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Cristiada (Trailer for Upcoming Movie W. Andy Garcia, Peter O'Toole on 1920s Persecution in Mexico)
YouTube ^ | 03/30/2011 | n/a

Posted on 03/30/2011 6:26:10 PM PDT by Pyro7480

"A chronicle of the Cristeros War (1926-1929), which was touched off by a rebellion against the Mexican government's attempt to secularize the country. The film follows the stories of ordinary people from across the country who choose to stand up for their freedom. Caught up in a full-fledged civil war, they all must decide how far they are willing to go and what they're willing to risk."


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; cristero; cristiada; mexico; movies
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Movie website: Cristiada

Starring:
Andy Garcia
Eva Longoria
Peter O'Toole
Eduardo Verastegui of Bella fame
Nestor Carbonell from Lost
Ruben Blades

Directed by Dean Wright, visual effects supervisor for the first two Chronicles of Narnia movies, and visual effects producer for Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers and Return of the King

Original Music by James Horner of Titanic, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, The Mask of Zorro, and Apollo 13 fame

1 posted on 03/30/2011 6:26:14 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 03/30/2011 6:28:02 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

I thought Peter O’Toole died?? I must be thinking of Bob Crane.


3 posted on 03/30/2011 6:29:54 PM PDT by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: Pyro7480

Sounds like an interesting film.


4 posted on 03/30/2011 6:40:27 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Pyro7480

It’s probably a fine movie, but I’ve walked out of two movies recently — both shown at church — because of my distaste for graphic violence.


5 posted on 03/30/2011 6:43:05 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (You is what you am.)
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To: Pyro7480

The Mexican caudillo of the time initiated priest hunts - kill-on-sight orders against Catholic priests.


6 posted on 03/30/2011 7:04:04 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always)
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To: Zhang Fei

Some of the Cristeros, including priests, also engaged in atrocities.


7 posted on 03/30/2011 7:18:57 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Pyro7480

Peter O’Toole is still alive? Who knew?


8 posted on 03/30/2011 7:29:39 PM PDT by Huck (Palin on Libya: Definitely a no-fly zone, definitely regime change, won't rule out ground troops.)
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To: Pyro7480
Father Miguel Pro is one of my personal heroes. We could use men like him in the priesthood today.

An assassination attempt by bombing against Álvaro Obregón (which only wounded the ex-president) in November 1927 provided the state with a pretext to capture Fr. Miguel Pro and his brothers Humberto and Roberto. A young engineer who was involved and confessed his part in the assassination testified the Pro brothers were not involved. [7] Miguel and his brothers were taken to the Detective Inspector's Office in Mexico City.

On November 13, 1927, President Calles gave orders to have Pro executed under the pretext of the assassination, but in reality for defying the virtual outlawing of Catholicism. [5] Calles had the execution meticulously photographed, and the newspapers throughout the country carried them on the front page the following day. Presumably, Calles thought that the sight of the pictures would frighten the Cristero rebels who were fighting against his troops, particularly in the state of Jalisco. However, they had the opposite effect.

Fr. Pro and his brothers were visited by Generals Roberto Cruz and Palomera Lopez around 11 p.m. on November 22, 1927. The next day, as Fr. Pro walked from his cell to the courtyard and the firing squad, he blessed the soldiers, knelt and briefly prayed quietly. Declining a blindfold, he faced his executioners with a crucifix in one hand and a rosary in the other and held his arms out in imitation of the crucified Christ and shouted out, "May God have mercy on you! May God bless you! Lord, Thou knowest that I am innocent! With all my heart I forgive my enemies!" [5] Before the firing squad were ordered to shoot, Pro raised his arms in imitation of Christ and shouted the defiant cry of the Cristeros, "Viva Cristo Rey!" -"Long live Christ the King!" [5]. When the initial shots of the firing squad failed to kill him, a soldier shot him point blank.

People lined the streets for miles when his body was transported from the prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_Pro
9 posted on 03/30/2011 7:32:13 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Sherman Logan

So, in your opinion, there’s a moral equivalence between the two sides?


10 posted on 03/30/2011 7:34:45 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Frantzie; Huck

I just looked him up on IMDB. He will be 79 and has 3 movies coming out this year!


11 posted on 03/30/2011 7:36:43 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Sherman Logan
Some of the Cristeros, including priests, also engaged in atrocities.

