Posted on 05/23/2011 3:30:49 PM PDT by TaraP
Just a question in regards to Camping's failed May 21st prediction....
If the dead are raptured first, how long before the *Church* is raptured?
1 Thes. 4:13-18. This description of the Rapture says "The Lord himself will come down from heaven," "the dead in Christ will rise first," and "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
It says Jesus will come down from heaven but not anything about Jesus returning to heaven. I believe that the saints will meet Jesus in the clouds and follow him back to the Earth where he will set up his Millennial Kingdom...
So, the question is, does the Rapture of the Church come before the Tribulation, in the middle of the Tribulation or after the Tribulation?
Matthew 24. This entire chapter is an answer to the disciples questions about the destruction of the Temple, Jesus' coming and the end of the age.
Jesus talks about false christs, persecution, and desolation of the Holy Place. Verses 4 to 35 appear to be a chronological narative about the events.
"Immediately after the distress of those days,". "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky,"
"He will send his angels" "gather his elect from the four winds,"
It seems to refer that the Rapture of the Church comes after the Tribulation.
Colossians 3:12 where he is clearly speaking to Christians
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
We as Christians will have to go through the Great Tribulation, the ones that don't are the ones that have died in Christ....
Lastly:
Not sure how Camping came up with a 6p.m date for destruction, but strange enough both the Volcanic eruption and tornado in Joplin happened at 6 p.m in there respective time zones....
Thoughts?
True Believer Syndrome. I read first that “no man knows the hour” so it is the most arrogant hubris to assume that any human scholar can invent the day of my Savior’s return. Additionally, when He returns, I read that his foot will touch the mountain and shatter it, and all the world will know it. Not much secret about that.
So then how do you know when the dead are raptured? they are raptured first, not together with the Church who is alive on earth....
“So then how do you know when the dead are raptured?”
Grab a shovel!
I was stupid enough to waste some time listening to his formulas on one of his recordings and it is basically a weird concoction of numerology, biblomancy and a lot of assumptions.
Thoughts?
Camping is a nutcase.
And no “secret rapture” occured.
But it is a “nice try” for someone who is grasping at raptured straws.
Jesus comes for his church before the tribulation:
1 Thessalonians 1:10 -
“and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.”
I want to be an overcomer, I want to have faith, I want to be known by Him ... I work on these goals ... I pray for others and witness to folks so they will have a chance to
find saving faith in Jesus, meanwhile, the time is drawing nigh ... May I stay on His straight narrow path till He calls me, one way or the other & whether it’s one hour or fifty years from now.
I pray all others do the same. I love the parable of the five wise handmaidens and the five foolish handmaidens. Helps me remember what’s important.
Thanks for the ping, sis.
Camping’s billboards said “The Bible guarantees it”, which is the same assurance we hear every day from others here and elsewhere, regarding many other matters. Who do you believe and why?
GOD’s wrath is not the same as the Great Tribulation...
I am just saying Camping could of mixed up the Rapture of the Dead from the Rapture of the church..
that’s all....
There are a huge number of Freepers who are Catholic so don’t expect to get the type of answer you are looking for about the Rapture from everyone.
That being said, I’m no theologian or expert on the order of events in prophecy, but I’ve always took that first part “”the dead in Christ will rise first,” to mean that when a Christian dies their Spirit will be lifted up to heaven at the time of death to be in the Presence of Jesus. And at the Rapture, the living Christians will join them. And most who believe in the Rapture believes this happens at the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation.
I do believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture, mainly because the Tribulation period is seven years, and there is allot that needs to happen in just the first 3 ½ years of it. It would take Global Chaos for one man, the antichrist to enter the Worlds stage and deceive nearly everyone LEFT on the planet, (all the peoples of the World in all religions) in such a short period of time. The only type of “Global Disaster” I could think of on that scale would be for 200 or 300 million Christians to just vanish. And the whole point for the belief in the Rapture is we don’t believe Jesus meant for the Saved to have to suffer through the horrors that will happen to the planet during those seven years. And because he loves us so much and does not wish that any shall parish into eternal Hell, he knows it will take a great shake-up of those left to finally get them to listen. The “tough love” that so many of us fathers are familiar with. That we believe is the whole point of the Tribulation. Many will be saved during this time but they will be persecuted horribly, much like the first Church was, with public executions and torture, only to be ended with the physical return of Christ.
First of all, the Tribulation is the "time of Jacob's trouble", a time for purifying Israel in addition to judging this Christ-rejecting world.
Second, God has a history of getting His people off the scene before He sends judgment (Noah, Lot) and tells those who know Him as Savior that we are not "appointed to wrath".
Third, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place in Heaven while the Tribulation is going on on earth and that can't happen if we go up to meet Christ then turn right around and come back.
There is also the issue of, since those who are raptured receive glorified bodies which will not be equipped to reproduce, there being no one to populate the Millennial Kingdom if the Rapture is post-Trib, which would contradict the Scripture which tells us that those who are saved during the Tribulation and survive go into the Millennial Kingdom and work and have children.
There are many, many more Biblical evidences of a pre-Trib Rapture. You really have to ignore a lot and twist a lot of Scripture to make a post-Trib Rapture work.
Apologies to Freepers who might have already followed this link, but we show that the Bible never even mentions the end of the world, and the rapture happened in the first century: www.prophecyquestions.wordpress.com.
Do you know if the dead have been raptured?
Do I?
NO...
It’s a Secret....Maybe.
The Scripture that you cited, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is referring to those who have died (”are alseep”) who believed in Christ. Paul is saying that when Jesus comes in the clouds to receive His own to Himself (called the “rapture”) He will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus—those believers who have died.
16 He will descend from heven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first—in other words, all those believers in Christ who have died before this will be raised first, ahead of the believers who are alive here on earth.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the LORD.
In other words, both believers in Christ who have died and believers in Christ who are still alive when He comes will be caught up together to be with Him forever, but those who have died in Him will be first. This is when we all get our new glorified bodies; this is the redemption of all our bodies.
The Rapture has come and gone.
Looks like no one qualified.
According to one of his followers who was on the radio the Friday before, he said that the physical bodies would rise up from the grave. The radio host asked him point blank, “If I go out to the cemetery Saturday, I will see them come out of the ground? His answer was yes, you would see the bodies come out.
So NO, Camping did not teach them of a secret Rapture. And no the Rapture did not occur Saturday of the living or the dead.
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