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Marco Rubio, Dinesh DíSouza and the end of the Reformation?
Commonweal ^ | 11/30/2010 | David Gibson

Posted on 12/08/2010 9:30:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Florida’s Republican Senator-elect and Tea Party heartthrob Marco Rubio is the youngest member of the senate, the GOP’s only Latino senator (he is Cuban-American), and a straight-talking Catholic who brings the same sense of conviction to his faith as he does to his politics. A flattering profile of him at Catholic Advocate last February was called, “Marco Rubio, A Catholic Candidate Who Will Not Compromise.”

But now it turns out (I have a piece on it all at PoliticsDaily) that Rubio has been attending a Southern Baptist-affiliated megachurch near Miami for much of the past decade, a revelation that has surprised many folks and dismayed a few supporters. After many requests, a Rubio spokesman said that the senator-elect “regularly attends Catholic Mass, and he was baptized, confirmed and married in the Roman Catholic Church. On the final Sunday of the campaign, for example, he attended Mass at Christ the King Catholic Church in Tampa. . . . He also attends services at a Christian church with his wife and children.”

The “Christian church” is apparently Christ Fellowship. Asked why Rubio attended a non-Catholic church regularly, Burgos said: “He attends both regularly.” His donations, some $66,000 since 2000, go to Christ Fellowship, however.

Dinesh D’Souza, another Catholic paladin on the right, also surprised and unsettled more than a few of his allies last August when he was appointed to lead The King’s College, a small evangelical college located in the Empire State Building. How’s that? D’Souza D’Souza told Christianity Today at the time that he himself is “non-denominational” and has been attending an evangelical megachurch in San Diego for several years.

He added:

“My apologetic is very nondenominational; it’s very much inspired by the C. S. Lewis idea of mere Christianity. I’m quite happy to acknowledge my Catholic background; at the same time, I’m very comfortable with Reformation theology.”

“Being a Protestant is a term defined in opposition to Catholicism and refers to a set of historical battles over denominational issues. As far as I can tell, those denominational issues are not the center of what’s being argued today.”

Earlier this month, Marvin Olasky, the provost at The King’s College, resigned, and it’s not clear there will be any further fallout for D’Souza. And Rubio, whose positions on gay marriage and abortion are in line with his conservative faith-based supporters, will likely be protected behind the “ecumenism of the barricades.”

But if Rubio were a Democrat, I don’t see thing playing out so irenically. And what of his religious double-dipping? Or D’Souza’s take on post-Reformation theology? It all seems rather wobbly men of such strong convictions.



TOPICS: Current Events; Ecumenism; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; dineshdsouza; marcorubio; reformation

1 posted on 12/08/2010 9:30:07 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The Miami Church as referenced in the article seems to believe the Bible verbatim: http://www.cfmiami.org/new.php

What more can we hope for?


2 posted on 12/08/2010 9:44:54 AM PST by Joann37
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To: SeekAndFind
But if Rubio were a Democrat, I don’t see thing playing out so irenically.

I don't agree with that.

Democrats could care less if a nominally Catholic candidate also attends (or only attends) his wife's Episcopal or Methodist or what have you church.

A lot of people are in Rubio's situation, and the ambiguity is largely the fault of the bishops.

3 posted on 12/08/2010 9:45:10 AM PST by wideawake
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To: SeekAndFind
Dinesh D’Souza, another Catholic paladin on the right...added “Being a Protestant is a term defined in opposition to Catholicism....”

Sounds like a smear to me. What a rube!
History Lesson: Positively Protestant

4 posted on 12/08/2010 9:49:31 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know what this revelation says more about—their supposed intellect gone vacuous, or extraordinarily poor catechesis, or marrying non-Catholics and trading off faith for peace at home, or for political/career gain. It looks quite blase about faith and their explanation of sorts try to make blase look cool, intellectual and rather broad and worldly, in a professorial kind of way. All of which are referred to commonly taken together or separately as the broad road to hell. Terribly interesting but a little hair raising for those of us who still appreciate, on faith issues particularly, just a little rigidity here and there in this era.


5 posted on 12/08/2010 9:49:33 AM PST by RitaOK
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To: wideawake

“A lot of people are in Rubio’s situation, and the ambiguity is largely the fault of the bishops.”

You are correct, but there may be more to this than many realize. For instance, I wonder where his wife stands in all of this. We need to hold them all up in prayer regularly...regardless. The Truth will eventually dominate. ;-)


6 posted on 12/08/2010 9:56:05 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: SeekAndFind; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...

