Posted on 08/04/2011 8:36:59 AM PDT by NYer
Um . . . because they’ve decided evolution isn’t so bad after all?
I am protestant, I will never become Catholic. I will work with Catholics, however and have no problem with that. My problem lies in that I would have to trely on the word of a single human beings to be in charge of my faith. Humans are evil creatures from birth and I will never rely on anyone else than God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit to save me.
I guess I don't really see the relevance to Catholicism per se of the opinions of people who can't be bothered to order their life according to the precept "a Catholic is required under pain of grave sin to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation". If you can't do that, in what sense are you really living as a Catholic? And if you aren't living as a Catholic, in what sense, beside the merely juridical, are you a Catholic at all?
Someone whose relationship to the Church (setting aside their relationship to God -- but a Catholic ought not to see their relationships to God and to the Church as separable items) doesn't even rise to spending one hour a week (plus one hour or less on 5 or 6 other days a year) has none of what lawyers call "standing" to associate their opinions with Catholicism as a belief system.
This thread is about pro-lifers who are joining the Catholic Church, not pro-lifers who are associating themselves with people whose connection with the Catholic Church is marked mostly by their own disobedience to it.
Actually, the point of the original "Seamless Garment" idea --- and the first person I heard preach it was Mother Teresa's great friend and promoter Eileen Egan --- was exactly the opposite of what you describe: it was that "respect for life" is unbroken and seamless, i.e. NOT a patchwork quilt where you could gash a huge hole in one square of cloth but patch it with another.
Even "Seamless Garment" as preached by Cardinal Bernardin, back in 1983, similarly was based in a consistiency thing, starting with "You can never intentionally kill any innocent person, born or unborn, period."
The problem came in when the patchwork people (the "pro-choice" liberal Democrat Catholics, prominently Mario Cuomo and his posse) turned the concept upside-down and started saying it's OK to throw the baby to the wolves if you're also antiwar or pro-food-stamp or something.
And Bernardin --- and most other USCCB Bishops ----let them get by with it: they did not confront, challenge and repudiate them.
That was the hell-bent scandal of it all.
I love conversion stories. They remind cradle Catholics about all the wonderful reasons the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of faith.
The story of the man who was visited by Aquinas in a dream, though he’d never heard of him, is especially moving.
The Holy Spirit is still guiding the Church. The faithful will have nothing to fear. I am so deeply grateful that I am Catholic and can continue to discover deeper and deeper beauties of the faith.
My problem lies in that I would have to trely on the word of a single human beings to be in charge of my faith. Humans are evil creatures from birth and I will never rely on anyone else than God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit to save me.
By "single human", I am presuming you are referring to papal authority. Since you share our love for Scripture, let's take a closer look at what it says. Christ stated that the Church, not Scripture should be the final authority: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (Matthew 18:17 ) Christ did not state to refer to or consult Scripture for disputes and correction. He said to go to the Church as It is the final authority in Christianity. In addition, St. Paul states that the Church, not Scripture is "THE pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15) Since the Church alone is mentioned as the pillar of truth, then It alone has the right to discern the truth and interpret Scripture. For if individuals could correctly interpret Scripture, then all interpretations would be exactly the same as there can only be one Spiritual Truth for the plural of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture. The Church is Christ's bride (Ephesians 5:29) and has "no spot, wrinkle or blemish" (Ephesians 5:27). Christ also stated that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18) so how can the Church commit error? Individual clergy may commit sins, even popes commit sins because in the Church there are both "weeds and wheat" (Matthew 13:30).
In its 2000 year history, not one pope has ever erred in matters of faith or morals. That is testimony to the work of the Holy Spirit in safeguarding the Church established by Jesus Christ.
I think I had a fair caveat built into my post. Western Catholicism has its tares, but it has a lot of wheat, too. Non-western Catholicism adheres even more closely to the pro-life position espoused by the Catholic church. I can’t really speak to Orthodoxy, if one is including other strands of catholicism. (I don’t include Anglicanism). I assume the Orthodox are also pro-life, but I don’t know that.
Why are prominent pro-lifers becoming Catholic? Pro-lifers seek the Truth, and “The Truth is Self-Authenticating.”
And as Cardinal Newman so succinctly put it, “To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.”
When you study the history of the pro-life movement, and the legalization of abortion, you realize abortion was legalized because contraception was legalized and culturally accepted.
And contraception was legalized and culturally accepted because in 1930 protestantism changed its historical condemnation of contraception.
There is only one Church which has not caved on contraception, so there is only one Church with a cohesive, TRUTH based approach to all pro-life issues.
Pro-lifers know it, and are flocking to that Church.
The Orthodox are also pro-life, but they have a tendency to not delve into legalese as we Westerners (Catholic and non-Catholic) tend to do at times
Human error:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.brace/1papal.htm
That was just one that I found right away, just for arguments sake. Not one human is free from error, not a single one. This is why I will never place faith in humans. Christs Church is not simply the Catholic Church. If you and I both agree that in Christ alone you can be saved, then we are OK.
Fantastic words from you!
**I will never become Catholic**
Never say “never.”
Abby Johnson’s husband, in a quote in the article said the same thing. Today Doug and Abby Johnson are pro life Catholics.
Perhaps God has other plans for you, ever think of it that way?
The one man, Jesus Christ, is who the Catholic faith is founded on. No problems for billions of Catholics!
Place your faith in the Holy Spirit. All the popes have, and I know for sure Pope Benedict XVI does!
