Posted on 07/06/2011 12:48:09 PM PDT by NYer
Who the Pope appoints is none of their dang business unless they're practicing Catholics. I guess that since they were so successful in applying "social pressure" to nearly annihilate the Lutheran Church in Germany they think the same sorts of public whining will be successful against the Catholic Church. The fact is that queers who demand that the Church change don't worship Christ but a creation of their own understanding and imagination. Otherwise they would recognize that man cannot dictate terms to Christ and demand entry into His Church with their "Great Gland Prostate" banner held high and their public sin ignored.
It's long past time for "too conservative", it's time to be very clear and downright demanding. Spell out exactly how heavy the cross we have to bear is and let everyone know that if you can't hack it, don't bother pretending you're a part of His Church. Anyone who accepts the burden will soon be shocked at how much Christ opens their eyes and eases their burdens, but that realization only comes after you adjust to the weight of the cross you have to carry in order to earnestly follow Christ.
Seriously, all the churches it seems to me are heading down the politically correct path. Very few church leaders today dare to stand unashamed and declare a sin a sin.
Oh, and don't let the pain get to ya. We'll disagree again soon. LOL
i think you and i will also agree that Church leaders should heed Paul in 2 Timothy 4:2-3
Preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings...
so yes, we will lock horns again i am sure, but at least we both have our eyes wide open about the falling away we are witnessing occur at lightning speed. it is very painful to witness. God bless you.
OK. So, we're critiquing the few lines quoted by a Reuters news blog for being incomplete? ---of course, they're incomplete,there's a selection process going on here which is under Reuters' control, not Woelki's.
This is so elementary.
It reminds me of just a few days ago, when certain FReepers who shall remain nameless, fell for a blog post that said the Southern Baptist Convention approved of gay marriage.
Because Richard Land (SBC) said God approved of sexual relations in marriage!
And I had to jump into the thread and defend the Southern Baptist Convention--- on a point that should have been obvious to a competently-educated middle-schooler!
Now you've got somebody saying Bishop Woelki would approve of gays having sexual relations with each other, if that would help them "find happiness in life"?!
Slander. Rash judgment. Silly-on-stilts. Do our critical faculties turn into Play Doh in the hands of a Reuters blog writer?
Note to you, and to me, too: always ask Cui bono? And Sez who?
This is what the archbishop was referring to and happiness as a final end has a history as long as the Church.
Please try to understand something before ridiculing it. The only way you can do that is to read it.
well, if you feel the man was edited why don’t you provide the quotes where he proclaimed the need for Faith in Christ or the reality of sin, including homosexual acts?
no, i am reading the words of a weak man who is looking to gain approval from the left and unbelievers by saying he just wants “hapiness” for everyone.
you misquote me, i didn’t he would approve of homosexual acts, i merely took his weasely words and asked if they included homosexual acts if that’s what made the homosexuals “happy”
is it too much to ask to have a bishop not be ashamed of the Gospel? to have a bishop declare the Word of God in it’s entirety and without compromise?
he had the perfect opportunity with 100 members of the press there and what did he do? he basically said to the left and the homosexual community “don’t worry about me, i will not proclaim Christ to you, i want you to be happy”
i repeat, is it too much to ask to have a bishop who is not ashamed of the Gospel?
oh, ok, i am sure the homosexuals took his words to mean this.
no my friend, he was signalling the homosexuals have nothing to fear from him, he accepts everyone and he just wants them to be happy. isn’t gay another word for happy?
Wow, that verse touched my spirit. You and I stand shoulder to shoulder on that one. Amen in that the church leaders need to heed those words. I truly fear that it may come down to “where two or three are gathered in my name” rather then the organized religions we have known and grown up in. We truly will need to keep our eyes wide open and on our knees in prayer.
God bless you
It looks to me like some are projecting what they hope or wish he was saying rather then listening to his words.
your two or three are gathered in my name comment reminds me of what Jesus said in Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
we both need to comfort ourselves with the knowledge that God is in charge and in Romans 8:28 Paul says that all things work out together for good to those who love God.