Or perhaps God is waking them up to the truth of the Gospel.


7 posted on 12/08/2010 9:56:13 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

You have to seek the Truth and it takes a lot of time. Many, like these politicians, have little extra time for that search (so they think) and will fall for sound bites that at least make some sense. Life is a journey and theirs is not over. It is a process and as long as they are exposed to the Truth, the thick cream of logic should surface to the top. Time and Truth will favor God.


8 posted on 12/08/2010 10:11:42 AM PST by savagesusie
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To: SeekAndFind

I have known of people at our church who went to mass before attending service with us.

And in my travels I have often attended catholic services where ever I was.


9 posted on 12/08/2010 10:17:49 AM PST by marron
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To: savagesusie

?


10 posted on 12/08/2010 10:21:09 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

What’s the big deal? It’s still Christian.


11 posted on 12/08/2010 10:37:41 AM PST by Mandingo Conservative (Satan was like the first "community organizer", just ask Eve, the first liberal useful idiot!)
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To: SeekAndFind
It all seems rather wobbly men of such strong convictions.

I'm a Catholic, but my beliefs don't effect whether my candidate is Catholic or Protestant or Jewish or non-denominational BUT mooselimbs are out.

Mooselimbs want to kill me and my family, can't vote for'em.

12 posted on 12/08/2010 10:44:31 AM PST by USS Alaska
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To: Joann37

You wrote:

“What more can we hope for?”

How about actually understanding it properly? Ever have a room full of Protestants and watch them argue doctrine? They all claim to believe in the Bible, but can’t seem to come to real consensus on many issues. Seems like they lack understanding.


13 posted on 12/08/2010 10:50:49 AM PST by vladimir998 (The anti-Catholic will now evade or lie. Watch.)
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To: Mandingo Conservative
"What’s the big deal? It’s still Christian."

Not sure which "It's" you are referring to, but the Reformation demonstrated from the Scriptures that much of the "Catholic" perspective was anything but Christian. Thus, the need for "reforming" the church. That is a big deal. If D'Souza and Rubio are being exposed to this fact, someday soon they will recognize the two views are not compatable. At that point something significant will occur.

14 posted on 12/08/2010 10:57:26 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: savagesusie

Nicely said.


15 posted on 12/08/2010 11:00:41 AM PST by WILLIALAL
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To: Dutchboy88
much of the "Catholic" perspective was anything but Christian. Thus, the need for "reforming" the church.

If the first part of that statement were true, there would have been no church left to "reform" -- you can't "reform" a decomposed corpse and make into a living man again.

Fortunately, the first part of that statement isn't true.

16 posted on 12/08/2010 11:26:19 AM PST by Campion
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To: SeekAndFind
Rubio and D'Souza are just two of millions of Catholics who have only the foggiest idea about what the Catholic Church believes, and none at all about how to defend those beliefs from the Scriptures -- a direct consequence of the complete abdication of catechesis after Vatican II in the US.

The situation started improving in the mid 1980's, but by then an entire generation had been lost.

17 posted on 12/08/2010 11:30:01 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
Rubio and D'Souza are just two of millions of Catholics who have only the foggiest idea about what the Catholic Church believes, and none at all about how to defend those beliefs from the Scriptures

With all respect, shouldn't your beliefs coincide with Scriptures? Seems like you are saying Scripture goes against your beliefs?

But maybe I am misunderstanding your statement, if so I apologize.

18 posted on 12/08/2010 12:20:04 PM PST by Vegasrugrat
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To: Campion
"If the first part of that statement were true, there would have been no church left to "reform" -- you can't "reform" a decomposed corpse and make into a living man again.

Fortunately, the first part of that statement isn't true."

If the last part of your statement was true, then the Reformation would not have been necessary. Fortunately, it is not. The Reformers identified several errors of Rome and brought truth to light, again.

The "reforming" hearkens all the way back to the early church wherein Christ alone was the Gospel. Rome's sacerdotalism, absolution of sin by men, Mariolatry, indulgences, and really its entire basis of salvation were all exposed as the frauds they are. Hopefully, D' Souza & Rubio are granted an opportunity to recognize that and turn from Rome. As I said, perhaps it is beginning.