I'd like to read the source for this claim.
12 posted on 03/30/2011 7:39:33 PM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Straight Vermonter

Maybe he had all his money in a Madoff account and had to come out of retirement.


13 posted on 03/30/2011 7:42:29 PM PDT by Huck (Palin on Libya: Definitely a no-fly zone, definitely regime change, won't rule out ground troops.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Wow!

I am not Catholic, but I would have stood by them against such tyranny.

First they came for the Jews....


14 posted on 03/30/2011 7:46:17 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Our people perish through lack of wisdom, but they are content in their ignorance.)
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To: Pyro7480

Well, it’s certainly not a case of brutal government persecuting unresisting Christians as in ancient Rome.

While the government was certainly brutal enough, the Catholics resisted quite effectively, to the point that estimates have considerably more casualties on the federal side than on that of the rebels.

You can call that religious persecution if you like, but it looks a lot more like a civil war to me.

To answer your question directly, there are degrees of moral equivalence. Seldom in human affairs is one side utterly evil and the other totally good. So most of the time either accepting full moral equivalence or rejecting it completely is inappropriate.

The question is (usually) not one of whether moral equivalence exists, it is one of how much in a particular case.


15 posted on 03/30/2011 7:46:51 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Some of the Cristeros, including priests, also engaged in atrocities.” ==========

Oh, RI-i-g-h-t. And your footnotes are where?


16 posted on 03/30/2011 7:51:05 PM PDT by RitaOK
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Cristero.htm

Father Jose Vega was particularly notorious. He reportedly had a train full of civilians doused with gasoline and ignited in revenge for the death of his brother in combat. Not exactly Christ-like.

Many hundreds of rural schoolteachers were also assassinated before, during and after the war by those who thought the Church should instruct children.


17 posted on 03/30/2011 7:52:02 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

“Well, it’s certainly not a case of brutal government persecuting unresisting Christians as in ancient Rome.”

It started that way, as it did in Spain a few years later. In Spain the army revolted against the elected government when it took no action to protect the Church or even basic property rights from the Bolshevik mobs; the Communist government literally outlawed Mass (and killed twelve or thirteen bishops, on top of thousands of priests and dozens of nuns). As in Mexico, many of those religious also proclaimed “Viva Cristo Rey!” as they were martyred; it became the battle cry of the Carlists on the Nationalist side.

The current (Leftist) government of Spain has erased that history; thankfully the Vatican has been canonizing the martyrs of the war in Spain (and some from Mexico as well) so that nobody can deny the events of the first half of the 20th century. The Left is still as focused as it was then, and has lulled people into complacency as they divert attention to nonsense while they keep Marx’s dream alive.


18 posted on 03/30/2011 8:48:43 PM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: Sherman Logan
Thanks for the link. Interesting history lesson. Do you have an idea which “side” the film portrays positively?
19 posted on 03/30/2011 8:55:07 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: Huck
Peter O’Toole is still alive? Who knew?

Yep, he's a amazing actor. My bet is on him playing this character: Exiled Mexican conservatives appealed to Catholic France, Catholic Spain and the pope, plus other Europeans. French, Spanish and some English forces invaded Mexico, driving Juarez to the north. A Habsburg noble, Maximilian, was installed as emperor -- but he was slow to revoke the anticlerical laws. The clergy and the pope's emissary felt betrayed. Europeans withdrew their military backing. Juarez regrouped, defeated Maximilian's militia, and executed the emperor in 1867.

20 posted on 03/30/2011 8:58:39 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums

This movie is about events that happened 60 years after Maximilian’s death, in the early part of the 20th Century.


21 posted on 03/30/2011 10:20:15 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Campion

Thanks. What do you think Mr. O’Toole’s role will be?


22 posted on 03/30/2011 10:26:18 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: Pyro7480

Interesting. It was a little-known conflict, but the viciousness of the secularists against the Christians made a big impression on Mexico-born William F. Buckley and IMO strongly informed his eventual political beliefs, a.k.a. the modern conservative movement. A fascinating butterfly-effect thing.


