Posted on 09/17/2011 10:09:58 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
LOL And the bodily assumption is in which passage from scripture exactly?
Pardon?
I am quoting the very WORDS of Christ HIMSELF. Matthew 24:21 (Christ answering the question from Matthew 24:3) quotes Daniel... For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
CHRIST SPEAKING 22 AND except those days (of Daniel) be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days (of Daniel) shall be shortened.
Who is denying the Scripture? The 'church' is NOT going any place, because here on God's green earth is where Christ promised He would return and set up His Kingdom.
The Redeemer expects the Church to be kindling a fire and be ready for Ephesians 6. Do you even know who the anti-Christ is and why God is allowing him his few moons to play Jesus?
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have not hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)
That is a passage of Scripture which describes Jesus Christ coming to take His Church off the earth.
Is it true or is it false?
AMEN, GN. THere is no “revival” that is going to be here in the last days of the Church the body of Christ. There is APOSTACY. As was very clearly stated to Timothy. If people are looking for some great revival to take place, they are looking the wrong way. And will be deceived. As is happening daily.
BUT the first supernatural being tossed down here upon us is NOT our LORD and Saviour but the great pretender to deceive all but the elect that he is Jesus. ONE of his lies is he has come to ‘rapture’ out IF they believe upon him.
Check out that word Paul uses ‘air’. Soul means ‘breath of life’ as in ‘air’, a different dimension not held by gravity.
Yes, Christ did say He would return and set up His Kingdom. And He will. In JERUSALEM. Where Israel will be a Kingdom of priests and a blessing to the Gentile nations. Now either you are Jewish and expect to endure to the end, to become a priest in the Kingdom on Earth. Or you are a member of the Church the Body of Christ, who has its promises in the HEAVENLIES. Which is exactly where Christ will take us when He returns to meet us in the air at the rapture of the Body of Christ. Or you are completely lost and will neither be raptured, nor a Jewish priest in His kingdom. Which leaves you pretty much...no place to go.
Oops. That was supposed to be the bodily assumption of Mary.
I will NOT be raptured. It is NOT a doctrine of Christ, but people who seek a short cut in fear of a tribulation. Christ does not utter one Word of a quick trip out of here. IF people knew what the tribulation is they would NOT be hoping for rapture.
Oh, FYI, Paul did write the book of Hebrews.
He is alive and well, and deceiving the world at this time. And will be until the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.
Got it.
The Church, with the authority given to it by Christ in Scripture, has issued an opinion (based upon the earliest belief of the Church) that the Blessed Virgin Mary has been assumed into Heaven in the manner of Elijah and Enoch. This is not doctrine; it is an opinion, based upon Tradition and reason.
It is not required as a belief, nor is it considered as a requirement for salvation. The Orthodox have a lessened view of this, for instance, and they are as fully Catholic as I am, if not more.
Scripture for proof, please?
You're wrong, and here is proof:
snip
The " last trumpet" of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is singular, referring to one judgment, not a sequence of seven. Ellicott notes, " There are no sufficient grounds for supposing that there is here any reference to the seventh Apocalyptic trumpet (Rev. xi. 15), or to the seventh and last trumpet." [4] Henry Thiessen agrees:
"If he had thought of this trumpet as one of seven, he would undoubtedly have said something like the following: " For when the trumpets will be sounded and the time comes for the last one to sound, the dead in Christ shall be raised." At any rate, there is no ground for identifying the " trump" in 1 Cor. 15:52 with the seventh trumpet in Rev. 11:15. Those in the Revelation introduce fearful judgments upon the world and mankind; this one calls the dead in Christ out of their graves and summons both the ones raised and the believers still living into the Lord' s presence."[5]
If the seventh trumpet in Revelation and the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 are supposed to be a reference to the same thing, then why are there many more months of judgment that follow the supposed last trumpet in Revelation 11. The view that equates the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 with the seventh trumpet of Revelation does not harmonize in any way.
1 Corinthians 15:52
The context of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is very different than the context of Revelation 11:15. 1 Corinthians 15:52 better harmonizes with 1 Thessalonians 4:16, which says, " For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first." Both passages speak of the rapture and judgment is absent from both. The trumpet in both are the last or final command that the Lord gives to the church, resulting in the translation of all Believers. Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost cites the following reasons as to why the " last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is different from any of the trumpet judgments in Revelation.
