Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ


TOPICS: Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: reformation; savedbygrace
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 6,551-6,6006,601-6,6506,651-6,700 ... 7,351-7,356 next last
To: annalex
Where did I spin John 3:16? You don't think you have to do what Jesus says?

Where did you spin it? How about "John 3:16 simply says that you have to believe Christ in order to be saved by Christ. So you have, among other things, [to] do what He says and that includes the good works that He teaches". That verse doesn't say "believe Christ", it says "That whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." You put the spin on in and merely proved that you were doing what you claim Protestants do. Do you see my point now?

6,601 posted on 01/03/2011 8:51:01 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6596 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE; count-your-change; RnMomof7; boatbums; metmom
The bread remained bread and the wine remained wine

Which scripture says that? Matthew 26:26-28 surely doesn't. "This is my body"; "This is my blood".

6,602 posted on 01/03/2011 8:52:26 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6052 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE; boatbums; RnMomof7; metmom; blue-duncan; Iscool; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy
Luke was a Jew

LOL. Re-read Col. 4:11ff.

6,603 posted on 01/03/2011 8:56:06 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6053 | View Replies]

To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change
when Jesus took the bread and said, *This is my body* and when he took the cup and said *This is my blood* He didn't really mean that the bread was ONLY His flesh and the cup was ONLY His blood?

They are when the Eucharist is consecrated, body and blood separate, to "show the death of Jesus" (1 Cor.11:26). When the Eucharist is offered, a fragment of consecrated Bred is dropped into the consecrated Wine, uniting the two in the Resurrection. When we consume either one, it is whole resurrected Christ again, and one does partake of both regardless of the manner of receiving. Good question, thanks.

6,604 posted on 01/03/2011 9:01:11 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6056 | View Replies]

To: annalex

“the Church” in annalexology is the Catholic Church. But the comparison of the actions of the Catholic Church to “the Church” reveal no similarity. for example the williness to approve torture. Christian teaching or Catholic teaching?

The New Testament canon needed no Catholic council to establish it.


6,605 posted on 01/03/2011 9:04:14 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6583 | View Replies]

To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change
[Cites from 1 Cor. 11]

It is actually OR, not AND in verse 27, and eating EITHER one unworthily results in a state of being "guilty of the body AND of the blood of the Lord". No matter what species you take unworthily, the guilt is of both body and the blood.

At the same time, both the bread AND the chalice "show the death of the Lord" so the use of the prepositions is consistent with the Catholic practice.

That is a well-known Protestant forgery designed to critique communion in one species.

6,606 posted on 01/03/2011 9:09:21 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6059 | View Replies]

To: annalex; count-your-change
The Holy Eucharist is not a repetition or performance of anything.
It is usually a good idea to know a thing or two about the subject upon which you wish to opine.

Well, from the "horse's mouth":

1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit:

[Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory."

6,607 posted on 01/03/2011 9:10:47 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6600 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Can you then name one teaching of Christ that was so “clarified” [by the fathers]? and how?

Off the top of my head, the meaning of universal Church was clarified by the Letter to the Smyrneans by St. Igantius of Antioch when he linked it to belief in the Eucharist and obedience to the bishop, thus rendering false the modern notion in some sects that they are "catholic".

In another example, the perverse Calvinist idea that man has no free will was dealt away with in Irenaeus: St. Irenaeus on Free Will (Adversus Haereses IV,37)

Every day I post the original Gospel and the Latin Gospel for the day, for example, Catholic Caucus: Daily Mass Readings, 01-03-11, Opt. Mem. Most Holy Name of Jesus. Having posted the texts I post the relevant patristic quotes in the next post, and then some art. You can follow these around and see for yourself how the Fathers of the Church clarify the scripture. The link to an excellent collection of patristic quotes organized by the Gospel verse is in my signature, if you want to do it at your own pace.

6,608 posted on 01/03/2011 9:20:16 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6097 | View Replies]

To: boatbums

It’s never too much trouble to recognize hypocrisy.

And the Catholics make it so easy.


6,609 posted on 01/03/2011 9:22:25 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6594 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Yes it does. Jesus broke the loaf and handed IT to the disciples.
Vs. 29 Jesus calls the contents of the cup, “This product of the vine”, i.e., wine.

If you can post pages of Greek text then surely you can use a lexicon.


