The new corruption meter [how does religion affect a nation's level of corruption?]

livemint.com ^ | Jan 14 2011 | Aakar Patel

[Alex Murphy]

The map is a representation of the 2010 Corruption Perceptions Index, an annual list drawn up by Transparency International.

[snip]

The remarkable fact is the clean line dividing Protestant nations and Catholic ones. The Protestants are all on top of the list.

[snip]

Catholic nations across the world tend to be more corrupt than Protestant nations.

[snip]

Every other Catholic nation is more corrupt than its Protestant neighbour. How can we explain this difference between two streams of Christianity?

[snip]

The sociologist Max Weber (died 1920) noticed the difference in prosperity levels between Protestant states (the US, UK and Germany) and Catholic ones (Argentina, Italy, Spain) of the same race. He concluded that the difference came from something he called the Protestant ethic. Protestants carried Christ’s message of doing good work to doing work well. Applied to capitalism, this message became doing honest, hard work.

[snip]

The other stream of Christianity resembling the Catholic faith is the Orthodox Church with its mystical elements. And its nations follow the same pattern as Catholics.

[snip]

Corruption is of two types. The first is transactional, where a bending or breaking of the rule is agreed upon and paid for. This is the common form of corruption. All nations are susceptible to it, because it hinges on the morality of individuals.

The second form of corruption is that where the act of corruption unfolds not from greed but opportunity.

This is the lower form, and more venal.

Here the transaction is forced, and the payer is unwilling and often on the right side of the law. Yet he must bribe because he is vulnerable. It could be to build a house, release a consignment from customs, collect a relative’s corpse from the morgue or collect an income-tax refund.

[Alex Murphy]

Every other Catholic nation [except Luxembourg, Ireland and Austria] is more corrupt than its Protestant neighbour. How can we explain this difference between two streams of Christianity? ....[The sociologist Max Weber] concluded that the difference came from something he called the Protestant ethic. Protestants carried Christ’s message of doing good work to doing work well. Applied to capitalism, this message became doing honest, hard work.

....Corruption is of two types. The first is transactional, where a bending or breaking of the rule is agreed upon and paid for....[In the second form of corruption] the transaction is forced, and the payer is unwilling and often on the right side of the law. Yet he must bribe because he is vulnerable.

The color-coded map and all scores can be viewed here. Here are the specific countries (from least to most corrupt) mentioned in the article, where religious affiliations were mentioned:

• 1 (tie), Denmark (Protestant)
• 1 (tie), New Zealand (Protestant)
• 4, Finland (Protestant)
• 5, Sweden (Protestant)
• 6, Canada (majority Protestant, 40% Catholic)
• 7, Netherlands (Protestant)
• 8, Australia (Protestant)
• 9, Switzerland (majority Protestant, 40% Catholic)
• 10, Norway (Protestant)
• 12, Luxembourg (Catholic)
• 14, Ireland (Catholic)
• 15 (tie), Austria (Catholic)
• 15 (tie), Germany (Protestant)
• 17 (tie), Barbados (Protestant)
• 20, Britain (Protestant)
• 21, Chile (Catholic)
• 22 (tie), United States (Protestant)
• 25, France (Catholic)
• 30 (tie), Spain (Catholic)
• 32, Portugal (Catholic)
• 41 (tie), Poland (Catholic)
• 50 (tie), Hungary (Catholic)
• 59 (tie), Slovakia (Catholic)
• 62 (tie), Croatia (Orthodox)
• 62 (tie), Macedonia (Orthodox)
• 67, Italy (Catholic)
• 69 (tie), Brazil (Catholic)
• 69 (tie), Romania (Orthodox)
• 73 (tie), Panama (Catholic)
• 73 (tie), Bulgaria (Orthodox)
• 78 (tie), Serbia (Orthodox)
• 78 (tie), Colombia (Catholic)
• 78,(tie), Greece (Orthodox)
• 87 (tie), Albania (Orthodox)
• 91 (tie), Bosnia (Orthodox)
• 98, Mexico (Catholic)
• 105 (tie), Argentina (Catholic)
• 105 (tie), Moldova (Orthodox)
• 110 (tie), Bolivia (Catholic)
• 127 (tie), Ecuador (Catholic)
• 127 (tie), Belarus (Orthodox)
• 134 (tie), Ukraine (Orthodox)
• 154 (tie), Russia (Orthodox)
• 164 (tie), Venezuela (Catholic)

[notaliberal]

Maybe you and marshmallow should challenge each other to see who can post the most negative articles about the Catholic Church in 24 hours...OH nevermind! .......you’re both are

[wmfights]

Thanks for taking the time to set up the link to the map and the list. I wonder if the distinction is as much a result of the organizational structure as it is what's taught by the different churches. The RCC is a hierarchy with a papal monarch. Protestant churches are either congregational in structure, or semi autonomous.

[Uncle Miltie]

I know! Let’s start a Religious War on Free Republic where there wasn’t one before!

Line up, Orange and Green! Bombs away!

< / religious taunting >

[bronx2]

Your characterization of these nations, especially the European ones, as Catholic/protestant/Orthodox is a joke. They are agnostic or atheistic with small remnants of religious belief. Similar for South and Latin America.

The measure of your objectivity was taken and found wanting.

[Domalais]

Calling Scandinavian countries Protestant is a bit of a stretch don’t you think?

[Natural Law]

"Calling Scandinavian countries Protestant is a bit of a stretch don’t you think?"

