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Daniel-in-lionís-den moment for new Catholic archbishop of free-wheeling Berlin
Faith World ^ | July 6, 2011

Posted on 07/06/2011 12:48:09 PM PDT by NYer

Like Daniel in the lion’s den, Berlin’s new Catholic archbishop met the media on Tuesday to face accusations he was homophobic and far too conservative for such a prominent post in the free-wheeling German capital. Rainer Maria Woelki, a surprise choice for the high-profile post, professed respect for gays, denied membership in the staunchly conservative Opus Dei group and said he did not come to Berlin to point a censuring finger at non-Catholics.

Berlin’s gay community and liberal media reacted with dismay to his appointment last week, saying the Cologne-based prelate was “backwards-minded” and the wrong man for the job. But interest in the new prelate was so strong that the Catholic Church, a minority of about 390,000 in a 3.5 million population mostly indifferent or hostile to religion, had to switch the news conference to a larger hall at the last minute to accomodate over 100 journalists who turned out.

“We will meet with each other,” Woelki, 54, said when asked about the city’s active gay community. “I have respect and esteem for all people independent of heritage, skin colour and individual nature. I am open to all without reservations.” Describing himself simply as Catholic, he denied being a member of Opus Dei despite having done his doctorate at the group’s Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome. That part of his biography led to media reports over the weekend calling him “reactionary.”

“The Church is not a moral institution that goes around pointing its finger at people,” Woelki said. “The Church is for me a community of seekers and believers and the Church would like to help people find their hapiness in life.”

The left-wing daily Tageszeitung said it had expected the worst from Woelki’s premiere but concluded: “You can talk with the man of God.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: berlin; germany

St. Hedwig's Catholic Cathedral in Berlin, 20 June 2009
1 posted on 07/06/2011 12:48:14 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer
Looks like his words are already being twisted.

I'd like to see a German transcript.

2 posted on 07/06/2011 12:50:19 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Bishop Rainer Maria Woelki

Until his new assignment, Woelki was an auxiliary bishop in Cologne to Cardinal Joachim Meisner, an arch-conservative with close ties to German-born Pope Benedict. He was hardly known outside that western German city, where he was born. Woelki’s Opus Dei aademic credentials, link to Meisner and statements reaffirming the Church view that homosexual acts are sinful sparked off a storm in Berlin.

Uh-oh! A societal non conformist.

3 posted on 07/06/2011 12:51:14 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

**Woelki’s Opus Dei aademic credentials,**

He conservative if he’s Opus Dei


4 posted on 07/06/2011 12:54:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

**Woelki’s Opus Dei aademic credentials,**

He’s conservative if he’s Opus Dei


5 posted on 07/06/2011 12:54:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wideawake

The RC needs to get serious about confronting sodomites, both inside and outside the RC.


6 posted on 07/06/2011 12:58:53 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: NYer
Don't you just love it when the libs get upset when a REAL Catholic is actually appointed in the Church hierarchy?
7 posted on 07/06/2011 12:58:54 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Can you afford to board the Chattanooga Choo-Choo?)
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To: Salvation

But he’s not. They have to qualify “Opus Dei credentials” with “academic.” He’s not a member of Opus Dei but they need a smear, so they reached for the fact that his degree is from an Opus Dei university. Cheap shot, typical Leftist cheap shot.


8 posted on 07/06/2011 12:59:06 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Salvation

Imagine my surprise. Pope appoints a Catholic. Who’d’a thunk it?!


9 posted on 07/06/2011 1:05:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Non plaudite. Modo pecuniam jacite." - - Don't applaud. ....Just throw money)
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To: NYer
>>“The Church is not a moral institution that goes around pointing its finger at people,” Woelki said.<<

Now there’s a feller rooted in scripture. /s

10 posted on 07/06/2011 2:11:19 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: NYer

The church certainly doesn’t need any homophobes, but what it sure could use are a whole bunch more “homophobes.”


11 posted on 07/06/2011 2:20:39 PM PDT by dangus
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To: Mrs. Don-o

But in bastions of Sodomite culture like most large liberal West European cities around the world and in the US and Australia, appointing Bishops who are serious about the Catholic Catechism is considered an act of war. They’d rather endure a 9/11 than have the central planks of this culture questioned and found to be depraved. Look what happened yesterday when an Indian Minister of Health called homosexuality a gay disease.


