The Fountainhead of Satanism

First Things ^ | June 8 2011 | Joe Carter

[GOP Poet]

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[harmonium]

” Jay-Z, a rapper calls himself J-Hova, and has a song called Lucifer. He basically sings praises to the “god of the morning star.”

Not that Jay-Z along with other artists, aren’t guilty of using the imagery, I have to correct you on this song. The song Lucifer is about Suge Knight, blaming him for Tupac’s death, and likening him to a devil.

The sample by Max Romeo goes”Lucifer son of the morning, I’m going to chase you off this earth”...so the singer is challenging the devil, not championing the devil.

[danielmryan]

Short of Darwin, that would be the most often credited inspiration, definitely.

And if I were a judgmental "Randroid," I'd make the claim that the author was using Rand as a scapegoat because he lacked the cojones to go after Nietzsche. That kind of claim is indicative of Rand's kind of moralism.

Incidentally: there's a neat political criticism of Rand that's not often seen, in large part because too many Rand critics take the easy way out by repeating japes that amount to "Don't read her!!!" They make little sense to anyone who had read and understood her work, and thus make Randians more loyal to Rand. We tend to stick with someone longer than we otherwise would if that someone is maligned.

Here's the criticism, which is really one against all forms of individual-centric libertarianism: concentrating upon the individual leaves individuals vulnerable to Big Government of the liberal sort. A nation of individualists fits the liberal-statists' model of a big government overseeing isolated individuals, where governemnt replaces voluntaryist mutual help with the coercive kind. Thus, individualism (in and of itself) offers no bulwark against liberalism.

If you like this argument, you should check out the works of Alexis de Tocqueville and Robert Nisbet.

[death2tyrants]

minus what that guy posted while it was happening

I take it that guy isn't a big fan of the Texas Longhorns.

[Elendur]

i’ll concede that Rand is wrong on some things also.

and i’ll admit my ignorance of Rand’s specific philosophy.
but, i know my Bible fairly well. and i’d like to hear the author give specifics where it’s Satanic. instead of generalized statements slamming her, like that Government lawyer did today when he defended Obamacare.

and i know Rand was an atheist. so was Oriana Fallaci. and i certainly wouldn’t call her Satanic !!!

socialism and capitalism are basically opposite.
and yes, i know about early Christian communities.
but, i also know the Bible has many statements about the workman being worthy of his hire, and statements supporting that if you don’t work, you don’t eat.

in history, looking at results, i think there is no question, that socialism is much more “satanic” than Capitalism.

and, i have seen the progressives, liberals, and communists, try to “USE” our religion against us.

(like all the left wing churches promoting the global warming hoax... while NASA says the UHI effect alone is worth 8.0 degrees average, and the world has been COOLING overall, since 2003...)

and those same people who try to use quote our religion when it serves their purposes, are the SAME people, that CLOSE adoption centers, and fire medical workers, for following words from that exact same Bible...

[danielmryan]

i know my Bible fairly well. and i’d like to hear the author give specifics where it’s Satanic.

The article relies upon conflating anti-Christianity with Satanism.

[Cronos]

thanks

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

“...For, from the time that the Bishop of Rome had gotten to be acknowledged for bishop universal, by pretence of succession to St. Peter, their whole hierarchy, or kingdom of darkness, may be compared not unfitly to the kingdom of fairies; that is, to the old wives’ fables in England concerning ghosts and spirits, and the feats they play in the night. And if a man consider the original of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof: for so did the papacy start up on a sudden out of the ruins of that heathen power...

The fairies in what nation soever they converse have but one universal king, which some poets of ours call King Oberon; but the Scripture calls Beelzebub, prince of demons. The ecclesiastics likewise, in whose dominions soever they be found, acknowledge but one universal king, the Pope.”

Thomas Hobbes... Leviathan... 1651

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

"But in those places where the presbytery took that office, though many other doctrines of the Church of Rome were forbidden to be taught; yet this doctrine, that the kingdom of Christ is already come, and that it began at the resurrection of our Saviour, was still retained. But cui bono? What profit did they expect from it? The same which the popes expected: to have a sovereign power over the people. For what is it for men to excommunicate their lawful king, but to keep him from all places of God's public service in his own kingdom; and with force to resist him when he with force endeavoureth to correct them? Or what is it, without authority from the civil sovereign, to excommunicate any person, but to take from him his lawful liberty, that is, to usurp an unlawful power over their brethren? The authors therefore of this darkness in religion are the Roman and the Presbyterian clergy...

...The fairies in what nation soever they converse have but one universal king, which some poets of ours call King Oberon; but the Scripture calls Beelzebub, prince of demons. The ecclesiastics likewise, in whose dominions soever they be found, acknowledge but one universal king, the Pope...

...When the fairies are displeased with anybody, they are said to send their elves to pinch them. The ecclesiastics, when they are displeased with any civil state, make also their elves, that is, superstitious, enchanted subjects, to pinch their princes, by preaching sedition; or one prince, enchanted with promises, to pinch another."

Thomas Hobbes... Leviathan... 1651

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

And if I were a judgmental "Randroid," I'd make the claim that the author was using Rand as a scapegoat because he lacked the cojones to go after Nietzsche.

I would say you are wrong...

Thomas Hobbes is better than all of them combined...

In fact, Rand, Nietzsche, Locke, the whole synod of presbyters and conclaves of papists cannot make a scratch on Thomas Hobbes.

I like Ayn Rand, but I'm no devotee...

Hobbes nailed these religious fakes to the wall in 1651.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Yes, you are pretty accurate on that point...

If anything is “satanic,” it is the establishment of ecclesiastic authority, a praeterpolitical body that passes the collection plate at gunpoint for the gods of communism...

That is exactly what the author of the article advocates.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

The use of dead people... is a sort of necromancy...

The whole point of this posting, and this person posting it, is to promote communism and dissent among the ranks of this loose coalition of true libertarian thinking on Free Republic...

It is yet another ploy by the minions of the Left... beware...

[Cronos]

Hobbes made quite a few errors of his own...not the least the social contract theory that I see as leading to the rise of Marx's ideas (have you read Das Kapital -- surprisingly good read, but I deviate)

I disagree with Hobbes's political points - his elevation of the state to "mortal godhood" gives moral reasoning to kleptocracies

My own views are libertarian. Hobbes disregards the morals of the free market

[Cronos]

When individuals are in charge of their own destiny rather than subject to the “mortal god” state, I believe they have reasons for co-operating with each other. The wars of the state or the Hobbesian ideal of the centralised state created Sparta, the early Islamic Empire, Prussia, Nazi Germany and led to WWI and II

[RoadGumby]

You did fine, some are ‘touchy’. Welcome to FR.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Morality and any associated ideal is rooted entirely in a presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior...

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Free market = so long as someone is willing to pay, there is always someone willing to collect...

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

When individuals are in charge of their own destiny rather than subject to the “mortal god” state, I believe they have reasons for co-operating with each other.

Nature is pure war with every man against another. Fear of death is the only way to keep the peace, so man is civilized by the threat of violence against him for transgressions upon his neighbor.

It doesn't always work...

[Cronos]

Morality and any associated ideal is rooted entirely in a presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior...

Yes -- and Hobbes defined this as the centralized state. Some of the most law-abiding folks I know in Germany and Eastern Europe are atheists -- they have put their faith in the state

In the US many people around in DE and NY believed in their god, the TV and went to worship each Sunday at the mall..

[Logic n' Reason]

When I read the title of this thread, I thought you were talking about the stain that defaces the Oval Office.....

Sorry.....