6,610 posted on 01/03/2011 9:26:02 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6602 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; annalex; count-your-change
1323 "At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet 'in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.'"133

1370 To the offering of Christ are united not only the members still here on earth, but also those already in the glory of heaven. In communion with and commemorating the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints, the Church offers the Eucharistic sacrifice. In the Eucharist the Church is as it were at the foot of the cross with Mary, united with the offering and intercession of Christ.

That's so ridiculous. Humans didn't offer Christ as a sacrifice to God.

The only human contribution and participation to the death of Christ is putting Him on the cross and essentially pounding the nails in His hands.

Jesus was not a sacrifice offered by men to God for their sins because the lambs weren't good enough. It wasn't man's idea nor man's doing.

6,611 posted on 01/03/2011 9:42:46 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6607 | View Replies]

To: caww
the Apostles and Peter are not here on earth...they died a physical death and are home with the Lord. One can "believe" the departed are accessible to us [...] But "believing' does not mean it's reality

It is a scriptural reality: Christ calls them gaining life by losing it (Matthew 10:39, John 12:24-25). They are capable of rejoicing (Psalm 149:5-9, Rev 18:20). They "shall judge this world" (1 Cor 6:2, Jude 1:14). We "ask for the saints according to God" (Romans 8:27); They "lay aside every weight and sin which surrounds us" (Heb. 12:1); their prayers reach God (Rev. 5:8, 8:3f).

6,612 posted on 01/04/2011 5:18:31 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6107 | View Replies]

To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change
If Catholics are going to insist on the literal meaning of the body and blood statements, then in the spirit of honest interpretation done with integrity and consistency, then ALL of the passage must be interpreted in the same sense

No, that doesn't follow. We read the Bible literally when it is written in literal sense; when it is written allegorically, we shoudl take it allegorically. We shoudl always take it as written, but it does not mean ignotring allegory when allegory is intended.

the sections that say that he who eats will never die, MUST mean that physical death does not occur.

Let us examine what it actually says (You verse numbering may be one off). "If any man eat of it, he may not die" indeed contrasts the death that the Jews who were given the manna experienced to the absence of death of a Christian (vv 49-50). Two points on that, before we move on. When these words were spoken the Jews who exscaped from Egypt were dead in every sense. They both experienced death and they remained in Sheol, the abode of the dead. So that a Christian shall "not die" is a reference to the fact that a Christian who experiences death nevertheless lives with God from the moment he dies, and will be raised up in the body at the last day. See John 12:24-25, James 5:15 and verses 40, 44, 55 of this chapter).

The other references in John 6 are not to "not dying" but having "everlasting life", "living for ever", being "raised up on the last day", "living with Christ". They are clearly references to the life following death and not absence of physical death. That is, of course, consistent with the other referecnes to eternal life and something that goes past death without denying that physical death occurs (John 12:24-25, James 5:15, again).

6,613 posted on 01/04/2011 5:33:16 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6109 | View Replies]

To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change
Everyone who has died a physical death is alive somewhere

In Hell, often (Mt. 25:41). John 6, by the way, does not say that those who do not receive the Eucharist all go to hell. Indeed, since we are judged by our works it is possible to reach sainthood by your works. There are even canonized saints who were not yet baptized and therefore not yet receving the Eucharist when they were martyred. The Eucharist is said to give us eternal life as a sure way to heaven, but not the only way.

6,614 posted on 01/04/2011 5:37:49 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6110 | View Replies]

To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change
If it's not in Scripture, it's not infallible

Says who? Besides, there are facts that are true historical facts not inthe scripture. The assassination of Julius Caesar, for example, is not in the scripture, but it did happen.

When they can get their act together and start acting like the Christ they claim to represent, then they'll gain some credibility

So you don't believe the Church. You are free to do so. However, the behavior of some members of the Church, -- some as awful and un-Christlike as to leave the Church altogether! -- has no bearing on her witness to particulars of the life of Virgin Mother Mary 2,000 years ago.

6,615 posted on 01/04/2011 5:42:35 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6113 | View Replies]

To: metmom
It does say, however, that after she gave birth, she and Joseph had sex.

No it doesn't. Here's the entire text, no mentioning of what they did after Jesus was born altogether:

[18] Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. [19] Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. [20] But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost. [21] And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins. [22] Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: [23] Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. [24] And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. [25] And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Mathew 1)

Most that you can conclude is tht they lived together under the same roof and traveled together, but even that we know from other scripture -- Matthew 2 and Luke 2.

6,616 posted on 01/04/2011 5:46:42 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6114 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr
for many outside the Church, the meaning of Communion of Saints has been lost

This allows me to say that Protestant faith, for all the chest-beating about interest in the scripture, is grossly defective and unscriptural, since Communion of Saints is a biblical concept.

