Posted on 03/25/2011 9:19:12 AM PDT by Colofornian
Written by a local ex-Mormon Christian friend of mine: —
This is the Christ of Mormonism:
1. He lives as a humanoid god on a star near Kolob along with his father god, bound by the physical world; he does not transcend the material.
2. He is the brother of satan.
3. He had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth.
4. He offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.
5. He is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth
6. He is not the greatest being possible.
7. He is finite.
8. His blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.
9. He aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.
10. He must submit to a moral law that existed before he did.
11. You can one day become just like him.
This is the Christ of the Bible:
1. He is a spirit being that transcends space and time.
2. He is the brother of no creature; He is God, from everlasting to everlasting. No one can claim kinship with Him except those He purchased for Himself on the cross. And He is not the same type of creature they are. He is not a creature, He is God.
3. Jesus is the Author of Salvation; to say that He needed to earn His salvation is absurdity.
4. He offers His sovereign grace to whomever He sovereignly chooses; we are all tainted by sin and vile in His holy eyes. Therefore, no one is more worthy than any other human being. Thus, His grace that He offers is given unconditionally. His grace is true grace, a beautiful gift.
5. He is from everlasting to everlasting. He was never created, and Has been in relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit forever.
6. He is the greatest being possible, the Most High God. There is no one like Him and there is no one who will ever be anything like Him.
7. He is infinite, both in essence and in His divine perfections.
8. His blood is powerful enough to wipe away any sin, regardless of heinousness and duration. The only sin that cannot be forgive is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; and this is not because the blood of Christ is not powerful enough to wash it away, but because God has so sovereignly decreed that all persons who blaspheme the Holy Ghost should not receive forgiveness.
9. He created everything that exists out of nothing by the mere word of His mouth.
10. There is no external law that He submits to; He is the Author and the Source of the Law.
11. No one can ever come near to obtaining the glory and excellency of Christ.
I have in front of me a 1938 book copyrighted by Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith in which this Smith captured quotes from the original Joseph Smith & titled it Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:
...the word create...does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize...Hence we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos--chaotic matter, which is element...The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be oganized and re-organized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning, and can have no end. (Joseph Smith, pp. 350-352)
Of course, what does God's Word say? 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)
When/where do mormons say that?
By the Priestly Order of Melchizedek, I have a testimony that Heavenly Father told me this morning that everything Joseph Smith said was true and correct. And I know this to be true. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
You don't have to go beyond the Book of Mormon for this one:
Moroni 10:32: 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and IF ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
2 Nephi 25:23: ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU can DO
Helaman 12:24: ...they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their works.
Your post #28: "Interestingly, it’s both Mormons and Catholics that take the most abuse of FR...but it’s not surprising considering that the conservative base is composed of a large number of Evangelicals who hold both those groups in equal “regard”...magritte" suggests that the base of FR is composed of a "large number of Evangelicals" and they are "abusing" the poor mormons and catholics.
Since the Religion Forum is only one area of FR and there are hundreds of thousands of posts on other forums, I question your implication and invite you to provide some kind of source for it. There are many FReepers who do not fit the description of "evangelical". Attempts to broadly smear Evangelicals by accusing them of "abuse" with no proof of such reeks of liberal tactics.
I don’t need nor do I seek your assessment of how “nice a Christian” I am.
Read my post again, IF you’re interested in my side.
I asked you a direct question, WHERE did I deny anyone their rights? Am I not allowed to rebut or refute a doctrine that claims I worship in a WHORE of a church? Am I not permitted to respond in your world?
I never said anything about stopping anybody. I said that I will NOT be cowed into silence by bigots posing as self-righteous defenders of the aggressors.
Get some spectacles, it’s embarrassing.
#6: The Mormon jesus is not the greatest being possible.
First, I went to lds.org, just like Scory implied -- and like other Mormons have said I should do. I found this reference to a "Heavenly Mother" who gave spirit-image birth to Jesus and the rest of us:
A Building upon the foundation laid by Joseph Smith, subsequent prophets taught that God was not single, but married; that there is a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother; and that we were made in their image: male and female children. (See James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–75, 4:203, 205.) The Lord as a Role Model for Men and Women (Aug. 1980)
Then, b, I pulled out The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 1938 book I have:
Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
Ah, infinite regression involving numerous gods.
And then, c -- to reinforce that these gods are not the greatest beings possible: “The doctrine of a plurality of Gods is prominent in the Bible. The heads of the Gods appointed our God for us…you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods have done before you…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 370-372, 346)
Otherwise, if Mormons think this is false, then they'd believe that they, too could catch up & perhaps even pass Jesus as the "greatest being" possible.
Hence, the Mormon god wasn't always god. He was "appointed" by a council of "heads of the gods" of Mormonism.
Obviously the Mormon gods who got a "jumpstart" on godhood before the Kolob Mormon gods have been gods longer. But even they are not revealed to be the ultimate God -- the Original God.
Mormonism has no such god. How sad that they worship such low-level gods.
So I guess it is Mormon SOP...
Is there a single person here blocking a Mormon from entering their place of Worship?
Anyone suggesting a law to ban Mormonism?
What about the right of us “knuckleheads” under the 1st amendment?
Rights for thee but not for me?
Um...
No.
Hum...
So the information is true, just hurtful?
Hum...
So the information is true, just hurtful?
You know, I've seen quite a bit discussion between sports fans arguing w/each other about their beloved teams. No matter how harsh they've been, even most of what I've seen doesn't approach a real-life usage of the word "abuse".
Obviously, if you can't use the word properly, perhaps because in your sheltered life you haven't had access to real abuse victims, any disagreement stated becomes tantamount to you as "abuse."
Tell you what. Go to the nearest abortion clinic...maybe in the Bay Area. Ask to see an aborted baby. Now that's "abuse."
Indeed it is. (They have their 'gon def models who do it daily)
"We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time."
The Seer, p. 172 (1853)
I gather, then, that Jude 3 is missing from your copy of the Bible?
It would be nice if each of these descriptions were sourced.
The Mormon ones from their writings, and the Christian ones from the Bible.
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