Posted on 09/17/2011 3:16:55 PM PDT by NYer
I know this from a family member who is in AA.
My relative had a friendship with a pastor who ministered to substance abuse people in the hospital who were dying from the damage they had done to their bodies via their alcoholism.
Lots of times this meant being around the hospital at odd times, being around at night. He relayed to my relative that he always knew when someone died because he could see lights descending down to the hospital and then departing shortly afterwards. One AA guy I knew who was on the rebound (we thought) getting better, died unexpectedly, and this pastor was on his way over that night and he saw the lights while driving up and was hoping it wasn’t our friend, but he said he knew it was.
This is a fascinating subject. While I don’t have my own personal NDE story, I do have a few stories of people in my life who’ve had experiences.
About 10 years ago, my (then) mother-in-law died at the hospital, and her husband was by her side. At the very moment she died, he said he felt a calming, reassuring presence flow through him and a voice tell him “Don’t worry, we have her.”, as if the Sweet Chariot swung low to pick her up. I was there (but not in the same room) when it happened and he told us this less than a half hour after the fact. I don’t doubt him as he is not the kind of person who would ever make something like that up.
Earlier this year, my sister attempted suicide by OD and almost succeeded. She was told she “died” on the way to the hospital and was brought back. She spend a day and a half in a coma and said that she never saw a light, or heard or felt anything - just blackness. Really creeped me out.
Similarly, Christ Himself told Thomas, "Blessed are those who have not seen, and still believe." I don't think that was a condemnation of Thomas. I don't think those who claim to have experienced NDEs had necessarily set out to experience them. I think I can assert with a fair degree of confidence that God reveals the true nature of reality (temporal and otherwise) to each of us uniquely, individually and personally. I don't think there's anything wrong with us sharing our individual experiences with one another, and in fact, many of the great Christian Mystics are reknowned for having done so.
I think the danger potentially comes from those who purport to have some special, esoteric knowledge who do not, and/or those who grasp onto the individual revelations to another as a comprehensive, holistic view.
It's kind of like the tale of the five blind men and the elephant. God may reveal the "tail" to one person, who, for where he is at, and what he is holding, is a totally adequate revelation...yet when he tells others that an elephant is like a rope, and others take that as "gospel" (so to speak) one individual's experience becomes a distortion of the overall reality.
I look at NDEs much like that. Certainly, I believe these people have had some type of profound experience, and for the most part, they tend to corroborate my faith-based beliefs and understandings of the afterlife. Yet, I never lose sight of the fact that they remain highly personal and unique experiences to each individual.
Before my dad died he no longer acted like he knew any of us were in his room- but he seemed to be talking to people he knew well that had already died- including his favorite sister.
A friend of ours had a massive heart attack and had to be revived by ER team- she said she was up in the corner of the wall and ceiling watching the whole thing, then went back into her body and woke up in horrific pain.
My mother saw nature that she couldn’t see- she was inside the hospital with window covered and talked about seeing deer, butterflies- was different.
To me the accounts I have read and people I have talked to lead me to believe that NDE’s are neither proof nor evidence of life after death. Those who accept them fail to account for the cultural variations in the reports. The Indian reports of NDE’s report a bureaucrat telling the “decedent” there has been a mistake in the paperwork and he must return. That is quite different from the being of “light” that many Westerners report. Then there are people who report they experienced NOTHING. Just black NOTHING!
If you have ever read descriptions of Hell, you would find that not everyone experiences the exact same things there. Not everyone has the same punishments, it is determined by what they’ve done while in the body.
So there are some people who account for Hell that actually saw ‘the pit’ as it is described, and felt heat, pain, etc. But Hell is also described for some as being cast into ‘outer darkness’.
So an Indian’s description of what they experienced as ‘blackness’ could very well be what awaits him there.
After all Hell is eternal separation from God. There are varying degrees of that separation, and we know there are varying degrees of punishment that people have earned for themselves that they now will be paying for, as they decided not to believe that Jesus loved them and had already paid for their sins.
I know a man in his eighties that had one of these when he was about eight.
As did I at 10.
Not likely... because God is in Hell.. He is omnipresent
That is the most bizarre comment I have ever read.