12 posted on 07/06/2011 2:26:56 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: CynicalBear
I doubt that Woelki' total ecclesiology is reflected in that one line -- (((rolls eyes)) --- but it's true that the Church's main job is extending the Good News of Christ's gift of salvation to every person. Its ffirst and essential mission is winning souls, not condemnation.

Recommended reading: 1 Corinthian 13>

That is not to say that moral judgment is unnecessary; far from it. The reason Woelki is being ambushed by the gays with their typical crudity and fury is that he represents and expresses a moral judment against sin. And after "neither do I condemn you" comes "Go now, and sin no more." (John 8:11). Still, he is right when he says, like Jesus, that "I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."

That's John 12:46. For fellers who are rooted in Scripture.

13 posted on 07/06/2011 2:59:49 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Show me one who loves: he knows what I mean." St. Augustine)
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To: Steelfish

Exactly.


14 posted on 07/06/2011 3:00:42 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Show me one who loves: he knows what I mean." St. Augustine)
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To: CynicalBear; NYer

sure wish he would have mentioned Jesus Christ when describing what the Church is.
is there one bishop left in the world that is not ashamed of the Gospel???
the reason the Church exists is for the salvation of lost souls, not to make people “happy”
the falling away continues on course......


15 posted on 07/06/2011 3:04:06 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: NYer
statements reaffirming the Church view that homosexual acts are sinful

ONZ, anything but that!

16 posted on 07/06/2011 3:06:26 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("This is a revolution, damn it! We're going to have to offend somebody!" ~ John Adams)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
See #13.
17 posted on 07/06/2011 3:06:56 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Show me one who loves: he knows what I mean." St. Augustine)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

so if the gays find their “hapiness in life” having sexual relations with each other, is he going to help them do it?

his statement certainly leads me to that conclusion.

“....and the Church would like to help people find their hapiness in their life”

why didn’t he say the Church would like to help people find Jesus Christ in their life?


18 posted on 07/06/2011 3:15:13 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Mrs. Don-o
>>I doubt that Woelki' total ecclesiology is reflected in that one line -- (((rolls eyes))<<

Yeah right. That’s why he followed it with this line.

“The Church is for me a community of seekers and believers and the Church would like to help people find their hapiness in life.”

That’s the Church purpose for him? To help people find happiness? Not salvation, not conviction of sin and repentance, and not spiritual guidance but to find happiness in this world.

19 posted on 07/06/2011 3:18:57 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

CB, it pains me to say, but you are 100000% correct. AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.

“.....not salvation, not conviction of sin and repentance and not spiritual guidance....”

i had to repeat your words because i wish i said them!!


20 posted on 07/06/2011 3:24:37 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: NYer
"... accusations he was homophobic and far too conservative for such a prominent post in the free-wheeling German capital."

Who the Pope appoints is none of their dang business unless they're practicing Catholics. I guess that since they were so successful in applying "social pressure" to nearly annihilate the Lutheran Church in Germany they think the same sorts of public whining will be successful against the Catholic Church. The fact is that queers who demand that the Church change don't worship Christ but a creation of their own understanding and imagination. Otherwise they would recognize that man cannot dictate terms to Christ and demand entry into His Church with their "Great Gland Prostate" banner held high and their public sin ignored.

It's long past time for "too conservative", it's time to be very clear and downright demanding. Spell out exactly how heavy the cross we have to bear is and let everyone know that if you can't hack it, don't bother pretending you're a part of His Church. Anyone who accepts the burden will soon be shocked at how much Christ opens their eyes and eases their burdens, but that realization only comes after you adjust to the weight of the cross you have to carry in order to earnestly follow Christ.

21 posted on 07/06/2011 3:28:17 PM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
LOL Had to happen man! Hehe

Seriously, all the churches it seems to me are heading down the politically correct path. Very few church leaders today dare to stand unashamed and declare a sin a sin.

Oh, and don't let the pain get to ya. We'll disagree again soon. LOL

22 posted on 07/06/2011 3:43:12 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

i think you and i will also agree that Church leaders should heed Paul in 2 Timothy 4:2-3

Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings...

so yes, we will lock horns again i am sure, but at least we both have our eyes wide open about the falling away we are witnessing occur at lightning speed. it is very painful to witness. God bless you.


