Posted on 08/10/2011 8:11:57 AM PDT by janereinheimer
having a Christian that is able to read at all is a fairly recent occurrence, for most of the Church’s history, the majority of people were illiterate, just as they were when Jesus walked the earth.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” - Matt 7
“The Church from the time Peter preached on Pentecost, has taught and believed baptism is for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit.”
Odd. Sometimes the Holy Spirit was received prior to baptism.
Further, does Jesus immerse us in water, or the Holy Spirit?
“33I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”
not odd at all. The Holy Spirit was showing Peter the Gospel was for the Gentiles, as well as the Jews.
neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit immerses us in water.
The Scriptures are clear, the Holy Spirit baptizes us thru the Body of Christ, the Church. Jesus breathed on the Apostles to receive the Holy Spirit, the Apostles laid hands on other faithful men to teach and baptize when the Apostles passed, just as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28. The Church has the authority from Jesus Himself, it is the vessel the Holy Spirit uses to bring men into the Kingdom of God. as Ephesians 4 tells us, there is One Baptism.
this is the historical, orthodox Faith, first taught on Pentecost, and taught and believed by Christians for 2,000 years. in the 16th century, a heresy arose that says there are two baptisms, one a so called Spirit baptism and two, a so called water baptism. this new doctrine was unheard of for 16 centuries and absolutely violates Ephesians 4. it also teaches this so called water baptism is done to be obedient to Jesus and for making a public declaration to join a local church...of course no one in the NT was ever told this, so this is just a 16th century tradition of men.
depends by what you mean by “fundamentalist”.
it wasn’t the beginning, but i think it’s fair to say it certainly contributed to the thousands of different sects who sprang to life in the last century or two.
false teachers will arise and lead many astray.....
it wasn’t the beginning, but i think it’s fair to say it certainly contributed to the thousands of different sects who sprang to life in the last century or two.
false teachers will arise and lead many astray.....
Is the baptism of Jesus, according to the scriptures, one of water or spirit?
Which makes one a Christian? If water, why are so many baptized who reject Jesus as Lord? And why does John the Baptist say Jesus will baptize (immerse) us with the Holy Spirit?
Does the Spirit give life, or water?
While we are at it, who are the priests in the New Testament?
“2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vainif indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.” - Gal 3
Here is the passage in Ephesians:
“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body and one Spiritjust as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”
One body - physical or spiritual?
One spirit - physical or spiritual?
One hope - physical or spiritual?
One Lord - physical or spiritual?
One faith - physical or spiritual?
One baptism - physical or spiritual?
One God - physical or spiritual?
Of the seven ones, it is painfully obvious that 6 are spiritual. So why do you pluck out baptism to make it physical? Particularly when the baptism of Jesus is with the Holy Spirit - per John the Baptist...
You and I are the Church so lets reason together. May the Holy Spirit be involved n the conversation so that we sharpen and not batter each other :-)
Are you of the belief then that Scripture says that salvation is granted by works + Faith or Faith alone?
I read and understand Scripture to say that Christ alone is worthy to offer us Salvation and that we are saved by Grace through Faith. I see nowhere in scripture baptism taking our sins or giving us the Holy Spirit, but I see many examples of people getting the Holy spirit before Baptism and Jesus dying for our sins, not baptism.
Thoughts?
I agree.
Did I post something about getting Baptized to be obedient to the Lord? Only thing I’d want to clarify is what are your views on the One Baptism? Water or Spirit?
Ooops- I should clarify in reading this thread a little closer- By Baptism I mean the public event of Baptism with water. Not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I’d also like to ask what your definition of the Church is. Is it the Roman Catholic Church or is it all who Believe Christ to be Lord and act accordingly ( Ie- taking the great commission, believing all the tenants of the Nicene Creed) , etc....
Cool, thanks! I remembered an aspect of the definition, but not the definition itelf, and I totally forgot the word. This getting old thing is rough. I don’t recommend it.
I totally agree. But to us frail sinners anything can be an idol and a snare, even humility. “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
My Pleasure, FRiend!
I love the fact that the NT is in Greek, as the meanings are very precise and expressive.
Of course, Jesus and His Disciples probably spoke Aramaic and Hebrew.
That would render Luke 10:18 (”I saw satan fall from heaven like lightening from the high places”) into:
“I saw satan fall from heaven like barahk o’ bahma.”
Just sayin” LOL.
Snort! LOL
double snort! hahahaha
Then ,of course, there is the “Obamanation that makes Desolation”
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