I have experience myself. I am not sure if I died or not. I was a child and my first experience was I was asleep and the next thing I remember being lifted up toward the ceiling. As I got close to the ceiling I felt a cold rush of wind. Hearing this wind frighten me. For some odd reason, I knew I would be going thru thee ceiling and I had acknowledge that I left my body back in bed. So I cried out to Jesus and the next thing I felt I was slammed back down. That my eyes opened fast and suddenly with me staring at the ceiling.
Another occasion again I was asleep. I found myself walking around the house but the weird thing the lights were off but I could see where I am going. Again I knew it was 1 am and I knew another part of me was in bed and my parents in their room. Yet I was enjoying myself like a playful child because I found myself walking thru the walls.
My father had a heart attack and he told us of him leaving his body and he saw the doctors working on him. He then began to be lifted up further only to see Jesus glowing in ray of gold brightness. He then was able to hear the nurses calling out for him, and that is when he was slammed back into his body.
My mother was beautiful also. She told of her leaving her body and she came to an area of complete darkness. She said she was afraid of making a step forward for fear of falling. So she prayed “Though I walk thru the Valley of Shadow of Death, I shall not fear for thine is with me” she kept repeating that until she looked up and she saw a pinpoint light and it got brighter and brighter. She then finally arrived into the light and saw Jesus. She told me that there were children surrounding him some as 13 and younger like 1 month old. The older children were playing around him and the babies would fly and sit on his shoulder and get off. The babies were taking turns sitting on his shoulders. Some were playing that a few were tugging on his white robe. So then Jesus called her name and asked her to look at him, but she refused. Again he called her out and asked to look at him. Again she refused. He then asked her why doesn’t she want to look at him, she reponded because she is not worthy. He told her why does she feel like that. My mother told him because she was full of demons and she was going to Hell. He then asked her who told her , but again my mother refused. He then said “O I know don’t worry I will take care of that person. You are not full of demons”. He then told her “Look see that door, you can go in and not return and be with me or you can simply return”. My mother thought about us and she asked that she wanted to return. He told her ok but to remember that the door will always be open for her. He then told little girl about the age of 12 to guide my mother back into her body. He also told the little girl whatever my mother wanted to listen and give her what she wants. My mother asked about my brother and me, and the little girl showed my brother and me but in the future I suppose. I am grateful that God allow to let me have my mother for another 10 years until she passed in 1997 as well as for my father who passed in 2005. I miss them very much but I know where they are.
So that was my experience
And the mind is the OS. But man must be born again through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus, and get a new OS.
He means that you cannot restrict God to a spatial existence
“Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.” (Psalms 139:7-8)
But God does dwell in Heaven, which is His throne, and in the believer by His Spirit, thanks be to God.
Thanks for those links!
Jesus healed blind men in different ways. I always think of that. We are all individuals and I think God treats us as individuals.
My Dad was an aviation enthusiast as am I. He was also in the Air Force. When he passed away, the funeral was held at our little country church which is 30 miles from the nearest airport. Barksdale AFB sent an honor guard which traveled over two hours to get there. They were awesome.
Even more awesome, as my Dad's body was being carried from the church to the cemetery, a plane appeared overhead at low altitude. It traveled slowly and directly overhead and in the same direction as the procession, finally disappearing over the horizon.
The odds of even hearing a plane there are extremely slim, much less seeing one at low altitude or traveling in the direction you're walking. Even the funeral director remarked that is was an awesome "fly over". The timing was perfect.
I will always take that event as a message. I don't know what possessed that pilot to take the course he did that day. I just know something did...
To see the signs, you have to first be aware that they exist. I believe every life is important and counted by God, even a sparrow's life.
Geese Fly-Over at beginning of Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor Rally
Your post #30 is fascinating. Do you think that experience suggests that you will see Woodie again in an afterlife?
The reason I ask is that I truly believe that there is an afterlife for me and I pray that I will once again see my beloved dogs.
I know it’s not particularly Biblical, but there does seem to be something going on. And I’ve read in many of these people recognize it’s Christ they’re seeing as “the Light” and feeling a great enveloping love from it. I find this very comforting!
Actually, I think it “might” be biblical. Remember the story of:
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
I found my answer from Solomon, in Ecclesiastes 3. The first half is quite famous, but what follows contains the meat of the matter, expressed hauntingly.
Thank you. I will consult my Bible.
Your account of India is merely one occurance, not a cultural standard.
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