Posted on 09/17/2011 3:16:55 PM PDT by NYer
“And omnipresent does not include nowhere.”
Who said anything about nowhere? Seems to be a comprehension problem here.
God is present in Hell (to repeat, see Rev 14).
Jesus describes hell as outer darkness, utterly separated from God.
Jesus describes hell as outer darkness, utterly separated from God.
Here’s the thing. If God is in hell then I cannot be separated from Him. He may be hands off but if He is there then I am with Him even in my desparation. That is not hell. It is life.
We’re NOT a body with a soul... we’re a soul that has a body...
Very nice. It was there for a reason and all of you received it. :^)
***In conclusion, these reports are interesting but are not evidence of an after life. Sorry!***
Maybe each person reacts differently. When I had open heart surgery I went to sleep and woke up with tubes in my mouth and nose. Nothing in between.
My mom, on the other hand, when she suffered massive burns began to die. She told us years later she was slowly pulled up into a tunnel, and at the end she saw the silhouette of Jesus. He did not beckon her and merely said he had three babies. The she began to recede from what she saw and woke up in the hospital room. The staff had given her up for dead but she revived. She lived a very religious life afterward.
She never told this to any of us till we were well into our forties.
I want to add this. Just before my mother died she was talking to my sister. Mom said there were two men dressed in black there, one a the foot of the bed and one setting in a chair there. Sis said there was no one there, but it sure put the scare in her.
I knew a woman who had this experience - this observation is correct.
On the other hand, there are too many incidents by folks not especially religious, who faced death and felt peace and a presence. This includes a lot of folks who lived through the "miracle on the Hudson" and others who faced death, but didn't have the hypoxia and drugs on board of those who died and were revived, so aren't included in the NDE experience.
I agree there is a strong cultural bias about this, and that there are a lot of reasons sceptics will not see in this a proof of life after death.
But some folks' lives change from the experience, and like falling in love, it is not easy to put into a logical box.
one more note: The movie Tombstone had Wyatt's brother not seeing anything when he died, but if you saw the whole thing, they had Doc Holliday seeing a light as he died in the hospital. I wouldn't rely on fiction to prove such things
The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an interesting article titled "AFTERLIFE." The article has a discussion on NDE's and gives additional websites where on can find further articles on the subject.
Once again I think a more naturalistic approach to NDE's will provide more information on their nature than will a "metaphysical" approach.
As far as I'm concerned there is too much variability in the subject matter of the reports upon which to base a theory that they represent a reality of an afterlife.
Perhaps you weren't clinically dead; but only in suspended animation. By no means should you conclude that you are damned unless you have neglected biblical learning in this life and are living in a state of fear and condemnation of the Holy Spirit. If so, get busy and start learning the Word, because we all die permanently at some point, and no one knows when.
Wonderful links. Thanks!
I remember that moment and it was astonishing! GB had wanted a military fly-over but it was denied by the Park Service. Those geese were, in a way, even better!
When I first started reading your story of your dad and his miraculous fly-over, I immediately thought of the Beck thing before I arrived at your link. It was also truly miraculous.
I agree! The geese flyover made a much more poignant opening.
Geese would normally scatter like mad at the sight of people standing or clapping loudly - sounds like gunfire.
Not those geese. They maintained their formation - they had a message to deliver!
Including that they were imperfect-- a few were struggling to keep up. As an example to us, much more "natural."
People who utterly reject God and refuse to open their hearts to Him cannot experience His presence. If they change, they will experience His presence. Doesn’t mean He was not actually present when their hearts were closed to him.
If I close my physical eyes, I am in darkness, even if the sun is up. If a person closes his heart to God’s existence, he is away from God, although God never went away.
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