19 posted on 12/08/2010 12:28:13 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
You miss my point entirely. If the church's "entire basis of salvation" was a "fraud", there was nothing left to "reform". You don't "reform" a fraud into truth; you throw it away and start over. That would involve admitting that Christ failed and the Holy Spirit had taken a 1500 year long vacation while the Church collapsed into heresy.

At least the Mormons are consistent in admitting that that's what they believe.

20 posted on 12/08/2010 2:07:51 PM PST by Campion
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To: Vegasrugrat

I said nothing whatsoever about Scripture going against my beliefs. I said that Catholics who came of age between 1965 and 1985 were not taught how to defend or explain their doctrine using the Scriptures.


21 posted on 12/08/2010 2:10:28 PM PST by Campion
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To: vladimir998
I have been in a room full of protestants many times and never heard any arguments concerning doctrine or the Bible. I have heard many speak on how God has changed their lives and how His love is so awesome.

I have been is a room full of Roman Catholics or a mixed group and found the same.

22 posted on 12/08/2010 3:14:54 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: SeekAndFind

So what! I have no use for any religion; if anyone else does have at it, I care not. With that said...Believe how that Christ died for your sins, was buried, and raised from the dead for our Justification. Believing this you are saved.


23 posted on 12/08/2010 3:48:50 PM PST by PoloSec ( Christ died for our sins...)
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To: Campion; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...
"You miss my point entirely. If the church's "entire basis of salvation" was a "fraud", there was nothing left to "reform". You don't "reform" a fraud into truth; you throw it away and start over."

And you missed reading my answer, perhaps entirely. The entire basis of the Roman Churh's basis of salvation was a fraud. There WAS nothing left to reform. What was "reformed" was the early and true church of antiquity, the apostolic church described with utter clarity in the Scriptures. When read by elect individuals the truth of salvation in Christ, alone, lept off the pages and ignited a fire not even Rome could extinguish (although they have tried). The Fire, who's origins reached back to the first centuries, once again caused the world to seek not Rome, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified, raised, and ascended to heaven. The truth is now even enticing Rubio and D'Souza.

But, there have always been chosen, real believers rejecting the Roman cult and embracing the truth, little flickers of light in every corner of the dark Roman world. But at the Reformation the return to the truth became a conflagration. Repent, Rome, if you can.

24 posted on 12/08/2010 4:18:13 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88; SeekAndFind; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; ...
Or perhaps God is waking them up to the truth of the Gospel.

Amen, Brother.

It's pretty obvious that the RC's get upset when someone attends some other church because the preach a different gospel.

25 posted on 12/08/2010 4:33:05 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; Dutchboy88; CHAMPION; SeekAndFind; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; ...
I was thinking the same thing wmfights. Catholics would like to draw Protestants to their Church. They're shocked to even suggest that a Catholic should attend a Protestant church or do ANYTHING or read ANYTHING Protestant. True Catholics KNOW that there is a difference, yet they hide under a cloak of "Christianity".

It's really rather disingenuous.

26 posted on 12/08/2010 5:07:41 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: Dutchboy88
Just wanted to take the time to thank you for “pinging” me on these discussions. Even though I don't input a lot, I read it all and enjoy the back and forth ideas and opinions. I don't say much because others here are so much better saying what I am thinking better than I could elaborate in words.
27 posted on 12/08/2010 7:01:42 PM PST by fish hawk (HE)
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To: HarleyD; Dutchboy88; CHAMPION; SeekAndFind; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7
Catholics would like to draw Protestants to their Church. They're shocked to even suggest that a Catholic should attend a Protestant church or do ANYTHING or read ANYTHING Protestant.

It's probably part of the reason they don't understand why Born Again Christians rejoice when a person believes The Gospel and is saved even if in the process they left a Baptist Church and joined a Methodist Church. We share a common faith in our Savior.

It's really rather disingenuous.

I agree. You can't build a fence and claim to be on both sides of it. Being wrong doesn't make them bad, just wrong.

28 posted on 12/08/2010 7:27:44 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: SeekAndFind; fish hawk; wmfights; HarleyD; Dutchboy88; CHAMPION; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; TSgt; ...

Two things...

1) This is a very misleading headline, and

2) I’m stunned and very pleased that Marco Rubio and Dinesh D’Souza are practicing Protestants. I can understand they’re both politicians who don’t want to lose the Roman Catholic vote, but the fact is they worship and financially support Protestant churches.

That’s real progress.


