. . . there is no inheritance of land for Christian's. We're less than the Jew in the diaspora. We are not of this world as Jesus said He was not of this world. The only promise of land Hashem wrote in HIS WORD are the verses I gave you above. There are more of the same but Jesus never promised Christians a worldly inheritance, except to take up the cross and to follow Him. if we are to truly do that, then we must lovingly conquer, not with swords( save when in war) the hearts of man through HIS WORD via HIS SPIRIT. So, I guess if you mean anything more or less than that then I don't understand you nor the continuous inferences of John Darby.
imho, Darby is a huge pack of fantasized straw dogs. The garbage about Darby on FR from that perspective is virtually always inaccurate, false, even, seemingly often, a lie from hell.
I laughingly look at all I've written trying to be honest with you but we have strayed so far from the incredible blessing the Amish did by shunning their way of life, flying to Israel and apologizing to the main rabbbi at the Wall. may Hashem bless them for Hashem has said HE will bless those who stand by Abraham and his seed, and that's what they've done.
If only more churches, more of the body of Christ could show by the Amish incredible humbling example of love to Jews we just might have the strenght and power here on earth to conquer Islam and all the lies of this world. But alas, I fear only Hashem in His return will be able to fix this broken world. Until that time we have been given our marching orders.Mt 28:17-20
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Last part of question:"What is the legitimate continuation of the Old Testament religion? The New Testament, inclusion of that is the continuation of the Book of Acts to this day.
There will come a time very soon in which the dispensation of the church is over, and Hashem will deal once again directly through His people and the Messiah( Meleckh Mesiach) will return for Christians or come for the first time for the Jews. This is a serious question both for Jews and Christians alike and it is debated continuously. Some rabbi's believe in two in one, there is a Lamb of Hashem, and there is the conquering King of Kings, they are one and the same. Of course most Jews true to the religion call these Rabbi's nuts, not all but the majority. Again as I said to the other poster, I am NOT versed enough to debate fully on many Jewish subjects and this one creates more division than it does find common ground but it's wothwhile to read up and use this in later debates
Very excellent. I thoroughly agree. Thanks enormously.
Have often pondered this grafted in business in light of ultimate ruling and reigning with Christ.
I would not be at all surprised for some, many Christians to have land given them within the ultimate land of Israel. Whether that would be on the basis of some degree if Jewish DNA or strictly spiritual grafted in assignments, I couldn't guess. I just expect it.
However, I agree that the only PROMISE SPECIFICALLY ARTICULATED ABOUT THE LAND--IS ONLY TO JEWS.
Folks seem to gloss over God's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that their children shall number as the sands of the sea. The assumption seems to be that THAT 'MERELY' means a lot of kids.
WRONG! That's a low view of God's WORD.
God's WORD--powerful enough to create all that is--is not weak about literal fulfillment to the nth degree.
My image is that ALL CREATION from the subatomic level on up would 'strain'--if it took that--TO FULFILL EVERY PARTICLE OF GOD'S WORD. It would not matter, imho, TO CREATION, per se, whether God 'intended' it as a parable, or not. GOD SAID IT. That would be enough.
Anyway--Jacob's kids--numbering as the sands of the sea. Where ya gonna house em in even the New Jerusalem? Where they gonna work? How many acres would the freeways consume? We gonna have condensed mansions to fit them all in? Nonsense.
ALL CREATION GROANS EAGERLY, EXPECTANTLY, YEARNINGLY, DESPERATELY SEEKING the manifestation of THE SONS OF GOD. imho, That's us. Jewish AND Christian believers at that future time.
RULING AND REIGNING WITH CHRIST.
Over what? This boot camp of a planet?
There's not enough room.
Number as the sands of the sea. THAT'S JUST THE CHIEFS. Doesn't begin to calculate the Indians.
imho, the 'Indians' must number in the incalculable QUADZILLIONS TIMES QUADZILLIONS. . . . OUT THERE . . . somewhere . . . all over . . .
The idea that RULING AND REIGNING WITH CHIRST over this tired old--even renewed old boot camp of a planet IS ALL THERE IS to be . . . is an insult to Christ and to God's Creation.