23 posted on 07/06/2011 4:00:13 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; CynicalBear; Tax-chick; don-o
Hasn't this thread shown several outstanding examples of a superficial level of news-reading? All we know about Rainer Woelki is that he: I think we can also be fairly confident that

OK. So, we're critiquing the few lines quoted by a Reuters news blog for being incomplete? ---of course, they're incomplete,there's a selection process going on here which is under Reuters' control, not Woelki's.

This is so elementary.

It reminds me of just a few days ago, when certain FReepers who shall remain nameless, fell for a blog post that said the Southern Baptist Convention approved of gay marriage.

Because Richard Land (SBC) said God approved of sexual relations in marriage!

And I had to jump into the thread and defend the Southern Baptist Convention--- on a point that should have been obvious to a competently-educated middle-schooler!

Now you've got somebody saying Bishop Woelki would approve of gays having sexual relations with each other, if that would help them "find happiness in life"?!

Slander. Rash judgment. Silly-on-stilts. Do our critical faculties turn into Play Doh in the hands of a Reuters blog writer?

Note to you, and to me, too: always ask Cui bono? And Sez who?

24 posted on 07/06/2011 4:36:47 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be" said the Cat,"or you wouldn't have come here.")
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Happiness?

This is what the archbishop was referring to and happiness as a final end has a history as long as the Church.

Please try to understand something before ridiculing it. The only way you can do that is to read it.

25 posted on 07/06/2011 4:46:46 PM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Mrs. Don-o; CynicalBear; Tax-chick

well, if you feel the man was edited why don’t you provide the quotes where he proclaimed the need for Faith in Christ or the reality of sin, including homosexual acts?
no, i am reading the words of a weak man who is looking to gain approval from the left and unbelievers by saying he just wants “hapiness” for everyone.
you misquote me, i didn’t he would approve of homosexual acts, i merely took his weasely words and asked if they included homosexual acts if that’s what made the homosexuals “happy”
is it too much to ask to have a bishop not be ashamed of the Gospel? to have a bishop declare the Word of God in it’s entirety and without compromise?
he had the perfect opportunity with 100 members of the press there and what did he do? he basically said to the left and the homosexual community “don’t worry about me, i will not proclaim Christ to you, i want you to be happy”
i repeat, is it too much to ask to have a bishop who is not ashamed of the Gospel?


26 posted on 07/06/2011 4:51:14 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: johniegrad

oh, ok, i am sure the homosexuals took his words to mean this.
no my friend, he was signalling the homosexuals have nothing to fear from him, he accepts everyone and he just wants them to be happy. isn’t gay another word for happy?


27 posted on 07/06/2011 4:55:27 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
>> Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings...<<

Wow, that verse touched my spirit. You and I stand shoulder to shoulder on that one. Amen in that the church leaders need to heed those words. I truly fear that it may come down to “where two or three are gathered in my name” rather then the organized religions we have known and grown up in. We truly will need to keep our eyes wide open and on our knees in prayer.

God bless you

28 posted on 07/06/2011 5:38:15 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Mrs. Don-o; johniegrad

It looks to me like some are projecting what they hope or wish he was saying rather then listening to his words.


29 posted on 07/06/2011 5:48:09 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

your two or three are gathered in my name comment reminds me of what Jesus said in Luke 18:8

I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

we both need to comfort ourselves with the knowledge that God is in charge and in Romans 8:28 Paul says that all things work out together for good to those who love God.


30 posted on 07/06/2011 5:54:32 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Thanks you for giving me the opportunity to point this out (from the article):

"Woelki’s ...statements reaffirming the Church view that homosexual acts are sinful sparked off a storm in Berlin."

I appreciate, too, the opportunity to see where you're coming from.

31 posted on 07/06/2011 6:43:35 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be" said the Cat,"or you wouldn't have come here.")
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To: CynicalBear
See #31.

Thanks again, and it's my bedtime, so Good Night to you, CynicalBear.

32 posted on 07/06/2011 6:46:33 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be" said the Cat,"or you wouldn't have come here.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o; CynicalBear

“i am open to all without reservation”
“i have respect and esteem for all people”
“ the Church would like to help all people find their hapiness in life”

i am coming from preaching Jesus to the lost, not making sinners “happy” with their sin. some seem to be fine with bishops being ashamed of the Gospel and wishing to be thought of well by men.

BTW - woelki’s statements reaffirming homosexual acts are sinful were not said at the press conference. the statements i quote above were said in front of at least 100 reporters and can only have one purpose, to make the homosexuals and unbelievers think he is not some narrow minded Christian, no he is enlightened, he respects everybody, he is “open” to everyone.
let’s pray the man develops a backbone and stops being ashamed of the Gospel.