23 posted on 03/30/2011 10:34:55 PM PDT by denydenydeny (Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak-Adams)
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To: Sherman Logan
Well, it was a religious war, like that in the Vendee during the French Revolution. The government was in the hands of men hostile to the Church AND to the Catholic Faith. It was part of the Terror. I said a religious War. The neo-apollonian faith of the Jacobins (free-masonry,really) vs. the Catholics. A similar suppression of the Church took place during then Russian Civil War, where more than 1000 Orthodox priests were executed by the Reds. Anything to suppress "feudalism." The war in Mexico was similar.
24 posted on 03/30/2011 10:56:48 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: boatbums
Do you have an idea which “side” the film portrays positively?

Nope. Seems unlikely it would be the Catholic side, though. I never expect positive treatment for the conservative/Christian side. I'm happy to just get recognition that those on this side acted in good faith.

25 posted on 03/31/2011 3:22:35 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: kearnyirish2
It started that way, as it did in Spain a few years later.

"Started" only if you edit out the history of Spain and Mexico prior to the 20th.

In both countries the Church supported the aristocracy, the "right" in European terms, which is very different from the the American right, who would have been considered wild-eyed radicals in both countries.

In Mexico, for instance, and I believe in Spain, members of the Church and army officers were not subject to the same laws as the rest of the people. They had their own courts, which essentially made them above the law.

The revolutions in both countries were against regimes that were essentially the same as that in France prior to its revolution. The American Revolution, OTOH, was against a system that had already rejected the "old regime" of the middle ages.

I am perfectly well aware that horrible atrocities were committed by the revolutionaries in France, Mexico and Spain. At least some of the responsibility for this lies with the Church in these countries, which resisted reasonable reforms and caused pressure to build up to where it exploded violently.

26 posted on 03/31/2011 3:31:57 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

The Left in Spain was not only attempting to destroy the Church; it was trying to destroy the middle and upper classes, as well as the army. Spain’s king had abdicated in 1931, and they had a republic. After the election of 1936 one of the first actions of the new Communist government was to outlaw the Falange, an opposition party from the right - could you imagine if Obama’s first actions in 2008 had been to outlaw the Republican Party? Also, the Church had its problems with Franco as well.

You are applying American values in terms of democracy and secularism that had no place in Spain ot its former colonies; they have a very different history and culture than the US or England. While the Church had a hand in unfolding events, that can’t justify the mass killings of average Catholics simply for practicing their faith. In the end, after saving “Uncle Joe” Stalin in WWII, we eventually went to Franco with our hat in hand asking for help in the Cold War; he consented, and gave a moving speech at the time about how sad it was for us to so belatedly realize what he had fought against alone years before - he literally had the first victory against Communism.

Our military is not subject to the same laws as we are, either.


27 posted on 03/31/2011 3:53:29 AM PDT by kearnyirish2
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To: Pyro7480

Peter O Toole is still alive????


28 posted on 03/31/2011 3:55:40 AM PDT by mware
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To: boatbums
Check out the youtube.

O'Toole plays a priest in the movie. From the trailer it appears they are going to put the priests and people in a postitive light.

Here are a few of the sentences in the trialer.

When the government made faith illegal.

The people became outlaws.

In the name of FReedom.

Might be worth watching. I'll see what EWTN says about it.

29 posted on 03/31/2011 4:07:19 AM PDT by mware
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To: kearnyirish2
I generally agree with you.

I was just trying to point out that the violent reaction against the Church in Mexico and Spain didn't just pop up out of nowhere as a similar reaction in this country would.

There were reasons, many quite legitimate, why so many people hated the Church in Mexico and Spain.

The repression of the common people in Mexico and Spain was far more severe than that in the American colonies which led to our revolution. Their revolutions, when they eventually came, were therefore more or less by definition far more extreme than ours.

Our military is not subject to the same laws as we are, either.

Unless I'm quite confused, an American army officer accused of murdering a civilian in Denver will be tried in CO criminal court. His military status is irrelevant in such a case. In Mexico and Spain prior to their revolutions he would have been tried before an army court and almost always set free to kill again.

Similar situations applied in Church courts.

30 posted on 03/31/2011 4:10:34 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: boatbums

Good call. You’re probably right. I still like to watch him in Lion in Winter from time to time.


31 posted on 03/31/2011 4:43:07 AM PDT by Huck (Palin on Libya: Definitely a no-fly zone, definitely regime change, won't rule out ground troops.)
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To: boatbums; Huck

He’s a good actor, but I think O’Toole’s movies lately have been unworthy of him. Lawrence of Arabia was once one of my favorite movies.


