Posted on 11/09/2010 4:31:20 PM PST by Gamecock
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> “ Heck, there are many good sources for information, folks. If I can find them, I know you can find them.”
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We don’t need the errors of men; we have the perfect word of God.
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Sola scriptura as the Protestant tradition holds to it is inseparable from the doctrine of private interpretation of the Scriptures. All the reformers desired the unity of the Church but undercut, unwittingly, the very basis of unity which is the Holy Tradition. Being unwilling to submit to the authority of popes and councils, they did follow the Chalcedean tradition. But their successors have not and the result has been an erosion of faith in the truth of Scripture.
And you are more transparent with every post of your completely lost standing. But keep laughing, narses. Perhaps you can Snort your way to heaven.
Most of what Irenaeus got blamed for was concocted centuries after he died. The apostasy of Rome had not yet poked its pagan head up in Irenaeus’ time.
This particular piece is definitely not written by Irenaeus.
Bold assertion. How would you know this?
My errors are my own. Your errors are likewise your own. Don’t compound them when someone is attempting to help enlighten his fellow man, by being rude, FRiend. And you are correct, we have the perfect Word of God: the Bible, Tradition, and the Magisterium. Thank you for pointing that out.
The perfect word of God is most assuredly recorded in a book.
To deny it in bold type gives the lie no more credibility.
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Tradition, and the Magisterium are the vile errors of men, and lead only to destruction.
There is only the word to draw men to Christ. Read it to them and The Father speaks through your lips to them to draw them to his Son.
>>Being unwilling to submit to the authority of popes and councils, they did follow the Chalcedean tradition.<<
If the Popes and councils are authority and Iraneous was correct about only looking to the Scriptures for authority please find for me in Scripture the authority for believing in the ascension of Mary.
The problem in virtually every organized religion today is that they have strayed from, added to, or taken away from what is written in Scripture just as the Gnostics did.
The perfect Word of God is a person, Our Lord Jesus Christ. “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us...” The Bible gives true testimony to this, but it is not itself “the Word”
> “Bold assertion. How would you know this?”
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Because Irenaeus was not the kind of lost soul that would write such pagan drivel. He studied under Polycarp who was educated and ordained by John. It took centuries for the kind of deceit and error in that piece to develop.
The gnostics had little room for Mary, because they regarded all flesh as evil.
Irenaeus
He sure sounds like Catholic thought to me. Just saying.
You figured that out all by yourself?
“Problems with Medjugorje”
There are many.
The idea that Worship involves sacrifice is totally foreign to Protestants so to them Bible reading, sermon and prayer is worship. To us it is the Sacrifice of the Mass and reception of Holy Eucharist.
Please cite one reputable source that makes such an assinine claim.
“They gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures...” (Irenaeus)
“Since, therefore, the tradition from the apostles does thus exist in the Church, and is permanent among us, let us revert to the Scriptural proof furnished by those apostles who did also write the Gospel, in which they recorded the doctrine regarding God, pointing out that our Lord Jesus Christ is the truth, and that no lie is in Him.” (Irenaeus)
“We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.” (Irenaeus)
The phrase ‘handed down’ is the verb form of the word ‘tradition.’ What he is saying, then, is that the transmission of apostolic teaching is traditioned by means of Scripture. He writes further that the apostles committed to the Church the fullness of God’s revelation, and therefore, all things pertaining to the truth.
It is clear that Irenaeus taught that Scripture is the pillar and ground of the faith. His reference to the apostles lodging the fullness of truth in the hands of the Church is primarily a reference to Scripture. He does assert that the Church possesses the truth which anyone can ascertain by listening to her preaching, and emphasizing that to embrace the teaching of the Church is to embrace the tradition of the truth:
“Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?” (Irenaeus)
Irenaeus proposes here a hypothetical situation. The Churches have received the tradition of the truth from the apostles. What, he asks, if they had not left us any writings? Then it would be necessary to follow the teaching, the tradition, of those Churches which have had direct contact with the apostles. The operative phrase here is, ‘what if the apostles had not left us their writings.’ But in point of fact they have left us their writings. And the point he makes is that while the Church does preach and teach orally, the doctrinal content of that preaching and teaching is directly verifiable from the written Scriptures. Irenaeus is not affirming the existence of oral tradition. He is simply presenting a hypothetical situation as a way of combating the Gnostic heretics.
The Bible is the means by which the traditio (tradition), or teaching of the apostles is transmitted from generation to generation and by which true apostolic teaching can be verified and error refuted. Irenaeus actually uses a form of the word ‘tradition’ to convey this idea.
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