[Chapter six] Great Cities of the Bible: Jerusalem-Destined For Glory

The Moody Church ^ | Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer

[Joya]

WERE MARY HERSELF POSTING ON FR
I BELIEVE HER DENOUNCIATIONS OF SUCH
WOULD BE MUCH MORE FIERCE THAN MINE!

= = =
Hear, hear.

[Quix]

BTW,

with someone like John The Baptist . . . say 200% full of Grace . . . well beyond Mary as Christ indicated . . .

where & how does a mortal contain all that Grace?

Maybe it was layers thick on each of the camel’s hairs of his clothing.

Naw. That would just be his clothing.

[Quix]

THX THX.

[presently no screen name]

my Bible tells me she was “full of grace”

And your bible, ALSO, says.....

As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."

"But He said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the Word of God, and obey it."

Jesus replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and obey it".

WHY don't you declare they are in your bible, also?
Why does the CC deliberately disobey those Scriptures?
What part of disobedience do you like about your church as they make a huge man made doctrine which is totally against The Word of God?

As with all their man made doctrine - they take Scripture, i.e., 'full of grace' and wrap their heresy teachings in it.

[metmom]

What blasphemy!!!!

[CynicalBear]

>> What blasphemy!!!!<<

Looks like it to me too. That is from Dignity and Duties of the Priest that was written by St. Alphonsus De Liguori [1696-1787] who was canonized a Saint in 1839 and proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by Pope Pius IX on July 7th, 1871.

[metmom]

Jesus did not establish a priesthood. His once for all sacrifice eliminated the need for it.

Hebrews 9:24-28 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Hebrews 10:10-14 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

[metmom]

no, the intitial forgiveness of sins is obtained thru Baptism,

Wrong again, bucko.

The initial forgiveness is through repentance and confession.

1 John 1:9

[metmom]

Donatists believed that in Baptism actual grace is received, it is not a useless act. They misunderstood the grace received from the sacrament comes from God and is not dependent on the faithfulness of the priest. They also believed in the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Real Presence in the Eucharist! In short, they were Catholic, except for this priest issue. St Augustine dealt with this heresy very well.

Interesting. The *heresy* then appears to be that someone thinks that the priest's personal faithfulness is relevant to his role as a priest?

The priest could be a sodomite or pedophile and the Donatists are the heretics for not being willing to accept this?

The Catholic church is quick to label any criticism of it as *heretical*.

How convenient.......

And no surprise. What a neat system for protecting corrupt and immoral clergy. It just can't be beat for its creativeness.

[metmom]

Donatists believed that in Baptism actual grace is received, it is not a useless act. They misunderstood the grace received from the sacrament comes from God and is not dependent on the faithfulness of the priest. They also believed in the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Real Presence in the Eucharist! In short, they were Catholic, except for this priest issue. St Augustine dealt with this heresy very well.

Obviously, personal holiness and living the Beatitudes is not a prerequisite for becoming or being a priest. That's only for the unwashed.

[metmom]

If one were to ponder the writing of an epistle to the church of Rome today, how do you suppose it would read?

Probably like this to start with......

1 Corinthians 5:1- 1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

3For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

1 Corinthians 6:12-20 12 "All things are lawful for me," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful for me," but I will not be enslaved by anything. 13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh." 17But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

And here Paul is just referring to adultery, with another adult. I can't imagine his reaction if it involved CHILDREN by the leadership in the church.

[metmom]

I am assuming the ignorance about this is due to only joining FR 1/1/2011 and a poor education.

I think that's assuming a lot and giving him more credit than is due.

I don't recognize that kind of inexperience on FR in his posting style.

[Quix]

I was initially wondering if we were dealing with a retread.

Then I realized there’s far tooooo much

uhhhh . . . lack of awareness . . .

for that category.

[metmom]

I can see why the CC doesn’t like written records of things.

It denies the plain written word of Scripture and the plain written word of historical fact.

I always crack up when some Catholic trots out the *It doesn’t mean what is says, it means what we say it says* line. That’s been used plenty of times before still, nobody is buying it.

[metmom]

I dunno. It’s profitable to play dumb. People give you the benefit of the doubt and you can get away with more that way.

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

True. True.

[daniel1212]

“It is error to believe that, if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful.” Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe, Session VIII, and Hus: Session XV; DNZ:621, 617, 588)

“Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom.” St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by sedevacantist Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”)

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat...Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. “ (1 Corinthians 5:11,13)

[blue-duncan]

“They misunderstood the grace received from the sacrament comes from God and is not dependent on the faithfulness of the priest.”

The prophets railed against an ex opera operato materialistic worship; a dead externalism in religious practice and mechanical routine in religious thought.

Isaiah 1:11-14, “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.”

Amos 5:21-24, “I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.”