Posted on 02/03/2011 11:38:35 PM PST by RJR_fan
Molotov Mitchell hits another one out of the ballpark!
Click HERE.
“Do you want to see a literal falling away (aka “The Great Apostasy”)?
Wait for the terrible day when the nation of Israel is destroyed by the Muslims - may be next year, may be a generation from now; Dispensationalism will finally be completely discredited and then the Gospel can go forth without the carnival acts.”
I hope your faith (& those who would agree with you) is sufficient to sustain you when you are proven utterly wrong in this assertion.
BTW, the “Great Apostasy” is already beginning in many churches today, and it won’t be those who are believing that what God has promised in His Word, He will do, that will be falling for it.
Posted on 02/05/2011 5:22:32 PM PST by carcraft (Pray for our Country)
Dispensationalism will finally be completely discredited and then the Gospel can go forth without the carnival acts.
Or, and this is the scenario that bothers me, Israel wins some major conflict at great and disproportionate cost in lives. Every prophecy pundit with a TeeVee show or YouTube channel is cheering them on loudly in the face of the biggest disaster in history. The public face of the church is perceived by the world as a bunch of bloodthirsty loons well worthy of suppression.
And you do know that verse comes in response to Christ directly addressing the destruction of Jerusalem, don't you?
I have heard one dispensational teacher, the ever amusing Chuck Missler , say that Jesus gave two Olivet discourses. One on the fall of Jerusalem, one on the end times.
BTW, the “Great Apostasy” is already beginning in many churches today, and it won’t be those who are believing that what God has promised in His Word, He will do, that will be falling for it.
Maybe, maybe not. The Church has been in as bad a shape before.
The same reason he used people like Moses, David, and Peter. It glorifies him to use weak,broken, and soiled, vessels more than if he does it with signs and wonders.
I've heard and read some folks saying Missler is losing it in his old age because he's backing off of Rome and the Catholic Church as the Anti-Christ and his empire, but I haven't heard him getting in any arguments with his pal Dave Hunt. Hunt is totally nuts in his anti-Catholic rants to the point that he can't even keep centuries straight when he blames them for things nor can bother to read the facts about some groups he claims were actually the same as the Protestant Church centuries before Luther when those groups were actually Gnostics or some other sort of heretics. Misslers facts are usually right whether his conclusions are or not. Hunt, though, never lets the facts interfere with a good conspiracy theory but he makes a good living at it as do several collectors of expensive automobiles.
Alas, ever since Luther called the Pope the AntiChrist the majority of Protestants haven't bothered to think about what the Word actually says rather than ways to make it apply to Rome and the Catholic Church. People who really want to study the makeup of the end times system need to read, "God's War on Terror" by Shoebat & Richardson, at least to recognize how well the same things they're used being interpreted one way apply as well or better when interpreted another way. They nail a lot of connections that other folks seem to be swapping around all the time depending on the news this week.
While I’d take issue in detail with your characterization of the Catholic Church, I understand the point and concede that it is not now, never has been, and never will be, perfect. Although you have no idea how difficult it is to say this, the Catholic Church is the only one Christ left us and we have to decide whether we are going to be a part of it or not.
There, and I about choked on that because it took me thirty plus years of my life realizing it and there’s a lot of baggage left from that thirty years.
Oops- To late, the founding of Israel, the Seven day war n to mention a few just a few conflicts where Israel was vastly out numbered and won.
The specific scenario I worry about is one I've heard batted about in dispensational circles: Israel goes to war w/ Iran over the nuke thing. Israel loses a few hundred thousand, Iran millions of people.
And I think to myself, "what then?". The modern secular state of Israel can do no wrong, for your usual prophecy buff, unless it's to compromise. What would these guys be doing in the face of a disaster like this, justified or not?
I keep thinking that the end times predictions etc sounds to me like Isreal will go use nukes. Talks about eyes and flesh melting off of bones etc.
The Peter's Pastoral Power Pyramid. A pyramid being involved with Peter would really add a whole new dimension to the conspiracy theories. Wow, Coptic Peter.
