The power of our good or bad example to influence the people around us is too often underrated.

In today’s epistle, St. Paul is worrying about the likely consequences of the conspicuous misbehavior of one member of the community at Corinth.  “A little yeast has its effect all through the dough,” he frets.  And he’s right.  Every one of us, no matter how small or virtually invisible, has our effect on the family.

So it’s fair to ask, what effect is our way of living, speaking, driving, working, praying, sharing or not sharing, having on the people around us?  Are we encouraging or discouraging them?  Do they walk more readily and confidently with the Lord because we are here, or do they pull away because of us?

God has given each of us great power for good in the force of our example.  How are we using that power?


38 posted on 09/06/2010 7:37:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
***Does “elect” mean that you are called to heaven?***

In a sense, yes.

Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

As you see in the above, God does it all. He loves us first, He conforms us, he justifies, sanctifies and glorifies us. All we bring is our sinful lives.

***What if one refuses the call and becomes addicted to pornography, gambling, over=spending, drugs, you name it?***

See the above. God, over time will work that out in us. And it boggles the mind that at judgement we are judged rightous, because that is what we are in Christ.

I would suggest it is easy to look at the sin in others and use those as the example, but there are a myriad of sins that are referred to by Jerry Bridges as "Respectable Sins." Those are the sins that we tend to brush under the rug. White lies, telling someone what someone else did (aka gossip) etc.

As Christian should look inwards first and cry out for mercy/help on those before we start worrying about the sins of others.

39 posted on 09/06/2010 7:37:44 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: Gamecock

Where is the word “Presdestination” in the Bible?

Protestants always ask about Purgatory not being in the Bible......now how about predestination.


40 posted on 09/06/2010 7:38:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Gamecock

**God waiting for EVERY sinner is not. God draws his own.**

But God created everyone equal. It’s man that makes himself/herself unequal through sinning.


41 posted on 09/06/2010 7:44:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Predestination talks of God's choosing. The concept is there over and over and over, regardless of the amount of times the word "predestine" is used (though it is used). As for purgatory, our complaint isn't for the lack of the word, but to the fact that it just ain't there.

For your peace of mind, though, here.

Now, for my peace of mind, a more thorough explanation of the doctrine of Unconditional Election (with Scriptural Proofs), here, here, and here.
42 posted on 09/07/2010 7:29:43 AM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write"-Jerome (Against Vigilantius))
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To: Salvation
OK, let’s say you are among the “supposed” elect. But you refuse to suffer (Carry your own Cross) and instead choose assisted suicide.

Am I missing something, or is not the obvious answer, "Then, they weren't really among the elect in the first place?" Again, we can't know who is among the elect. Reread Mt 7:

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

No one can say who is elect. But your failure to do the will of Jesus' Father in heaven is a pretty good sign you are not. I would put suicide in there.

43 posted on 09/07/2010 8:39:26 AM PDT by naturalized
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To: Salvation

What does the word “chosen” in your dictionary mean, who do you think does the chosing, and how can you not see that this very Scripture proves the doctrine of election?


44 posted on 09/07/2010 8:40:59 AM PDT by naturalized
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To: naturalized

I guess I just don’t agree with this “elect” business.

God loves everyone.


45 posted on 09/07/2010 9:05:35 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Of course He loves everyone, but some He destroys:

Moses then left Pharaoh and prayed to the LORD. 19 And the LORD changed the wind to a very strong west wind, which caught up the locusts and carried them into the Red Sea. Not a locust was left anywhere in Egypt. 20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go. - Exodus 10.

For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses. - Joshua 11.

9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“ ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’

10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

11 Then I said, “For how long, O Lord?”
And he answered:
“Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,

12 until the LORD has sent everyone far away
and the land is utterly forsaken. — Isaiah 6


46 posted on 09/07/2010 11:46:29 AM PDT by naturalized
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To: Salvation

Except for the one’s he hates, right?


47 posted on 09/07/2010 2:38:39 PM PDT by raynearhood ("As for you, when wide awake you are asleep, and asleep when you write"-Jerome (Against Vigilantius))
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To: Salvation

***But God created everyone equal. It’s man that makes himself/herself unequal through sinning.***

Forgetting about original sin?

We are all wretches.


48 posted on 09/07/2010 7:24:44 PM PDT by Gamecock (Mormonism: The more you know the goofier it is!)
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To: raynearhood; don-o
I have a Calvinist friend who sings in a shape-notes group with my husband and me. Nice as pie, and one of the rare and delightful people who can sing and smile at the same time.

But I keep thinking of how odd it would be if he were to speak to us on the love of God: what would he say?

("Jesus loves you... maybe...or on the other hand, maybe you were created to be damned with no hope whatsoever...")

Could he say that and smile at the same time?

So I think perhaps he is a... oh, what was that word? It's a new term somebody invented to mean the opposite of a hypocrite: that is to say, a person who publicly espouses a bad ideal, but actually doesn't live down to it.

A person who secretly practices a lot better than they preach.

Super-crite? Epi-crite?

He seems a good deal more likeable than his god.

49 posted on 09/12/2010 2:26:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks the reason for the hope you have." 1 Peter 3:15)
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To: Salvation; All

Predestinated” IS in the Bible

The word “Predestinated” IS in the Bible if you care to look at Ephesians 1:4-5 [but don't try seeking it in Latin]

Ephesians 1:4-5 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.

The word "Purgatory" is not found in the Bible. The Bible correctly and accurately only describes Heaven and Hell. Destination choice is made while alive on planet earth; upon death, our faith is sealed.

For when a Bible believing saint of God does die, they will only go to Heaven directly to be with the Lord face to face; Christians seek Heaven. Period. No Purgatory involved.

Except, Catholics...well, apparently, long ago Catholics needed a purgatory since they concluded from so many apparitions that they would not go to heaven with all their venial sins...and some mortal sins I'm sure as well...therefore, purgatory becomes so sort of salvation while dead in the grave...

Calvinism IS Correct

Therefore, Calvinism is absolutely correct about God having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself. The 5 point of Calvinism are all correct as far as I have fully read all of John Calvin correct Bible doctrine. TULIP is absolutely correct about Bible believing saints [declared by God, not man or pope]; I am a saint declared by God alone; and I know my salvation to Heaven is absolutely secure as what God and Christ have said in the whole Bible; especially Romans through Philemon for us today.

50 posted on 10/20/2010 10:44:40 PM PDT by bibletruth
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