6,617 posted on 01/04/2011 5:52:35 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6118 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
Where did this “knowledge” come from? I ask. And When?

Ther historical knowledge of the Church regarding Mary started with the Apostles and the Evangleists. Scripture tells us that Mary lived with St. John the Evangelist. St. Luke somehow gained knowledge of her youth, one that had no public witness, including the ability to cite verbatim her Magnificat prayer (Luke 1:46-55). This indicates the St. Luke received that knowledge, most likely, from Mary directly, or perhaps from someone closely associated with her.

6,618 posted on 01/04/2011 5:53:48 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6119 | View Replies]

To: D-fendr; metmom
You are the first I’ve seen level the same type of charge against Jesus Christ in regards to the Holy Eucharist though

The arguments of anti-Catholics about John 6 in general follow the pattern of the very Jews in that chapter who abandoned Jesus in the end.

6,619 posted on 01/04/2011 5:55:46 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6121 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212
it is a faith which works by love that is salvific which the Reformers taught.

Then it is not faith "alone". I am fine, by the way, with the Joint Declaration on Justification that clarifies that the differences betweent he Lutherans and the Catholics on Justification are mostly matter of terminology. But no other Protestant denomination joined Lutherans in that, and the insistence on (1) works being separated from salvation acheived in one's life at the point of conversion, and (2) produced by one already irrevocably saved -- is very common, just review this thread. Again, if you and the denomination you belong to agree with the Declaration and disagree with the Faith Alone nonsense, then I congratulate you. Why don't you start explaining that works are an unseparable part of saving faith to your fellow Protestants rather than defending their heresies wholesale?

6,620 posted on 01/04/2011 6:04:13 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6122 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr; kosta50
The Tridentine Mass was the Novus Ordo of 1570.

Well, kinda sorta.

As kosta pointed out it was in use since the end of the sixth century and was "oficially" formalized at the Council of Trent.

In any event whenever it was practiced and wherever it was practiced it was "new". Many Catholics seem to believe the Latin Mass was practiced from the beginning.

6,621 posted on 01/04/2011 8:01:44 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6570 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
Of course Catholic "revenence" (sic) may be a Catholicspeak word which means "wild and crazy guys".

Umm, reverence, of course. I'm not recognizing the two in this photoshopped pic.

I knew you meant "reverence" my son but couldn't resist the impulse to pull your chain. :-)

Those two guys were showing reverence at a typical Catholic Charismatic Mass. (Not true.)

6,622 posted on 01/04/2011 8:11:28 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6571 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator

Apologies. Could you tell me what was “personal” in my post?


6,623 posted on 01/04/2011 8:13:03 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6597 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
Lets ask for something which the Vatican should have no moral or legal opposition to. For instance, the Vatican Archives! After all, the Vatican has nothing to hide.

I was under the impression that they were being slowly opened. Is it the speed to which you object?

I suspect, for one reason or another, they will never be completely opened.

I must say that I am very impressed with the state of your teeth - a little yellow around the canines, but appearing to be in very good shape.

That's my cat you ninny. She lost her teeth and I made use of a set of false teeth left behind by my grandmother.

6,624 posted on 01/04/2011 8:16:49 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6572 | View Replies]

To: metmom; boatbums
If you bring it up again, you haven't forgiven either

Doesn't follow. It was brought up in proper context. Being reminded is not the same as being accused again.

6,625 posted on 01/04/2011 8:19:53 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6591 | View Replies]

To: kosta50; presently no screen name; boatbums
FYI This is a Catholic Mass

Sure, in order to keep Catholics from leaving the Church in huge numbers, the RCC finally gave in to the the mostly Filipino and Latino demands in 2003 to allow this. These people make up 120 million (10%) of Romes' 1.2 billion members.

In America these offshoots come mostly from Notre Dame and Duquesne ultra liberal centers.

None of this changes the fact that this is unrecognizable to the Church in the East or the West, at least from the 3rd century onward, or that it is pagan-like worship.

Excuses, excuses. Wouldn't it be easier to admit it happens in the "unchanging" Catholic Church?
6,626 posted on 01/04/2011 8:21:55 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6573 | View Replies]

To: kosta50; MarkBsnr
The Tridentine Mass was the Novus Ordo of 1570.

LOL! OR you can do better than that. The TLM was the Roman Mass since the end of the 6th century, instituted by Pope St. Gregory I (aka known as the Great). At Trent it was made mandatory (or "ordinary") for all except for some very ancient liturgies, such as the Mozarabic (in Spain), etc.

