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Michele Bachmann Should Not 'Get a Pass' on Past Membership in Anti-Catholic Church
Catholic Online ^ | 7/15/11 | Keith A Fournier

Posted on 07/15/2011 5:01:33 AM PDT by tcg

....some of my colleagues in the world of Catholic media, journalism and the Press have attributed the positions of this Church and Bachmanns past membership to just "being a Protestant." As someone who has worked ecumenically for decades I reject that dismissal. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod does not represent many Protestants. It is an Anti-Catholic body.

....I have worked with, prayed with and collaborated with MANY Protestant Christians, for over three decades, who would NEVER call the successor of Peter the Antichrist. The colleagues to which I refer go further, they seemingly accept the notion that if Protestant Christians felt otherwise they would no longer be Protestant. That is not only overly simplistic, it fails to recognize the substantial issues which divide the broken Body of Christ.

....Some of the other articles I have read ...attempt to dismiss it by pointing to the authors purported political leanings. So, let me speak to that for a moment. I have political leanings. I like Michele Bachmann's positions on the issues which matter most to this Catholic voter. She is pro-Life and defends marriage and the family and society founded upon it.

I appreciate her pledge to reign in the ever expanding size of the Federal government, which I fear threatens the principle of subsidiarity. Finally, I had been impressed with her intelligence, her oratorical skills, her background and her presence. All of this made her my second favorite possible candidate, until now. My first choice is obvious to anyone who reads my ongoing political commentary.

However, her political and policy positions were not the point of Joshua Green's article and focusing upon them may be a form of deflection. Green raised the issue of Michele Bachmann's long standing identification with a Church body which is clearly Anti-Catholic....

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: anticatholicism; antichrist; bachmann4obama; bachmann4romney; campaign2012; catholic; catholicism; lutheran; michelebachmann; obama; papacy; pope; romancatholicism; wels
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One question is of special concern to me. Will she get a pass? During the last election, a very serious question was raised by people who did not support the candidacy of now President Barack Obama and questioned his membership in a Church body which espoused Anti-Americanism. Some still bring it up.

Will some of those same people ask this candidate, whom they seem to agree with on issues, about her affiliation with a Church which espoused Anti-Catholicism? For example, how will Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly, just to name two high profile media personalities, handle this disturbing fact out of Michele Bachmann's very recent past? I hope the answer is "straight on". ...

1 posted on 07/15/2011 5:01:43 AM PDT by tcg
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To: tcg
You are probably just fine with good Roman Catholics like Nancy Pelosi, though.

As someone who was beat up by Catholic kids for walking past their church and school to get to my Lutheran Church, back in the 50s, and then told that their priest said it was justified, I find your comments pathetic.

2 posted on 07/15/2011 5:08:19 AM PDT by Redleg Duke ("Madison, Wisconsin is 30 square miles surrounded by reality.", L. S. Dryfus)
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To: tcg

“One question is of special concern to me. Will she get a pass?”

Will Romney? And along those lines, why does Pelosi get a pass from Catholics on abortion? Did she inherit Ted Kennedy’s?


3 posted on 07/15/2011 5:08:59 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: tcg

A sure way to get my eyes to glaze over is to put the word “anti-Catholic” in a story.

Luther was not shy about his views on the matter. It’s not at all surprising that a Lutheran body today would continue this tradition. But what does that matter? The problem with Jeremiah Wright’s church was its *political* views more than its theological ones. Anti-Americanism is a *political* position that you better believe affects the Chief Executive’s policy.

What would a President Bachmann do with this alleged “anti-Catholicism”, eh? Break ties with the Vatican? Sic the Justice Department on the dioceses?

Sorry, I just don’t get the point of Fournier’s argument here.


4 posted on 07/15/2011 5:09:17 AM PDT by Claud
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To: tcg
Well given who my Catholic in-laws always vote for, the most liberal democrat candidates on the ballot, I think you are fishing in the dead sea.
5 posted on 07/15/2011 5:11:30 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Claud

The left is desperately seeking a means of driving a wedge between Catholics and Protestants. I grew up Methodist in a family mixed with Baptists and Catholics.

I guess those differences never really meant anything to me.


6 posted on 07/15/2011 5:13:48 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: tcg
The purpose of Green's article is to stir up trouble. It may also be pointed out that the Catholic church's official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell. Green could have pointed out that fact but he obviously was more interested in creating strife between Catholics and Protestants and in creating trouble for Bachmann.

We have all lived in harmony in spite of these differences and we need to consider the motive of this author and not react in a way that causes division. We all disagree on these points but are still allies.