That kind of God is TOO small.
GOD IS INHERENTLY MORE EXPANSIVE THAN THAT. INHERENTLY.
I don't understand what distinctions will likely remain between us grafted in vs the blood children of Jacob. If the Old Testament pattern of adoption is any clue, there mostly won't be any distinction. We will be accounted as full fledged blood brothers.
Yet, it appears that there's 12 thrones for the Patriarchs and 12 thrones for the Disciples. That IMPLIES some distinction remaining. Perhaps it's more of a ceremonial distinction kind of signifying a spiritual heritage--kind of like the war medals of Admirals.
Paul makes it very very clear--for those with eyes to see and ears to hear--that Gentiles are GRAFTED INl--Johnny come latelys to the party. And, Paul and John make it abundantly clear that at a given point in still future time, before time is lain aside as irrelevant--that the TIMES OF THE GENTILES WILL BE . . . drum roll . . .
Deal with it, Gentiles. That's SCRIPTURE.
From then on, the primary ruling perspective will be from the top--THE JEWISH MESSIAH ON DOWN. Thankfully, we can then also see HIM as our Jewish Father, Lord God, Messiah--as the GRAFTED IN ISRAELITES.
If there's any distinction for us--it would be as Jews-lite not them as Gentiles/Christians-lite.
Thank you for sharing your testimony, dear brother in Christ!
There is so much scripture that shows the promises to Israel are still bound by G!D today. e has never swayed nor broken a promise yet, has never abandoned Jews ever, it's mans horrid belief systems I think from satan himself that have made many Jews the alleged scourge of the world yet I don't ask but beg my Christian friends to embrace at least in part the Jewish traditions and the feasts as they show so much; heavens, if we're "grafted in" than why have Christians killed Jews throughout history? It's because of arrogance, pride and folks just DON'T READ the scripture as the literal word of HASHEM!
Some do, a lot do but as you said, basically it's a mess. I steer clear of pre,post tribulation, steer clear of heaven and hell tpics, steer clear of what or how Messiah will rule this earth after the whole world battles against HIM. We see huge brush fires of this today and it will only get worse. So yes there will come a time when the days of the Goyiim, the Gentiles from the time of Babylon to this day, and Israel will take it's place once again and rightfully so. Jews have given and well preserved Hashem's word, but I'm repeating myself. This age shows for a fact all that has been written in HIS WORD is true and is coming true; by that i mean all prophecies as laid out in scripture have either been fulfilled or are on the verge of being fulfilled.>/P>
Again I don't delve into the "four and twenty elders" nor try to discern who sits upon those thrones, don't know if Hashem meant Jews will be as uncountable as the sands of the sea and if that's literal or a figure of speech that the seed of Abraham Isaac and Jacob will never cease from this world and in some future time will be ...eh, I'm speculating. This is what is so cool about TORAH studies, all around our table have ideas and look fro the Hebrew roots but we hit tangents and such and need to keep our eye upon our blessed King, not the fractured beliefs( including Darby) in which people take as Gospel truth only to run into say crusades, Hitleresque madness, cults, offshoots of scripture as evil as the day called the Qur'an and the strange pastors from "name it and claim it"filthy rich scumbags that rob lil old ladies of their SSI checks to the Obama church of racism, to Jimmy Jones like cults or those crazy replacement theologists, emergent church crazies that lead so many to death.
I made an error or three in my writing. One I wrote only two Gentiles wrote in the Bible but the book of Ruth is also written by a Gentile. There is a law, a rule right in the Torah and we see it all the way through the Bible as to how Gentiles and orphans are grafted into Judaism from Rahab in the fall of Jerico, to Ruth and Naomi, and others not named but of course there were bond servants that became Jews and Gentiles throughout history to this day have made their conversions to Judaism.