Prior to TLM, the Latin Church used Alexandrian and Antiochan (Eastern) liturgies. And up to the 3rd century its liturgy was in Greek.

It became "official" in 1570. That's what I said.

Prior to 1950 Catholics could agrue and disagree concerning the Bodily Assumption of Mary. After 1950 BANG! no more discussion allowed.

Prattle as much as you wish about "always believed", etc. it was cast in concrete in 1950.

6,627 posted on 01/04/2011 8:32:29 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6574 | View Replies]

To: kosta50

It was making the thread “about” the other Freeper which is also a form of “making it personal.”


6,628 posted on 01/04/2011 8:32:52 AM PST by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6623 | View Replies]

To: annalex; Kolokotronis; metmom; count-your-change
Each time the question is raised, "why wouldn't the Pope just order X", that is the answer. The bishops are sovereign princes of their dioceses. We are held together by faith kept in common, not by command and control structures.

The Pope "owns" the Bishops in that he has sole authority to hire and fire them. If that is not a command and control structure what is?

6,629 posted on 01/04/2011 8:37:14 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6576 | View Replies]

To: kosta50; count-your-change; metmom; Kolokotronis
As to being arrested for proselytizing, that may very well be true. Protestant Christians have no business in Christian Greece. Your missionaries should go where Christ is unknown.

A skunk by any other name is still a skunk.

6,630 posted on 01/04/2011 8:41:37 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6581 | View Replies]

To: annalex; kosta50; metmom; Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan
any "Catholic" Bible written since the Douay Rheims is the work of the Devil

Not "any", but the so called "dynamic" translations certainly are. Douay is word-for-word Vulgate and Vulgate is the result of Jerome's work before some codices went missing, and in the living environment of 4c Palestine. There are problems with that as well, but on balance, there is no better window to the Greek original in English today than Douay. unless you are prepared to struggle with Young's Literal, or, best of all, learn Greek.

That is if you want to do, in the spirit of Protestantism, all the work for yourself from scratch. If, on the other hand, you are willing to accept a historical authority, listen to the Catholic (and/or Orthodox) Church and you will know exactly not only what the scripture says but also what it means. Then the blandest, most cursory and aerodynamic stuff like NAB would still become useful, because you read it with the eye of the Church.

Blather!

When did the Greek Church, if they have done so yet, adopt an English language Bible? If so, which version is it? I guarantee you it is not, and never will be the Douay Rheins.

6,631 posted on 01/04/2011 8:51:10 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6585 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator; boatbums

Thank you RM. Again, my apoliogies to boatbums.


6,632 posted on 01/04/2011 8:51:39 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6628 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE

skunk who?


6,633 posted on 01/04/2011 8:52:43 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6630 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE

Under those long black robes are tall black jack boots in “Christian” Greece. Yipppeeee skipppeee!!!!


6,634 posted on 01/04/2011 8:57:29 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6630 | View Replies]

To: kosta50; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
Have you ever read the Greek constitution? I doubt it. Nothing in it establishes Eastern Orthodoxy as the "state" religion. Church and state are separate.

Then they have no reason to be arresting anyone for "proselytizing".

The Greeks are among the most religious people in Europe. The number of people who believe in God is equal or higher than in the United States of America. Only Malta and Poland come close.

Big deal. Being *religious* means nothing. Lots of people are *religious* and it doesn't get them anywhere because it's not faith in Christ. It's essentially a vaccine against true faith as people trust in it and feel good about themselves, lulling them into a false sense of security by causing them to think they're actually doing something productive in regard to their afterlife.

Orthodoxy is deeply intertwined with Greek culture, so that much of folklore also has Orthodoxy in it. The two are inseparable, as Judaism is inseparable from Israel.

Let me see now. Greek is the most highly *religious* country in Europe with its religious beliefs intertwined with its society, like Judaism, and yet they manage to divorce it completely from politics, but still arrest someone one for *proselytizing*.

Do you seriously expect us to believe that they divorce their religious beliefs which are so intertwined with their culture from their politics.

Give us a break. Not buying it.

As to being arrested for proselytizing, that may very well be true. Protestant Christians have no business in Christian Greece. Your missionaries should go where Christ is unknown.

They did.

Religion notwithstanding.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

This is the perfect example of what a Catholic influenced country is like in regard to freedom of religion and what a Protestant influenced country like the US is like in regard to freedom of religion.