7 posted on 07/15/2011 5:15:31 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: tcg

Obama got a pass for his anti-american church.


8 posted on 07/15/2011 5:15:34 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: tcg

Think I'll steer clear of this war.

9 posted on 07/15/2011 5:16:28 AM PDT by McGruff (Don't go wobbly on me now GOP leadership)
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To: tcg

Perhaps you should spend your time worrying about the country and who is running it.

If Obama stays in, you will be kneeling on your prayer rug facing Mecca, or die.


10 posted on 07/15/2011 5:16:45 AM PDT by dforest
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To: tcg

stopped listening to Hannity when he shilled for Rudy Guilliani back in 08...

O’Reilly is just a moron and I do not know what his real politics are.

as far as Bachmann? who cares what religious group she use to belong to...

Most Southern Baptists and other bible belt churches have defamed Catholics over the 6+ decades I have been alive...I would vote for a member of one of these if they held American values.

on the other hand I would really have to search my soul to vote for a Mormon (you listening, ‘Mittens’?)


11 posted on 07/15/2011 5:20:04 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Charles Henrickson

As the Lutheran (LCMS) of closest affiliation I know to Ms. Bachmann’s synod (WELS) can you shed light on whether this brouhaha about calling Roman Popes “the Antichrist” has any basis in contemporary devout Lutheran congregations? AFAIK, this was a position popular among many evangelical congregations of past centuries (not just Lutherans), but with the contemporary trend of the Roman church backing out of the role of playing the machine in secular governments and becoming less strident towards Christian congregations of other denominations, few evangelicals take this literal view seriously.


12 posted on 07/15/2011 5:20:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Redleg Duke; Psalm 144

Pelosi’s political views are disgusting, and she should be publicly excoriated for them if not excommunicated.

But to return to the original topic, it’s like some of my fellow Catholics all of a sudden woke up and found out that the Reformation happened.....”oh no....people are (gasp) anti-Catholic! They believe the Pope is the Antichrist!!!”

Uh, where the blazes have some of you been for the last 500 years? Do you not also realize that we Catholics are, by definition, anti-Protestant? Do you not know how many Catholic prelates have felt free to speculate on Luther, Calvin, Cranmer et al. in the bowels of hell?

If people are going to be so thin-skinned, let the grownups do the theological disputation.

People are getting their heads cut off for being Catholics in the Middle East. And Americans get all bent out of shape about a politician attending a church where Lutherans believe what Luther believed. Sheesh.


13 posted on 07/15/2011 5:20:25 AM PDT by Claud
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To: cripplecreek

“The left is desperately seeking a means of driving a wedge between Catholics and Protestants.”

The whole point of the navel gazing article.


14 posted on 07/15/2011 5:20:45 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Voodoo Republicans: Don't read their lips - watch their hands.)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
the Catholic church's official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell

Where did you get that from?

15 posted on 07/15/2011 5:21:42 AM PDT by mware
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To: McGruff
Think I'll steer clear of this war.

Your cartoon encompasses most of the religious discussion on FR.
16 posted on 07/15/2011 5:24:04 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: tcg

Name one person who has apologized to the Catholic Church.


17 posted on 07/15/2011 5:24:22 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper ("Don't Call My Bluff")
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To: Redleg Duke

Ahhh... must be getting closer to election season. The Republicans are beginning to eat their own.


18 posted on 07/15/2011 5:24:31 AM PDT by Pravious
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To: tcg; All

Obama won the election in spite of his affiliation with
Jeremiah Wright.

Simply using that fact as a blunt instrument will suffice. Why? Most
Of the American public won’t discern between what Wright was preaching and what Bachmann’s pastor is preaching.

The fact that FReepers are smarter than the average citizen sometimes
causes us to think too much sometimes.

My take? Focus on what unities Christians: J E S U S.

It’s ok to debate this, but don’t let the enemy divide us over it.


19 posted on 07/15/2011 5:25:13 AM PDT by TheRobb7 (Folding@home.....Google it, then join the healing.)
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To: cripplecreek

Unfortunately this is not the left...this is a (conservative?) Catholic deacon I think. Proving once again we are our own worst enemies.

Tell me Deacon Fournier or anyone else, what the heck will Michele Bachmann do as President that will have ANYTHING to do with what her position is on the nature of the Antichrist?

Anyone? Anyone?


20 posted on 07/15/2011 5:25:17 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud

I’m not playing.


21 posted on 07/15/2011 5:26:23 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: tcg
If "anti-catholic" means opposition to self-serving church tradition, Mary worship, "celebate" priests, etc., then I'm anti-catholic as well.

Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." The Catholic Church is not interested in freedom or truth. It is interested in control.

And here's a picture of John Paul II kissing the Qu'ran.


22 posted on 07/15/2011 5:26:26 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Buy Gold and Guns Now!)
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To: mware

“the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell”

“Where did you get that from?”

Probably from the same place that says if you are not “born again” you are going to hell.


23 posted on 07/15/2011 5:27:16 AM PDT by LottieDah (If only those who speak so eloquently on behalf of animals would do so on behalf of the unborn.)
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To: tcg

Catholic league just defended her today


24 posted on 07/15/2011 5:28:04 AM PDT by italianquaker (When will Wallace ask obama if he is a flake?)
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To: cripplecreek

Heh heh...you are wiser than I. :)


25 posted on 07/15/2011 5:28:04 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud

Another point is that while Luther begged to differ with the Roman church about popes, he considered many Roman Catholics to be fine Christians. AFAIK most modern Lutherans, even Ms. Bachmann, would be disgusted at persecutions of Roman Catholics in Islam-dominated places that hate anybody who professes to be Christian regardless of the details. She’d be among the first to point up the hypocrisy of Islam wanting “tolerance” for their religion while picking up the sword against any different faith.


26 posted on 07/15/2011 5:29:56 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Pravious

I’m getting real sick of people trashing her.


27 posted on 07/15/2011 5:30:39 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who won’t leave.)
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To: tcg

I’m Catholic. While the “Catholicism is Heresy” crowd around here piss me off at times, I would favor one of them for President over a “Liberation Theology” Catholic.


28 posted on 07/15/2011 5:30:55 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you’ve only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: tcg

IF she exhibits similar anti-Christian behavior/policies—that Barry Soetoro has made manifest— she ought not get a pass.But if the Catholic are to insist she not be given a pass for a membership in her past—then the Catholic ought not be given a pass for their past behavior.I never was Calvinistic enough to confuse the Catholic church with the Beast of Daniels prophecy. I have read Samuel West — On the Right to Rebel and the body of that sermon I can agree with-but his comments about the Roman Church I cannot accept. I was NEVER
a Catholic.But when they are unjustly attacked—when their position can be reconciled to Scripture I will defend them
When I cannot so do — I will Not defend them Until I see
Ms.Bachmann say something to validate this charge-I can only consider it the persecution complex Catholics have borrowed from the Jews they so reviled.


29 posted on 07/15/2011 5:31:25 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: mware

the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell
Where did you get that from?

Uhh..probably from the last 1500 years of catholic church history??? Just a guess, of course.


30 posted on 07/15/2011 5:33:10 AM PDT by Arcy
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To: tcg

So anyone who, in the past, did something disagreeable in their life disqualifies them for office? Hussein had CURRENT membership in a hate mongering church, and no questions were really asked.


31 posted on 07/15/2011 5:34:47 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: tcg

If I understand the article correctly she left that church only about a year ago. Apparently she didn’t publicly condemn the teaching or it would have been in the article. Please correct me if I’m wrong.


32 posted on 07/15/2011 5:35:40 AM PDT by RadiationRomeo (Step into my mind and glimpse the madness that is me)
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To: tcg

Who gives a tinker’s da**?

As long as she doesn’t believe the government should implement her religious beliefs, she can believe whatever she likes and according to her convictions.

It’s called freedom. I like it. I think I’ll keep it.


33 posted on 07/15/2011 5:36:10 AM PDT by cizinec ("Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery.")
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To: mware
Please do not get the idea I want in any way to start a division between Catholics and non-Catholics as my intent is quite the opposite.

Green's only desire was to create that division. I am pointing out that Catholics should not feel as victims in this story as Protestants can be just as offended by the official teachings of the Catholic church. There are differences, if there weren't we would all belong to the exact same church.

" Extraordinary Magisterium ---EX CATHEDRA “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.) “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation nor remission of sin… Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by absolute necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302) “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Council of Florence--Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)" __________________

34 posted on 07/15/2011 5:37:52 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Redleg Duke

I can tell you, Pelosi and all those dissident, unfaithful Catholics most certainly did NOT get a pass from this writer. Check him out. He has consistently exposed, opposed and confronted them with his pen...while praying for their conversion and return to the truth.Sorry you had a bad childhood. that’s not the issue.


35 posted on 07/15/2011 5:38:16 AM PDT by tcg (TCG)
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To: tcg

I was raised in the Catholic Church. Suffice to say that Bachmann treated the children under her control better than the Catholic Church treated myself and others. While I don’t go out of my way to bash the church I have no problem if others do.