33 posted on 07/06/2011 7:15:54 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Mrs. Don-o; CynicalBear
but it's true that the Church's main job is extending the Good News of Christ's gift of salvation to every person. Its ffirst and essential mission is winning souls, not condemnation.

As my dear departed Mama used to say, "You can catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar".

If you want folks to HEAR the Word of God, you have to be sure they are listening to you.

34 posted on 07/10/2011 1:41:53 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
>>If you want folks to HEAR the Word of God, you have to be sure they are listening to you.<<

Pointing out that scripture clearly states that sodomy is a sin is not condemnation. If the church or any one of us are unafraid to point out that sodomy is an abomination to God we fall flat. The so called Christian gay community is NOT admitting that they need to not be involved in the gay lifestyle but are looking for acceptance of it.

35 posted on 07/10/2011 2:09:03 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: SuziQ; CynicalBear; one Lord one faith one baptism
The question of "how" to evangelize an urgent one for me.

I have become concerned about one person I care about, a highly vulnerable young adult who calls himself "gay" but as far as I know has never had sexual contact with anyone, male or female. (Not that I'm surveilling him nor plying him with intimate questions; I've only observed -- and heard from him --- that he's quite a lonely as well as a stay-at-home type: no lover, no bars, no prowling about public places etc.)

His main problem in fact seems to be personal isolation, plus confusion. For instance, he sees Lady Gaga as a "compassionate" person, since she "reaches out" to people who are "different." Now, I have a fundamentally "different" view of Lady Gaga (!), but I must say that --- in her perverted as well as crassly self-promoting and money-making way --- she is appealing successfully to young confused people.

How successfully? Well, just her "official-version" youtube video of "Born This Way" has had 66 million viewers. And that's just one of hundreds of versions that are out there.

My thought is not that I want to "reach out like Lady Gaga does," but to "teach as Jesus did." He didn't lead off by giving people a moral evaluation of them at their worst. His "approach" was communication and rescue. To the Samaritan woman at the well, "Let's talk." To the woman caught in adultery, "Neither do I condemn you."

And then later: "Go and sin no more."

He didn't omit a moral judgment of their sin, but neither did He begin His ministry to them by saying "You slut," or "What you do is disgusting," or "Keep it up and you're going to hell."

First he communicated. He demonstrated "I'm here for you." It's not just confronting a sinner with a word of judgment: it's the encounter of a whole person with a whole person. At the right time --- when they were listening --- stronger doses of the truth the saves.

From Him who is the Love that saves.

They knew that. That's why they were listening.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

36 posted on 07/10/2011 2:22:08 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is God our Savior's will that all men be saved, and come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim 2:4)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; SuziQ; CynicalBear

i have come across situations like this in my life and it is very hard. we, in our own flesh and our own ideas will surely not handle it properly and in all likelihood, drive the person away from Christ. what has helped me is to pray that the Father’s will be done and that the Holy Spirit guide me to do the Father’s will. the greatest comfort is to realize God does the saving, all we can do is follow the Holy Spirit as He opens doors for us. i also think about something that is attributed to St Francis ( i think ) “ preach always and sometimes use words” i will be praying for you and please keep me in your prayers.


37 posted on 07/10/2011 2:36:22 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Thank you for these gracious words. And especially your prayers: I-— and the people I’m concerned about -— surely need them and appreicate them. I will pray for you too.


38 posted on 07/10/2011 3:45:19 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is God our Savior's will that all men be saved, and come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim 2:4)
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To: CynicalBear

Oh, the Church does point that out, that’s why they’re in hot water with the homosexuals in Berlin. ;o)


39 posted on 07/10/2011 10:32:28 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; Mrs. Don-o
the statements i quote above were said in front of at least 100 reporters and can only have one purpose, to make the homosexuals and unbelievers think he is not some narrow minded Christian, no he is enlightened, he respects everybody, he is “open” to everyone. let’s pray the man develops a backbone and stops being ashamed of the Gospel.

If the homosexuals of Berlin thought Bishop Woelki was weak and ineffectual, why are they making such a fuss about him? Seems to me they got his message loud and clear, and don't like it one bit.

40 posted on 07/10/2011 10:38:11 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

they meant to intimidate him and based on his comments at the press conf, it seems to have worked.


41 posted on 07/11/2011 5:40:11 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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