Predominantly Catholic countries have very little religious freedom. Predominantly Protestant countries do.

6,635 posted on 01/04/2011 9:02:16 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6581 | View Replies]

To: metmom

WELL PUT.

Been there.

I don’t think it’s divorced either. Our guide didn’t think so either.


6,636 posted on 01/04/2011 9:09:57 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6635 | View Replies]

To: annalex

Mary living with John and her reply to Elizabeth are found in Luke and are available to all. It is not special to the Catholic Church.


6,637 posted on 01/04/2011 9:13:35 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6618 | View Replies]

To: boatbums; annalex

Thanks for the reply, boatbums.

“1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice:...”

So the sacrifice of the Eucharist came first? It “made present” Christ’s sacrifice before it happened. Really, annalex, really?


6,638 posted on 01/04/2011 9:27:24 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6607 | View Replies]

To: metmom; Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
Then they have no reason to be arresting anyone for "proselytizing"

Do you know their laws? Do you know why they are being arrested, (if they are being arrested!)?

Big deal. Being *religious* means nothing. Lots of people are *religious* and it doesn't get them anywhere because it's not faith in Christ

Greeks are 99% Christian.

people trust in it and feel good about themselves, lulling them into a false sense of security by causing them to think they're actually doing something productive in regard to their afterlife

The same can be said about Christians. Have you been to "afterlife"?

Greek [sic] is the most highly *religious* country in Europe with its religious beliefs intertwined with its society, like Judaism, and yet they manage to divorce it completely from politics, but still arrest someone one for *proselytizing*.

Who said they completely divorce it from politics? We don't, why should they? Again, you are saying they are arresting posleyutizers (examples please), but don;t mention on what charges. Israel arrests missionaries too when they break Israeli laws and nobody in the Protestant community says about it.

Again, there is no one to "proselytize" to in Greece. They are 99% Christian. The Protestant missionaries need to go where the population and the culture is not Christian.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

Oy, not again! In "last days"? Paul believed Jesus was coming back real soon. Guess what, he was wrong! If he was wrong on that, why should he be right on anything else?

Also, when was there time when people were not lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy?

This is the perfect example of what a Catholic influenced country is like in regard to freedom of religion

LOL! Catholic-influenced? Greece?

and what a Protestant influenced country like the US is like in regard to freedom of religion

Can you show me where in the Greek Constitution it says there is no freedom of religion?

Predominantly Catholic countries have very little religious freedom. Predominantly Protestant countries do

I hope you don't represent an average Protestant. If you did, I think that would be very troubling. Austria is a predominantly Catholic, so is France, Spain, Poland, Italy, Ireland, Malta, etc.

6,639 posted on 01/04/2011 9:38:31 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6635 | View Replies]

To: kosta50
a predominantly Catholic=a predominantly Catholic country.
6,640 posted on 01/04/2011 9:39:46 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6639 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Constitutions are easily ignored unless there is strong enforcement.

Some easily checked examples of state religions existing under constitutions that supposedly guaranteed religious freedom:

www.wordiq.com/definition/Proselytizing

“Issues involving proselytism
Since the collapse of the former Soviet Union and the rise of democracy in the Eastern Block, the Russian Orthodox Church has enjoyed a revival. However, it takes exception to what it considers illegitimate proselytizing by the Roman Catholic Church, the Salvation Army, Jehovah’s Witnesses and other religious movements [2] in what it refers to as its canonical territory.
Greece has a long history of conflict, mostly with Jehovah’s Witnesses but also with some Pentecostals over its laws on proselytism. This situation stems from a law passed in the 1930s by the dictator Ioannis Metaxas. A Jehovah’s Witness, Minos Kokkinakis, won the equivalent of US $14,400 in damages from the Greek state after being arrested repeatedly for the ‘offence’ of preaching his faith from door to door. In another case, Larissis vs. Greece, a member of the Pentecostal church also won a case in the European Court of Human Rights.

2. Starks, R & W.S. Bainbridge The future of religion: secularization, revival and cult formation (1985) Berkely/Los Angeles/London: University of California press”

Other groups like Baptists too have come under attack for speaking to others about their beliefs.


6,641 posted on 01/04/2011 10:17:10 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6635 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
When Jesus pointed out his weakness - his wealth - he showed him that his perceived perfection was never going to be enough. Note also that Jesus didn't say to him that if he gave everything to the poor and followed him, he would be saved, but that "his reward would be great in heaven". There is a difference.