36 posted on 07/15/2011 5:38:39 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (Sharia? No thanks.)
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To: Claud

I agree with Claud.


37 posted on 07/15/2011 5:39:20 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: PapaBear3625

Ya know, if “Rev. Wright” of “God Damn America” fame (not the Westburros, now, but the one whose sermons Barack Obama allegedly slept through for 20 years) had given up that kind of preaching before Barack Obama ever met him and he was now your common plain chocolate black preacher, his past preaching wouldn’t have even been a footnote in history.


38 posted on 07/15/2011 5:39:55 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: mware

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=315887

see: Malia Belen post and quotes


39 posted on 07/15/2011 5:40:05 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: tcg

It just doesn’t matter. The very fraudulant idea that there is a line of succession of popes going back to Peter is repugnant to reality and simply phony according to the catholic encyclopedia and church records.


40 posted on 07/15/2011 5:41:45 AM PDT by TPOOH (I wish I could have been Jerry Reed.)
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To: tcg

We (Roman Catholics..NOT CINO’s) and our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ whether they are Baptists, Methodist, Lutherans, or Presbyterians, may have many differences in scripture.

However, we have way too much in common with our joint views on Pro-Life, Pro Family(homo agenda),anti-liberation Theology creeping into our leadership, government interference disguised as Economic Justice and other issues that makes us natural allies.

IMHO, I’ll lock arms in protest over ending ‘reproductive rights’ or pray with a good Southern Baptist ANY-DAY over a self righteous CINO.


41 posted on 07/15/2011 5:42:43 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: tcg

This is just an attempt to divide and conquer. I believe Bachmann has already been questioned about this, anyway, and has said that she regards Catholics as Christians, so obviously she doesn’t agree with her (I believe former) church on this.

And if she has been active in pro-life and pro-adoption matters, she’s probably had a lot of contact with Catholics.

Of course, any Catholic who has seen the anti-Catholic ravings by various Protestants on FR is pretty immune to them; we’re tough!

But aside from that, her attitude couldn’t be worse than that of our pro-Muslim, Christian-hating, pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia, pro-Marxism president.


42 posted on 07/15/2011 5:43:04 AM PDT by livius
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To: McGruff
Your childish attempt to categorize theological differences into a cartoon that bares no resemblance to the positions argued is unwarranted and unworthy of real estate it occupies on this board. Your contribution of choice to this thread says more about you than it does about the content of the discussion. Now get back to eating your Cheerios.
43 posted on 07/15/2011 5:43:27 AM PDT by Arcy
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To: tcg

While everyone with thin skin is re-fighting the Reformation, Obama waltz’s to a second term. Don’t fall for this divide and conquer piece.


44 posted on 07/15/2011 5:44:02 AM PDT by gitmogrunt (Divide and Conquer...Divide and Conquer...don't take the bait!!)
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To: tcg

As of those people who was and still is disgusted by Obama’s membership in a hate America church, I don’t understand your comparison — assuming your facts are correct.

Was MB affiliated with this church for 20 years?

Is MB still affiliated with this church?

Has MB admitted to being so stupid that she was affiliated with the church for 20 years but never heard what the preacher said?

If the answer to these questions is “yes”, get back to me.


45 posted on 07/15/2011 5:44:20 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: italianquaker

Yeah, but what do they know?


46 posted on 07/15/2011 5:45:04 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: Lee'sGhost

I can just imagine it -

some leftist in your life will bring this up about MB.
You’ll counter with 0bama’s membership in Wright’s church.

They’ll fail to see the connection.


47 posted on 07/15/2011 5:45:32 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

And so continues the ongoing disagreement whether entrance into the church comprising the saved is through the door of Christ, or whether entrance into Christ is through the ministrations of a body that on earth features sinners of various degrees. All I can say is that the temptation of a church’s declarations to become self serving is immense.


48 posted on 07/15/2011 5:47:40 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Arcy
Your childish attempt to categorize theological differences into a cartoon...

Seems liked I've touched a nerve. What you going to do, declare a Jihad on me?

49 posted on 07/15/2011 5:47:53 AM PDT by McGruff (Don't go wobbly on me now GOP leadership)
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To: PapaBear3625

“Liberation Theology” is not religion, but Communism in a thin religious wrapper.

I saw them up close and personal in NM back in the late 70’s and early 80’s. Was a real education for an old West Texas farm boy, as was living in a mine union town.

Christianity is about freeing people from guilt, fear and corruption of the world. Communism is about lies, deception and subjection. Much like Islam.


50 posted on 07/15/2011 5:48:08 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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