Written by a former num and on a countercult website.....good source there....smiling.
BTW, countercult would mean anti-Catholic.
I think the most important thing is for all those of faith to find the home for faith for their full commitment to an orthodox practice of their commitment to Christ. Some find it in their denomination, other leave the Roman Catholic Church for a Protestant denomination, and other take the reverse route.
All of these options are better than the course we had thirty to fifty years ago where many in all denominations fell away from Christ or choose a church as a social, a cultural or community action vehicle because all of the denominations had fallen away from othodoxy.
Email from 40 Days for Life (which BTW, everybody, was started by Catholics!)
While we’re waiting to announce the BIG NEWS about this
fall’s 40 Days for Life campaign (next week) we wanted
to invite you to attend an important event!
As you know, 40 Days for Life is a POWERFUL way to save
lives in your community. Over just the last four years,
your prayers and participation have contributed to
amazing results around the world:
* 400,000 participants have joined in prayer and
fasting, peaceful vigil, and grassroots outreach
* 1,332 individual campaigns have taken place in 387
cities across all 50 American states and 10 countries
* Reports document 4,313 lives spared from abortion —
and those are just the ones we know about
* 53 abortion workers have quit their jobs and walked
away from the abortion industry
* 14 abortion facilities completely shut down following
local 40 Days for Life campaigns
You're right! And that includes you!
This is why I will never place faith in humans. Christs Church is not simply the Catholic Church.
No one is suggesting you place your faith in a human. On the contrary, our Lord anticipated just such a dilemma and established a Church, entrusting it to Peter and his successors, with the promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. And they have not, though many have tried. More importantly, the Catholic Church acknowledges that Christ is the Head of the Church.
Your fear of human error is justified, however, when it comes to interpreting scripture, the assertion that individuals can correctly interpret Scripture is false. What began as one interpretation, outside the church established by Christ, has now evolved into more than 30,000, all claiming to have the truth. The assertion that individuals can correctly interpret Scripture is false. Even the "founder" of Sola Scriptura (Martin Luther), near the end of his life, was afraid that "any milkmaid who could read" would found a new Christian denomination based on his or her "interpretation" of the Bible. Luther opened a "Pandora's Box" when he insisted that the Bible could be interpreted by individuals and that It is the sole authority of Christianity.
Can there be more than one interpretation of the Bible? No. The word "truth" is used several times in the New Testament. However, the plural version of the word "truth" never appears in Scripture. Therefore, there can only be one Truth. So how can there be over 30,000 non-Catholic Christian denominations (and growing) all claiming to have the "Truth" (i.e., the correct interpretation of the Bible)? For that matter, aren't ALL non-Catholic Christians as individuals claiming "infallibility" when it comes to interpreting the Bible? Catholics only believe in the infallibility of the Papacy as an office. Which is more believable - one office holding infallibility or 400 million non-Catholic Christians who can't agree on the interpretation of Scripture all claiming "infallibility?" When it comes to interpreting Scripture, individual non-Catholic Christians claim the same infallibility as the Papacy. If one were to put two persons of the "same" non-Catholic Christian denomination (i.e., two Presybterians, two Lutherans, two Baptists, etc.) in separate rooms with a Bible and a notepad and ask them to write down their "interpretation" of the Bible, passage for passage, shouldn't they then produce the exact same interpretation? If guided by the Holy Spirit as Scripture states, the answer should be "Yes." But would that really happen? History has shown that the answer is "No." Now, in the case of Catholics, the Church which Christ founded and is with forever (Matthew 28:20) interprets the Bible, as guided by the Holy Spirit, (Mark 13:11) for the "sheep" (the faithful).
Is the Bible to be taken literally - "word for word?" No. The Bible doesn't state anywhere that It should be taken literally. The Bible was written by different authors with different literary styles at different times in history and in different languages. Therefore, the writings should be interpreted with these circumstances in mind. The Bible is a religious book, not a scientific or a history "textbook."
Does the Bible state It is the sole or final authority of Christianity? No. Neither this statement nor anything even close to it appears anywhere in the New Testament. In fact, Christ said that the Church is to resolve disputes among Christians, not Scripture (Matthew 18:17). What did Martin Luther, the Protestant Reformer, state about the Bible? In his "Commentary On St. John," he stated the following: "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we have received It from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of It at all." Regardless of what non-Catholic Christians may think or say, according to secular, objective historians, the Catholic Church alone preserved Sacred Scripture throughout the persecution of the Roman Empire and during the Dark Ages. All non-Catholic Christian denominations owe the existence of the Bible to the Catholic Church alone. Why did God choose the Catholic Church to preserve Scripture if It is not His Church?
To have the Bible as the only and sole authority of Christianity is to invite chaos into His Church. There are at least 5 Protestant denominations created every year based on a different interpretation of the Bible. Theoretically, anyone who owns a Bible can create their own denomination based on their own interpretation of Scripture. Taken to its logical conclusion, chaos is what happens when the doctrine of "Sola Scriptura" is applied. And Christ stated "A tree is recognized by its fruit" (Matthew 12:33) and the doctrine of Sola Scriptura produces "bad fruit" (disunity, confusion and separation).
You are not alone in your concerns! Many christians have had to address this at one time or another. The following article is written by one, like yourself, caught up in how to address "Bible alone" doctrine with fellow christians.
Catholic convert here, after 20 years as a Protestant/ non-denom, etc. — no one tells ME what to believe. It’s me and the Lord all the way, and He would not lead me astray.
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