"Woelki’s ...statements reaffirming the Church view that homosexual acts are sinful sparked off a storm in Berlin."
I appreciate, too, the opportunity to see where you're coming from.
Thanks again, and it's my bedtime, so Good Night to you, CynicalBear.
“i am open to all without reservation”
“i have respect and esteem for all people”
“ the Church would like to help all people find their hapiness in life”
i am coming from preaching Jesus to the lost, not making sinners “happy” with their sin. some seem to be fine with bishops being ashamed of the Gospel and wishing to be thought of well by men.
BTW - woelki’s statements reaffirming homosexual acts are sinful were not said at the press conference. the statements i quote above were said in front of at least 100 reporters and can only have one purpose, to make the homosexuals and unbelievers think he is not some narrow minded Christian, no he is enlightened, he respects everybody, he is “open” to everyone.
let’s pray the man develops a backbone and stops being ashamed of the Gospel.
As my dear departed Mama used to say, "You can catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar".
If you want folks to HEAR the Word of God, you have to be sure they are listening to you.
Pointing out that scripture clearly states that sodomy is a sin is not condemnation. If the church or any one of us are unafraid to point out that sodomy is an abomination to God we fall flat. The so called Christian gay community is NOT admitting that they need to not be involved in the gay lifestyle but are looking for acceptance of it.
I have become concerned about one person I care about, a highly vulnerable young adult who calls himself "gay" but as far as I know has never had sexual contact with anyone, male or female. (Not that I'm surveilling him nor plying him with intimate questions; I've only observed -- and heard from him --- that he's quite a lonely as well as a stay-at-home type: no lover, no bars, no prowling about public places etc.)
His main problem in fact seems to be personal isolation, plus confusion. For instance, he sees Lady Gaga as a "compassionate" person, since she "reaches out" to people who are "different." Now, I have a fundamentally "different" view of Lady Gaga (!), but I must say that --- in her perverted as well as crassly self-promoting and money-making way --- she is appealing successfully to young confused people.
How successfully? Well, just her "official-version" youtube video of "Born This Way" has had 66 million viewers. And that's just one of hundreds of versions that are out there.
My thought is not that I want to "reach out like Lady Gaga does," but to "teach as Jesus did." He didn't lead off by giving people a moral evaluation of them at their worst. His "approach" was communication and rescue. To the Samaritan woman at the well, "Let's talk." To the woman caught in adultery, "Neither do I condemn you."
And then later: "Go and sin no more."
He didn't omit a moral judgment of their sin, but neither did He begin His ministry to them by saying "You slut," or "What you do is disgusting," or "Keep it up and you're going to hell."
First he communicated. He demonstrated "I'm here for you." It's not just confronting a sinner with a word of judgment: it's the encounter of a whole person with a whole person. At the right time --- when they were listening --- stronger doses of the truth the saves.
From Him who is the Love that saves.
They knew that. That's why they were listening.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
i have come across situations like this in my life and it is very hard. we, in our own flesh and our own ideas will surely not handle it properly and in all likelihood, drive the person away from Christ. what has helped me is to pray that the Father’s will be done and that the Holy Spirit guide me to do the Father’s will. the greatest comfort is to realize God does the saving, all we can do is follow the Holy Spirit as He opens doors for us. i also think about something that is attributed to St Francis ( i think ) “ preach always and sometimes use words” i will be praying for you and please keep me in your prayers.
Thank you for these gracious words. And especially your prayers: I-— and the people I’m concerned about -— surely need them and appreicate them. I will pray for you too.
Oh, the Church does point that out, that’s why they’re in hot water with the homosexuals in Berlin. ;o)
If the homosexuals of Berlin thought Bishop Woelki was weak and ineffectual, why are they making such a fuss about him? Seems to me they got his message loud and clear, and don't like it one bit.
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