29 posted on 12/09/2010 1:16:19 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"I can understand they’re both politicians"

Dinesh D'Souza is a politician? I thought he was an author and Christian apologist.

30 posted on 12/09/2010 3:53:31 AM PST by circlecity
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To: wmfights

You are so right..


31 posted on 12/09/2010 5:08:54 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: elpadre

You wrote:

“I have been in a room full of protestants many times and never heard any arguments concerning doctrine or the Bible.”

I have. Bring up infant baptism to a Baptist and Episcopalian at the same time. Throw in a Presbyterian for good measure.

“I have heard many speak on how God has changed their lives and how His love is so awesome.”

Me too. Then bring up infant baptism, the canon of scripture, the authority of the church, justification, works and grace, birth control, abortion, etc. You’ll see more than just the love of Christ. You’ll see arguing.

“I have been is a room full of Roman Catholics or a mixed group and found the same.”

True enough.


32 posted on 12/09/2010 5:24:42 AM PST by vladimir998 (The anti-Catholic will now evade or lie. Watch.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

RE: I can understand they’re both politicians who don’t want to lose the Roman Catholic vote


Dinesh D’Souza is the President of the Evangelical King’s College in New York City, he isn’t running for office as far as I can tell.


33 posted on 12/09/2010 7:18:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: fish hawk

As always, my brother, you are most welcome.


34 posted on 12/09/2010 7:42:51 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: RnMomof7; HarleyD
Thank you.

I know a lot of Christians don't want to be involved in disputes about doctrine, but when we get to the foundation of our faith, whether you believe The Gospel as is, or believe there are "ands", "buts", or "maybes" attached it's not a discussion about the color of the stained glass. It is a discussion of what it is to be a Christian.

We see the carry over of this in the discussion about these guys. Instead of joy that they are serious in their faith and are seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ there is anger that it is not in their RCC. The Christians I know rejoice at someone wanting to be in the body of Christ.

35 posted on 12/09/2010 9:04:58 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
You're right. But he's selling his book on politics.

I think it's great these two Christians have found their way out of Rome and into the light of Christ.

36 posted on 12/09/2010 10:05:20 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RitaOK

It sounds to me like he’s attending BOTH Churches. Sadly, he’s not raising his kids Catholic, though he IS attending services as a family with them and his wife. Better than ignoring a religious upbringing entirely.


37 posted on 12/09/2010 8:47:52 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SeekAndFind
And what of his religious double-dipping?

Since when is being a follower of Christ so offensive to Christians?

38 posted on 12/11/2010 6:59:55 AM PST by alnick
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To: vladimir998

They come to real consensus on the central issue — that Jesus Christ sacrificed His life and spilled his blood for us, that we may be saved from hell.

Mere human beings — every one, including every pope who ever lived — are fallible human beings and will misinterpret SOMETHING.

What’s important is that we understand the supreme sacrifice of Christ and what it means to us believers — believers from every Christian denomination, and those who do not claim any denomination.

No one should ever allow RELIGION to separate him or her from Christ.


39 posted on 12/11/2010 7:12:27 AM PST by alnick
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To: alnick

You wrote:

“They come to real consensus on the central issue — that Jesus Christ sacrificed His life and spilled his blood for us, that we may be saved from hell.”

But they did not come to consensus on everything of even close to everything and that very lack of consistancy shows that their doctrine of sola scriptura is unworkable. Also, Catholics too believe that “Jesus Christ sacrificed His life and spilled his blood for us, that we may be saved from hell.” Does that mean that there are now no major differences between Catholics and Protestants? See how easily your argument falls to pieces?

“Mere human beings — every one, including every pope who ever lived — are fallible human beings and will misinterpret SOMETHING.”

True. But no Catholic claims popes are always right or always infallible. If you say that Obama is the current president of the USA, that is an INFALLIBLE statement. You are infallible when you say it. You are wrong about much else. I don’t think you even come close to understanding papal infallibility.

“What’s important is that we understand the supreme sacrifice of Christ and what it means to us believers — believers from every Christian denomination, and those who do not claim any denomination.”

But that’s just it. Christ founded exactly ZERO denominations. ZERO. He founded one Church and it isn’t a Protestant sect.

“No one should ever allow RELIGION to separate him or her from Christ.”

No one should allow his ignorance about religion to separate himself from a correct understanding of Christ or His Church.


40 posted on 12/11/2010 7:47:13 AM PST by vladimir998 (The anti-Catholic will now evade or lie. Watch.)
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