32 posted on 03/31/2011 5:11:34 AM PDT by Cronos (Christians&OPC/PCA don’t worship the same God:Our's is love, theirs predestines ppl 2eternal tormen)
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To: Cronos; Anoreth

“Lawrence of Arabia” is the one perfect movie ever made.

This looks very interesting, with a terrific cast. Andy Garcia is one of the Right Guys; he’d be welcome at our Free Cuba party, if we ever get to have it.


33 posted on 03/31/2011 5:34:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Nadie me ama como Jesus.)
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To: Cronos; Anoreth

“Lawrence of Arabia” is the one perfect movie ever made.

This looks very interesting, with a terrific cast. Andy Garcia is one of the Right Guys; he’d be welcome at our Free Cuba party, if we ever get to have it.


34 posted on 03/31/2011 5:35:55 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Nadie me ama como Jesus.)
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To: Pyro7480

Is there any indication of a release date? I looked a bit, but I don’t go to Facebook and I didn’t see anything on the film site link.


35 posted on 03/31/2011 5:39:10 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Nadie me ama como Jesus.)
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To: Sherman Logan

This began long before the civil wars in Mexico and Spain. Perhaps we could say in both cases that it began with Napoleon, or at any rate, Napoleon in his character as sequel to French Revolutionary thought.

For Napoleon, the state was all. This applied to his followers, too; the Spanish “afrancesados,” that is, francophiles, who represented what we in the US would call liberals or the left, began to attack the Church even in the First (Spanish) Republic. This, in fact, was one of the reasons that the First Republic failed, because it lost the support of the people after its immediate attacks on the Church, which it realized to be its one rival.

However, it came back again in the person of “reformist” cabinet ministers, and the Church and its religious orders were soon stripped of their property and even evicted from Spain during the 1830’s and onwards. This eventually led to resistance from Catholics, expressed during the bloody events of the Carlist Wars at the end of the 19th century.

These currents were reflected in Spanish colonies, too, particularly in Mexico (which, remember, was originally called “Nueva Espana”).

In addition to the native leftist, statist politics, both Mexico and Spain suffered from foreign leftist intrusion, and they seemed to be magnets for radical left-wingers (remember, Trotsky died in Mexico, assassinated by a Mexican Soviet agent).

Interestingly, one of the first things done by the statist forces that you are defending was to attack Catholic education. In Spain, in the 19th century, the government virtually shut down education, because it could not meet the educational needs of the poor who had traditionally been educated by the Church but it was determined not to let the Church continue to teach them. At later dates, in both Spain and Mexico, Catholic school teachers were hauled out of their classrooms and killed by the leftists, and Catholic schools and social inititiaves helping the poor were virtually the first targets of the left.

The state will brook no rivals. This is not to defend violence on the side of the Church and the right, but you have to realize that this was the product of an anti-Church war of over 100 years on the part of the left.


36 posted on 03/31/2011 7:02:24 AM PDT by livius
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To: Sherman Logan

Military justice still exists in the US, and whether a person is tried in a military or civilian court depends on a variety of factors.

The Church has always had canonical courts, but of course they were not allowed to impose certain punishments (this was one of the reasons that the State was involved in the Inquisition, since people were handed over to the State after their canonical trials). The level of jurisdiction depended upon agreements between the Vatican and the state in question.

Normally, the two functioned rather similarly: the Church did maintain “penitentiaries,” which were essentially harsh monastic jails for clergy convicted of crimes, and in certain cases would combine with the State to punish particular crimes. After the Cura Merino (a leftist activist, btw) tried to assassinate Isabel II, he was sentenced to be garroted...but only after Church officials had sliced and cut off the pads of his fingers, where he had received his priestly annointing. So sometimes this didn’t work out very well for the clergy...


37 posted on 03/31/2011 7:18:26 AM PDT by livius
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To: Sherman Logan; boatbums

If you watch the trailer, you get the distinct impression that they portray the Cristeros positively.


38 posted on 03/31/2011 7:26:24 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Sherman Logan; boatbums; Carpe Cerevisi
"Vega was a priest in name only who entered the seminary under the pressure of his family and who made no pretense of living a virtuous life or of remaining celibate. Indeed, Vega was renowned for his cruelty and Cardinal Davila, deemed him a 'black-hearted assassin.'"

Between that and the train incident, which was partially a train robbery, he wasn't exactly a model character all around.