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that unsaved people can get to Heaven? That goes against the Scriptures which tell us that nothing imperfect can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Or are you saying that this unsaved man will have rewards in Heaven apart from his eternal Judgement to hell? Nothing from Heaven passes to hell - remember that the damned man was denied even a drop of water touched onto his tongue. What exactly are you trying to say?

6,642 posted on 01/04/2011 10:23:05 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6598 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE
In any event whenever it was practiced and wherever it was practiced it was "new". Many Catholics seem to believe the Latin Mass was practiced from the beginning.

True, we have some supposedly failed Catholics on FR who routinely show massive ignorance of the Faith as well. I'll never forget that acapella Church of Christ preacher hurl at me that if English was good enough for Jesus it was good enough for America. And he meant it, too. I don't know how far he was expecting to go, but I was helping (!!!) his mood along in a rather spirited religious debate (heh heh heh).

6,643 posted on 01/04/2011 10:35:53 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6621 | View Replies]

To: OLD REGGIE
I suspect, for one reason or another, they will never be completely opened.

Certainly possible. I've been impressed by the extent that they have opened and are opening, though.

That's my cat you ninny. She lost her teeth and I made use of a set of false teeth left behind by my grandmother.

As long as you don't mix them up with yours. :)

6,644 posted on 01/04/2011 10:46:34 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6624 | View Replies]

To: metmom
Predominantly Catholic countries have very little religious freedom. Predominantly Protestant countries do.

Interesting, mm. Thanks.

Catholic/big gov't - accountable/bow to man, his rules, take from one and give to another, affirmative action, not obeying the law of the land. Socialist/fascism/Marxism.

Protestant/conservative - in God we Trust, all men equal, Pro Constitution, Pro Word, accountable to Our Creator/HIS WORD.
6,645 posted on 01/04/2011 12:06:26 PM PST by presently no screen name
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6635 | View Replies]

To: annalex; metmom
The arguments of anti-Catholics about John 6 in general follow the pattern of the very Jews in that chapter who abandoned Jesus in the end.

And some then continue in the same vein as the persecutors of the early Church in Rome.

6,646 posted on 01/04/2011 12:26:48 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6619 | View Replies]

To: annalex
St. Peter himself was not exactly infallible in his ordinary life. The issue is not that we had bad popes, -- we certainly did, -- but the teaching the Magisterium produced, perhaps, despite these very popes.

Very good.

Let us not forget that the infallible magisterial teaching is not a day-to-day governance of the Church. Bad popes generally left no lasting legacy.

They influenced the general actions and perceptions of the Church - the (now) waning liberal influence for example which came out of the 1950s and 1960s.

6,647 posted on 01/04/2011 4:40:06 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6582 | View Replies]

To: annalex
No one says that all of the gospel is literal, but all of the gospel is inerrant as written. When a metaphore is offered, the inspired author made sure no sect in 16c could come alone and credibly pretend that they obey the scripture.

As written by whom? The original authors? The current NIV? You have made an excellent point that if one does not interpret through the eyes of the consensus patrum, then that interpretation can support, why, any heresy that can be imagined by men, and influenced by the lord of this world.

6,648 posted on 01/04/2011 4:42:30 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6584 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Is that a candy necklace?


6,649 posted on 01/04/2011 4:43:26 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6592 | View Replies]

To: MarkBsnr
What do you mean by this? Are you saying that unsaved people can get to Heaven? That goes against the Scriptures which tell us that nothing imperfect can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Or are you saying that this unsaved man will have rewards in Heaven apart from his eternal Judgement to hell? Nothing from Heaven passes to hell - remember that the damned man was denied even a drop of water touched onto his tongue. What exactly are you trying to say?

What I mean is that the rich young man was convinced of his own righteousness - like many are - and Jesus, who knew his heart, revealed to him the one area he had not even considered and that was his love of money. This love of material wealth was so strong that the very idea of, if by following Christ it meant he had to give it up, he chose instead to forsake Jesus. What I am not implying, and what I don't believe Jesus was either, is that people can be good enough to get to heaven on their own merit.

When Jesus told him to give all he had to the poor and follow him and great would be his reward in heaven, he was not saying those who do this are saved in that action of giving to the poor, but that those who follow him AND do these good works will have a great reward in heaven. Remember when he said anyone who gave up houses or lands or mother or father, etc., for Christ's sake would receive a hundred fold in this life and in the one to come.

6,650 posted on 01/04/2011 4:46:48 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6642 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 6,551-6,6006,601-6,6506,651-6,700 ... 7,351-7,356 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson