Posted on 09/06/2010 6:15:11 PM PDT by markomalley
Monsignor Guido Marini, Papal Master of Ceremonies, confirms in an interview with Scotland’s Herald newspaper today that during his visit to Britain Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate the Prefaces and Canons of all his Masses in Latin, “to emphasise the universality of the faith and the continuity of the Church”.
The Canon (Eucharistic Prayer) is the heart of the Mass, during which the priest consecrates and elevates the Host. There can be little doubt that Marini has put his foot down. Having already stopped liturgical philistines from subjecting the Pope to various musical horrors, he is now sending a clear – and, one suspects, deeply unwelcome – message to English, Welsh and Scottish bishops who actively discourage the celebration of Mass in Latin.
There’s particular fury among the diehard modernisers of Scotland, I gather, who have waged a sneaky battle to banish traditional worship from the Bellahouston Mass. They are now reduced to quibbling about the number of candles on the Glasgow altar, protesting at the Pope’s wish for six or seven on the grounds that… actually, I don’t know. Too Popish, perhaps?
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
Wow! Double wow! Triple wow!
Yes- time to emphasize the Tridentine Mass and end the New Age incursions of swaying and dancing to sacred music.
Bravo Benedetto!!!
Eviva il Papa!
Amazing! Arguing about the deckchairs on the ship to hell! I hope there are plenty of English preaching lifegaurds nearby throwing out lifelines to those in eternal need....
Sola scriptura. Sola Gratia. Sola Fide. Sola Deo Gloria!
Beware the “anti-Catholic” flaming label.
Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are anti-scriptural lies invented by a man who thought people should indulge their most wicked desires and advocated the democide of 30 million peasants. So please don’t quote Satanically possessed men like Luther around threads about the true, Catholic Church founded by Christ.
Your response indicates a fundamental ignorance. Allow me to help you out.
Christians believe an old saying (either consciously or unconsciously). The saying is: lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
It could be expressed in English as follows: as we pray, we believe. As we believe, we live.
This is not a matter of arguing about deckchairs, as much as you would like it to be. This is a matter of the restoration of fundamental, traditional values and a rejection of the modernism that has plagued Christ’s Church for the past 100 years or more. This will energize those tradition-minded Christians who have been beaten down by the modernists and will help steel them to take back Christ’s Church from the modernist “reformers” who have attempted to weaken the Teachings of Christ at the false altars of ecumenism and political correctness.
I can appreciate that a Calvinist would not comprehend that. Hopefully the above sets it in its proper context.
One would think that Protestants could appreciate the situation. Mainstream denominations were infiltrated and almost destoyed by liberals. In response, many Protestants abandoned the mainstream to form kind of a leaderless resistance consisting of “nondenominational” churches. That strategy is not open to Catholics. The closest thing we have are the Society of St. Pius X and Sedevacantist chapels.
Much better handled than I.
Your response indicates a fundamental ignorance. Allow me to help you out.
Christians believe an old saying (either consciously or unconsciously). The saying is: lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
It could be expressed in English as follows: as we pray, we believe. As we believe, we live.
This is not a matter of arguing about deckchairs, as much as you would like it to be. This is a matter of the restoration of fundamental, traditional values and a rejection of the modernism that has plagued Christ’s Church for the past 100 years or more. This will energize those tradition-minded Christians who have been beaten down by the modernists and will help steel them to take back Christ’s Church from the modernist “reformers” who have attempted to weaken the Teachings of Christ at the false altars of ecumenism and political correctness.
I can appreciate that a Calvinist would not comprehend that. Hopefully the above sets it in its proper context.
:-)
There is SO much wrong with what you said, I don’t know where to begin. No use to adress most of it.
First — I know what the statement “lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi” means. Your asumption that I am either a modernist seeking to weaken the “Teachings of Christ” or ecumenist given to “political correctness” are both in error.
By the way — the teachings of Christ — did Our Lord deliver those in the original Latin? Just thought I’d ask for clarification....
Your most laughable assumption is that I am a Calvinist. Not even close! Why is it assumed that any and all of those who claim the mantle of “Reformation” must necessarily buy into the monstrosities built by Calvin and particularly his immediate theological descendents and passed off as “The Protestant Doctrine of Soteriology?”
You assume too much, my dear Catholic friends. Like, that I speak from the perspective of Luther (I do not), or Calvin (I do not). Though, I have some appreciate for their study — digging through a millennium of theological confusion in an attempt to rediscover Biblical Truth APART from the corruptions of human and institutional corruptions takes a lot of hard work — and these men were FAR from perfect!
You would also assume too much if you thought I was merely a Catholic flamer who simply hates all things to do with the Roman Church. Again, not true. Had it not been for the towering intellect and the deep faith of some within the Western Church from the 2nd century until the time of the Reformation (and, indeed, some since!) the Gospel would not have been preserved, at least not in the forms we have it in our cultures, and in many areas of the Earth Christianity would be a dead religion altogether.
I appreciate the Catholic Church for what is was — and is. It is a human and fallible institution, having seen great victories and great defeats, depending on its yieldedness to the True Master of the Church. The Church of Jesus Christ is His Body, His Bride, and belongs to Him alone. The language of the liturgies & prayers, and the numbers of candles & crosses do not matter to HIm, for “Man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh upon the heart” (I Samuel 16:7b).
Blessings...
Why would we want to adopt that strategy anyways? It sucks.
Go Panzerkardinel! Let the German pope knock some heads about!
“Our Lord deliver those in the original Latin?”
Right alongside the Sermon on the mount where he tells everyone that the righteous shall live by faith, alone.
Oh wait, he never does say that, does he? Odd that.
Without even getting into the rest of your post - since I don’t think an argument of that nature is particularly relevant to this thread - I don’t think you understand that the Pope’s use of Latin is meant to address an internal Church matter and to show fidelity to the past and make it clear that the Church respects Her history and tradition; he’s not advocating that we all take up reading Cicero in the original.
It is also possible that he doesn’t like the English translation (I don’t know if they’re using the new one or the old one, the latter of which had serious defects, particularly in its translation of the Canon) and is using Latin to make a statement.
In any case, the most likely reason is that he his responding to the disobedience of the English and Scottish bishops. He issued a document permitting the use of the old form of the Mass some 3 years ago, and the (very liberal) English and Scottish bishops have simply refused to implement it or permit the priests and faithful to exercise their right to this form of the mass. He’s not celebrating the Old Mass, to my knowledge, but the use of Latin in the New Mass, in those particular parts, is certainly a message of his support and it will be understood as such by the sulky, rebellious bishops.
So why do you favor Latin for your “solas”? Just curious . . . wouldn’t they be better stated in the vernacular?
The Eucharist is the center of our faith. Yes that's right, Catholics have faith, too. It's our faith that impels us to obey the Lord's command as we have done since that first night in the upper room just before the Passion and Death of Our Lord.
Denial of the sacrificial nature of the Mass is a 16th century novelty, that has sadly been embraced by far too many. Our faith is nourished by this heavenly food which numerous miracles have attested is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus Himself.
Leave the Calvinists and the Arminians out of this.
“Our Lord deliver those in the original Latin?”
Right alongside the Sermon on the mount where he tells everyone that the righteous shall live by faith, alone.
Oh wait, he never does say that, does he? Odd that.
That was Saint Paul — Ephesians 2:8,9. He wasn’t the “first Pope,” but his words were inspired, were they not?
So why do you favor Latin for your “solas”? Just curious . . . wouldn’t they be better stated in the vernacular?
I was just communicating in a language my Catholic friends seem to prefer. :-) Scripture Alone. Grace Alone. Faith Alone. For the Glory of God Alone. English works for me just as well — but it’s ALL for HIM, regardless of the language, wouldn’t you agree?
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