39 posted on 03/31/2011 7:30:04 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Sherman Logan

The anti-clericalism in Mexico was rooted in the same ideology that drove the French Revolution of 1789, the revolutions in 1848, the Paris Commune, the Communist revolutions in Russia and Spain. The French enlightenment was animated by a hatred of the Church that soon spilled into hatred of Christianity in general. Even Protestant England and America was thunderstruck by the appearance of anti-Christ in France. The English and Scottish Enlightenment had no such animus. Even Gibbon, no friend of Christianity, was horrified by the slaughter. In their desire to uproot what the Jacobins called “Feudalism”—they stopped at nothing. There was no balance in their thinking, and one can find it today even in or own country as some seek to purge the public square of Christian influence.


40 posted on 03/31/2011 8:24:44 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: kearnyirish2

****The current (Leftist) government of Spain has erased that history;****

It is interesting to see how Hollywood has protrayed the Spanish Civil War through the years.

FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS (anti-Franco)
THE ANGEL WORE RED (anti-communist)
PAN’S LABYRYNTH (Anti-Franco)


41 posted on 03/31/2011 8:56:08 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Hey buddy, did you just see a real bright light?)
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To: Huck

Good call. You’re probably right. I still like to watch him in Lion in Winter from time to time.

Don’t forget BECKET!


42 posted on 03/31/2011 9:02:26 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Hey buddy, did you just see a real bright light?)
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To: Pyro7480

Didn’t Henry Fonda play a similar role in THE FUGITIVE back in the 1930s?


43 posted on 03/31/2011 9:45:40 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Hey buddy, did you just see a real bright light?)
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To: Pyro7480

Thanks for the heads up. It looks like justice may be done on film for a change. Viva Cristo Rey!


44 posted on 03/31/2011 10:21:39 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: livius
one of the first things done by the statist forces that you are defending was to attack Catholic education.

Not defending them at all. Merely pointing out that their presence was the result, as another poster pointed out, of a very different history than America's.

The Inquisition was still active and executing people in both Spain and her colonies in the early 19th century. There was, by law, no religious freedom. The death penalty existed and was enforced for heresy. Not unlike the present penalties for apostasy in Muslim countries.

IOW, the Catholicism against which the leftists of Spain and Mexico rebelled was a part of the state, of the oppressive system against which they fought. Far more oppressive than anything in American history. So, while regrettable, it is not surprising that the reaction against a truly oppressive Church was itself much more violent than anything in US history.

45 posted on 03/31/2011 10:31:34 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Pyro7480

What!!! Peter O’Toole is still alive???


46 posted on 03/31/2011 11:02:29 AM PDT by rhinohunter (I think Jeb's very happy in Florida, and I hope he'll stay there.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Yes, as that movie was based on the novel, “The Power and the Glory,” by Graham Greene, which was about the Mexican persecution.


47 posted on 03/31/2011 11:31:46 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Sherman Logan; livius
IOW, the Catholicism against which the leftists of Spain and Mexico rebelled was a part of the state, of the oppressive system against which they fought. Far more oppressive than anything in American history. So, while regrettable, it is not surprising that the reaction against a truly oppressive Church was itself much more violent than anything in US history.

It sounds like you're trying to explain away the leftists' actions. Their ideology was going to target the Church and religion in general, regardless of its level of influence.

48 posted on 03/31/2011 11:39:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: BlackElk

Martiros de los Caballeros de Colon de Mexico, ora por nosotros.

I might find this film an occasion of sin. There is nothing like a handsome Latino gentleman, especially if he plays the guitar.


49 posted on 03/31/2011 2:16:10 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Nadie me ama como Jesus.)
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To: Frantzie

Please-don’t compare them. Bob Crane was a pervert. Peter O’Toole is a “movie star” and wonderful actor.
From “My Favourite Year” with Peter O’Toole as Alan Swann:

Alan Swann: Damn you! I’m not an actor, I’m a movie star!

[Benjy Stone and a very drunken Alan Swann are up on a roof as Swann attempts to shimmy down the side of the building]
Benjy Stone: Let’s *not* do this - it’s too dangerous!
Alan Swann: Nonsense! It worked perfectly well in “A Slight Case of Divorce”!
Benjy Stone: That was a movie! This is real life!
Alan Swann: What is the difference?


50 posted on 03/31/2011 2:24:38 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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