As for the grafting in, as a spiritual graft, yes, but again Christians are set apart from Israel. maybe there will be a place for Christians in Israel, for now most Jews want no part of Christianity as the scars of the past are too visual, too close and too hurtful to bear seeing many Christians in Eretz Israel. If I were more fully skilled in Hebrew, if I could afford to live in Israel I know I'd fight for them( a BIT old now), I would love and live amongst my daughter, and others of whom my own family was too cared to tell anyone of their Jewish roots for fear of death and persecution but I've visited and there may be a spiritual "graft' however there is a division, a barrier of the heart that must still soften on both sides and not many Christians nor Jews want to change tradition nor refute the poisonous readings from alleged masters of scripture that only , what's the word, only divide and destroy further that what should be a loving bond between Christian and Jew.
This may happen. It happens on small scales, but not as it should be. There is more prophecy ahead; maybe then, but G!D has HIS own plan, HIS own timing (dispensation)in which now we only see in part, as through a glass darkly, but soon, maybe in death or sometime in the future when evil again rears it's nasty head and envelopes the whole world in false peace, false treaties...eh, you can read those prophecies for yourself; I just don't want to draw pictures nor make dates as others have. Again, thanks for the back up. Your post was an enjoyable read.
Some do, a lot do but as you said, basically it's a mess. I steer clear of pre,post tribulation, steer clear of heaven and hell tpics, steer clear of what or how Messiah will rule this earth after the whole world battles against HIM. We see huge brush fires of this today and it will only get worse. So yes there will come a time when the days of the Goyiim, the Gentiles from the time of Babylon to this day, and Israel will take it's place once again and rightfully so. Jews have given and well preserved Hashem's word, but I'm repeating myself. This age shows for a fact all that has been written in HIS WORD is true and is coming true; by that i mean all prophecies as laid out in scripture have either been fulfilled or are on the verge of being fulfilled.>/P>
Again I don't delve into the "four and twenty elders" nor try to discern who sits upon those thrones, don't know if Hashem meant Jews will be as uncountable as the sands of the sea and if that's literal or a figure of speech that the seed of Abraham Isaac and Jacob will never cease from this world and in some future time will be ...eh, I'm speculating. This is what is so cool about TORAH studies, all around our table have ideas and look fro the Hebrew roots but we hit tangents and such and need to keep our eye upon our blessed King, not the fractured beliefs( including Darby) in which people take as Gospel truth only to run into say crusades, Hitleresque madness, cults, offshoots of scripture as evil as the day called the Qur'an and the strange pastors from "name it and claim it"filthy rich scumbags that rob lil old ladies of their SSI checks to the Obama church of racism, to Jimmy Jones like cults or those crazy replacement theologists, emergent church crazies that lead so many to death.
I made an error or three in my writing. One I wrote only two Gentiles wrote in the Bible but the book of Ruth is also written by a Gentile. There is a law, a rule right in the Torah and we see it all the way through the Bible as to how Gentiles and orphans are grafted into Judaism from Rahab in the fall of Jerico, to Ruth and Naomi, and others not named but of course there were bond servants that became Jews and Gentiles throughout history to this day have made their conversions to Judaism.
As for the grafting in, as a spiritual graft, yes, but again Christians are set apart from Israel. maybe there will be a place for Christians in Israel, for now most Jews want no part of Christianity as the scars of the past are too visual, too close and too hurtful to bear seeing many Christians in Eretz Israel. If I were more fully skilled in Hebrew, if I could afford to live in Israel I know I'd fight for them( a BIT old now), I would love and live amongst my daughter, and others of whom my own family was too cared to tell anyone of their Jewish roots for fear of death and persecution but I've visited and there may be a spiritual "graft' however there is a division, a barrier of the heart that must still soften on both sides and not many Christians nor Jews want to change tradition nor refute the poisonous readings from alleged masters of scripture that only , what's the word, only divide and destroy further that what should be a loving bond between Christian and Jew.
This may happen. It happens on small scales, but not as it should be. There is more prophecy ahead; maybe then, but G!D has HIS own plan, HIS own timing (dispensation)in which now we only see in part, as through a glass darkly, but soon, maybe in death or sometime in the future when evil again rears it's nasty head and envelopes the whole world in false peace, false treaties...eh, you can read those prophecies for yourself; I just don't want to draw pictures nor make dates as others have. Again, thanks for the back up. Your post was an enjoyable read.