Nah, the North African theologians had an awful lot of input into the early Church but Coptic Christianity is enough different that I don't think so.
As for the Church and pedophilia, it's bad, but not half as bad as what happens in public schools in this country so the degree to which everyone stays angry over it has a lot more to do with preconceptions and rampant anti-Catholicism than holding the Church to a higher standard. Particularly when the amount of money involved has generated as many if nor more accusations than the actual events have.
Besides, I well remember when the Vatican was being called horrible names for not wanting Americans to admit homosexuals to seminaries back in the early sixties and don't understand why Rome is the target when it is the US Bishops and Cardinals who refused to go along with Rome in the first place. Well, I do understand, it's just like attacking Palin and guns when a maniac kills people in Arizona. The target is selected in advance.
You can look at things any way you like. I just told you what I figured out after a few decades of wrestling with it which followed three plus decades of being solidly Lutheran. If you're comfortable with where you are and think there's no degree of risk involved, fine. Personally, shooting craps with my soul in the ante wasn't appealing.
The History channel had a good thing about the Inquisition, it's about 94% bunk and that's from a guy who started out to show the horrors of it. I realize Hunt and a other like to claim more people were slain than were actually residing in Spain and Italy combined at the time, so think what you like.
Power grabbing Bishops and such, well, I leave that to you and who ever else thinks that there those wealthy speakers and authors alive today spreading the Rapture stuff and beating the Catholic Church are pure as wind driven snow. I hope they all are. The fact is, the vast majority of those called "greedy and power grabbing" only look that way when compared what the Church expected of them and look pretty modest compared to a good number of popular speakers, pastors, and authors, who are drumming their wares these days and selling the sizzle of the Rapture. Even if that were not true, please provide a list of the perfect people in the Bible other than Christ himself. It doesn't work that way, you know it, said as much yourself earlier, and yet point to what is common to all mankind as if it's unique to the Church. Interesting.
No, I'm tired of the Rapture stuff but I can assure you, you can easily find a better interpretation of Isaiah 43 than the one held by the Rapture folks. Easily. If you want to, you will, see how that works? You know very clearly what I think related to that matter and that's enough said by me.
Regards
Something didn't take even if grammar did. The Catholic Church teaches that Christ is where our faith is supposed to be, not in any institution of man and I'm pretty sure you know that. You also know they teach we are saved by Grace alone and you know that they don't teach that Grace comes from the Church or through the Church but from the Father through the Son.
So, it's interesting you say it even though you know that the implication that Catholics don't put their faith and trust in Christ isn't true. I'm surprised at you.
have a nice day
Following the strife between Boniface VIII and Philip IV of France, and the death after only eight months of his successor, a deadlocked conclave finally elected Clement V, a Frenchman, as pope in 1305. Clement declined to move to Rome, remaining in France, and in 1309 moved his court to the papal enclave at Avignon, where it remained for the next 68 years. This absence from Rome is sometimes referred to as the “Babylonian Captivity of the Papacy”.[1][2] A total of seven popes reigned at Avignon; all were French, and all were increasingly under the influence of the French crown. Finally in 1377 Gregory XI moved his court to Rome, officially ending the Avignon papacy.However, in 1378 the breakdown in relations between Urban VI and the cardinals gave rise to the Western Schism, and a second line of Avignon popes, though these are not now regarded as legitimate. This is from Wikipedia (not the best source but pretty close to what I learned in College history at a Catholic College). When Gregory and Urban were contesting for the official title Pope they routinely excommunicate each others followers leaving the Peasants with little hope in salvation, the only thing that the peasants really possessed was a hope in Salvation. Another good WWJD moment in history?
“If you’re comfortable with where you are and think there’s no degree of risk involved, fine. Personally, shooting craps with my soul in the ante wasn’t appealing”.
If your faith isn’t in the fact that you believe the Catholic Church is the institution Christ established then why not just put your faith in Christ? As I said, I don’t think the Catholic Church has any special claims to holiness etc..it is an institution like many others. I don’t know why you are so hung up on it..
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