"There seem to be a number of observations which make it impossible for one to identify these two trumps. (1) The trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52, . . . sounds before the wrath of God descends, while, . . . the chronology or Revelation indicates that the trumpet in Revelation 11:15 sounds at the end of the time of wrath. . . . (2) The trumpet that summons the church is called the trump of God, while the seventh trump is an angel' s trumpet. . . . (3) The trumpet for the church is singular. No trumpets have preceded it so that it can not be said to be the last of a series. The trumpet that closes the tribulation period is clearly the last of a series of seven. (4) In 1 Thessalonians 4 the voice associated with the sounding of the trumpet summons the dead and the living and consequently is heard before the resurrection. In the Revelation, while a resurrection is mentioned (11:12), the trumpet does not sound until after the resurrection, showing us that two different events must be in view. (5) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians issues in blessing, in life, in glory, while the trumpet in Revelation issues in judgment upon the enemies of God. (6) In the Thessalonian passage the trumpet sounds " in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." In Revelation 10:7 the indication is that the seventh trumpet shall sound over a continued period of time, probably for the duration of the judgments that fall under it, for John speaks of the angel that shall " begin to sound." . . . (7) The trumpet in 1 Thessalonians is distinctly for the church. Since God is dealing with Israel in particular, and Gentiles in general, in the tribulation, this seventh trumpet, which falls in the period of the tribulation, could not have reference to the church without losing the distinctions between the church and Israel. (8) The passage in Revelation depicts a great earthquake in which thousands are slain, and the believing remnant that worships God is stricken with fear. In the Thessalonian passage there is no earth quake mentioned. . . . (9) While the church will be rewarded at the time of the rapture, yet the reward given to " thy servants the prophets, and to the saints" can not be that event. The rewarding mentioned in Revelation 11:18 is seen to take place on the earth after the second advent of Christ, following the judgment on His enemies. Since the church is rewarded in the air, following the rapture, these must be two distinct events."[6]
Conclusion
The last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is the final command that Christ provides for His church when He sends the signal to gather us together for the meeting in the sky that we know as the rapture. The contexts of 1 Corinthians 15:52 and that of Revelation 11 are totally different from one another. About the only similarity between the two is that the word " trumpet" is used in both. (Actually the word " trumpet" is not even used in Revelation 11:15- 19. The text actually says, " the seventh angel sounded" (11:15), clearly implying that a trumpet is sounded as noted in Revelation 8:2). The respective contexts are totally different. In 1 Corinthians 15:52, there is the context of things related to the church age, while Revelation 11 speaks of judgment during the tribulation. No such silver bullet argument exists for posttribulationism since I believe that it is clear that the New Testament does not teach such a view. Maranatha!
You have to deny Scripture to believe that the earth will be present on earth during the Tribulation.
And as is apparent from your posts, you have no qualms whatsoever about stating that what God said is false.
Apostasy on steroids.
Now, this is interesting. What is the tribulation, in your opinion?
His spirit is 'here', but literally, he is still being held by Michael 'behind' Christ until he gets tossed down here upon us pretending he is Jesus. I cannot help it if you have not READ.
***(As an aside, having run temporarily through serious stuff, I’m finally reading the first Left Behind novel. The prose ranges from pedestrian to dire. I read the first page and thought “It was a dark and stormy night...” )***
LOL. I too, worked my way through the 1st book. Page after page of theological error...
The rapture doctrine is the Apostay or falling away when the grand pretender gets dumped down here and the many swoon and bend a knee to him thinking, saying, why he looks and talks just like Jesus.
WANT proof, what did the devil tempt Christ with in Matthew 4:1-11 You really think Christ was the least bit tempted, not a chance, but He showed us what the tribulation was going to be, as this has never happened before in this flesh age.
Christ showed us by that 'temptation of the devil', Matthew 4 and Luke 4... the devil twisted the scripture in a vain attempt to get Christ to bend His knee to the devil. Most people do not know who shows up first.
If you can't produce the Scripture to support your belief, then your belief is a false doctrine and your failure to produce the Scripture to support your belief explains your need to deny the words of God.
Again, apostasy on steroids.
..so you’re saying that the tribulation is 7 years of the devil twisting scripture to get people to bend their knee to him? Twisting scripture is the tribulation?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.