Since when has "stretching" the truth ever been a problem on FR when it serves to smear the Church?

[Campion]

New Zealand, weekly church attendance 15%; 33% of citizens report no religious affiliation at all

Denmark, only 31% of citizens agree with the statement "I believe there is a God"; weekly church attendance under 10%

Sweden, only 23% of citizens agree with the statement "I believe there is a God"; Protestant Church of Sweden claims membership of 70% of the population, but only 2% of the CoS membership attends services weekly.

Sounds like the headline should be "formerly Protestant, now functionally atheist countries least corrupt".

[Alex Murphy]

Thanks for taking the time to set up the link to the map and the list. I wonder if the distinction is as much a result of the organizational structure as it is what's taught by the different churches.

You're welcome. I created the list in post #1, but the rankings are taken from Transparency.org (there were a handful of discrepancies with the livemint article), and the religious affiliations and quotes/excerpts are from the livemint article. Only those countries mentioned in the article, wherein a religious affiliation is named, were included in my list. I have no idea what methodology was used re assigning affiliation to a country.

[BenKenobi]

Actually, more Catholics in Canada and Switzerland.

I really don’t see how your conclusion bears out. 6,9,12,14,15 are all Catholic. That’s 5/15.

•6, Canada (majority Catholic)
•7, Netherlands (Protestant)
•8, Australia (Protestant)
•9, Switzerland (majority Catholic)
•10, Norway (Protestant)
•12, Luxembourg (Catholic)
•14, Ireland (Catholic)
•15 (tie), Austria (Catholic)
•15 (tie), Germany (Protestant)
•17 (tie), Barbados (Protestant)
•20, Britain (Protestant)
•21, Chile (Catholic)
•22 (tie), United States (Protestant)

[Katya]

I believe in Germany at least....the Catholic State of Bavaria is the most prosperous.

[verdugo]

None of those countries are either Protestant nor Catholic. NONE.

I said it a million times, I doubt that of all the people who identify themselves as Catholics, that 1% really live Catholic lives. I DOUBT THAT 1% are real Catholics.

Birth control, fornication, divorce, adultery, immoral dress, never go to confession. No, there’s few Catholics left, one here one there.

When was the last time anyone saw a large Catholic family?

[OpusatFR]

“Your characterization of these nations, especially the European ones...”

Actually looking at the successor states to the USSR cited, I’d say that someone on this thread needs to read more on the subject before thinking that religion is a determining factor.

I recommend Successor States to the USSR, John W. Blaney

[wmfights]

I don't know why, but I couldn’t get the map the article was referring to until I saw the link in your post.

[Alex Murphy]

I don't know why, but I couldn’t get the map the article was referring to until I saw the link in your post.

I couldn't either, which is why I tracked down the original and linked to it in post #1.

[Alex Murphy]

None of those countries are either Protestant nor Catholic. NONE. I said it a million times, I doubt that of all the people who identify themselves as Catholics, that 1% really live Catholic lives. I DOUBT THAT 1% are real Catholics. Birth control, fornication, divorce, adultery, immoral dress, never go to confession. No, there’s few Catholics left, one here one there. When was the last time anyone saw a large Catholic family?

You make an excellent point, and one that I agree with. I've echoed a similar argument re Protestants for years:

The Catholic Church is failing to stem the tide of immorality here in America. The creedally orthodox Protestant churches are failing as well. IMO we can argue all day regarding whose numbers are increasing or decreasing, but none of it matters if cultural rot is still the result. We are failing to be salt and light.
-- Alex Murphy, December 22 2008

I wouldn't (and don't) "blame the Catholics" for Obama's win. If anything, I blame the Protestant and Evangelical churches for Obama's win, via the Hispanic and Black "Protestant" votes. Our congregations are (apparently) far more racially divided than 2004's vote let on. Hispanic and Black "Protestant" voters went for Obama in almost opposite ratios to White Protestants. That's not something the Protestant/Evangelical church should be proud of....

....In short, I believe that Christians in 2008 have lost ground, and are now too small a minority to sway elections in and of themselves. We have become strangers in a foreign land (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19). That's the real story coming out of these election results, in my honest opinion.
-- Alex Murphy, November 10 2008

I think there's a reason why we didn't make a difference in the overall vote, like we (supposedly) did in 2000 and 2004. Year-by-year census numbers show that the number of believing, practicing Christians in this country has been steadily declining for decades. I think we have finally shrunk to the level where we've lost any influence over the culture, morality, or politics at large. IMO that's what the 2008 vote demographics are saying.

We can't influence the ballot box, until we start changing the hearts and minds of the unbelievers among us. We'll remain a statistical oddity, "strangers in a foreign land" (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19), until we increase our numbers (and I don't mean simply filling seats in the pews). We Protestants and Evangelicals need to take the Great Commission and all Ten Commandments seriously again.
-- Alex Murphy, November 7 2008

[FormerLib]

If we rank them on things such as legalized prostitution and devaluing traditional marriage, the list would pretty much be the same, eh?

[marktwain]

It seems to me that there is a large difference between Christian and non Christian countries. Most of the countries that are considered “Orthodox” on the list are more likely atheist because of 60 plus years of Communist indoctrination. Similarly Muslim countries and pagan countries in Africa do not do well.

[TheDingoAteMyBaby]

>>They are agnostic or atheistic with small remnants of religious belief.

I was thinking the same thing. I would be interested in comparing corruption rates among nations in relation to frequency of church attendance or tithing.