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Mormonism and the presidency
One News Now ^ | 10-12-2011 | Sandy Rios

Posted on 10/12/2011 5:06:14 PM PDT by ReformationFan

Does Mitt Romney, an elder and former missionary of the Mormon Church, believe he will one day be a god ... equal to Jesus ... ruling his own planet? Does he agree with Mormon teaching that Jesus and Satan are brothers? That America is the Promised Land where Jesus will return one day to rule from the Garden of Eden, which Mormons believe to be Jackson County, Missouri? And do American voters have the right to know this?

When Barack Obama was running for president, he assured us he was a Christian. Pastor Rick Warren brought Candidate Obama to his mega-church and questioned him before a national audience. Obama's answers seemed to satisfy and with Warren's blessing, he proceeded to campaign. Never mind he sat for 20 years under a pastor who fumed Christian apostasy. Dr. Jeremiah Wright preached anti-Semitism, embraced homosexuality and abortion, and practiced open promiscuity. Obama and his family were mentored by Pastor Wright, but Obama said he was a Christian and that, in the minds of those who wanted to support him, made it so.

(Excerpt) Read more at onenewsnow.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: brighamyoung; josephsmith; lds; mittromney; mormon; mormonism; mormons; politics; polygamy; polygyny; presidency; religion; righttoknow; rios; romney; sandyrios; young

1 posted on 10/12/2011 5:06:25 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

Why does it matter?

We aren’t electing a Pastor in chief, and we’re not a theocracy. While we have a proud tradition of being founded on Judeo Christian values, we have a secular government.

I have many concerns about Romney as people express here, but I would oppose Mitt based on those issues, not on his religion.


2 posted on 10/12/2011 5:11:06 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: ReformationFan

“by their works shall ye know them.” i will judge him by how he treats others.


3 posted on 10/12/2011 5:13:43 PM PDT by avital2
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I think a candidate’s religious beliefs do matter for a couple of reasons. First, it provides insight into their discernment. For example, if a candidate really believed in Scientology, most people would seriously question the judgement of that candidate. Some people believe the claims of Mormonism are as ludicrous as Scientology, so the judgement of a Mormon candidate would be questioned by them. Also, if a follower of a false religion, like Mormonism, were to become President it would be a significant marketing boost for that false religion. From a political standpoint, that wouldn’t matter much, but from a spiritual standpoint, it could further confuse others into thinking Mormonism is spiritually true.


4 posted on 10/12/2011 5:24:15 PM PDT by Turtlepower
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To: ReformationFan

ReformationFan .... I’m LDS .... and I think you are full of Hog Wash!

Show me one scripture in the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, or PofGP that enshrines you Rabid Anti-LDS Phobia!

You and your Ilk show yourself to be of similar mind as the Pharisees that Our Lord continually identified as hypocrites. Ever seeking to distort, contort, and deceive to satisfy your arrogance.

If you feel the overwhelming compulsion to remove the sliver(mote)from my eye .... please start by taking the 2x4(beam) from your own.

I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and that He is the literal and only begotten Son of our Heavenly Father. I also believe that through repentance, baptism, and receipt of the Holy Ghost, and dedication to Christ’s Service, it is possible for Jesus Christ to erase my sins so that I may enter the Kingdom of God the Father, where no unclean thing can either enter or endure.


5 posted on 10/12/2011 5:38:23 PM PDT by teppe (... for my God ... for my Family ... for my Country)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
The article states,
Mitt Romney is free to practice Mormonism. And he is free to run for President of the United States. But he should not be free from answering questions about what he actually believes.
I agree with that, and wish he would deal with what, if anything, the doctrinal issues -- those most often raised by those who oppose his candidacy on the basis of his Mormonism -- have anything to do with whether he should become the President. My views are further explained here.
6 posted on 10/12/2011 5:39:43 PM PDT by DanMiller (Dan Miller)
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To: DanMiller

I consider Governor Romney a “RINO,” and there are other candidates I prefer. If he becomes the nominee, however, I shall support him as best I can and vote for him; the alternative is probably the reelection of President Obama.

You have at least chosen wisely should he be the nominee.
There are many I fear that do not share your wisdom. OTOH,
the last election we were saddled with another RINO who did
not beat Mr Obama. Hopefully there will be a more conservative
nominee who can win the day.


7 posted on 10/12/2011 6:01:45 PM PDT by wita
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To: teppe

He will not win over the evangelical vote, especially when the rats start digging deep into the Mormon doctrine. That’s why Mitt needs to stay left of right.


8 posted on 10/12/2011 6:08:31 PM PDT by hope
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To: ReformationFan

Why all this drumbeat on FR, even, about Romney’s Mormonism? That is the absolutely least relevant input into a Romney Presidency. His real negatives dwarf his religion to the point that the religion should by utterly invisible in the shadow of Socialized Medicine, Amnesty, Globalwarmingism, et al, and etc. His Mormonism should be an asset. Whatever you think of the basis of Mormon social values, they maintain what are thoroughly conservative Christian values better than any other religious group in America. Of course in Romney’s case those religious values seem to have no influence whatever on his actions as a politician and, so far, governor.


9 posted on 10/12/2011 6:14:43 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: teppe; ReformationFan

****That America is the Promised Land where Jesus will return one day to rule from the Garden of Eden, which Mormons believe to be Jackson County, Missouri? And do American voters have the right to know this?****

***And I think you are full of Hog Wash!***

I sat in a Mormon class in a Mormon (LDS)church and the teacher specificly said that when Jesus returns to the earth, all the LDS will then return to Jackson County, Missouri.

How can it be hog wash when it came from the Mormon teacher’s mouth! No one in the class of LDS believers said he was in error. NOT ONE!


10 posted on 10/12/2011 6:16:24 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare! NEW PHOTOS & PAINTINGS)
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To: wita

Ir the election comes to a choice between Romney and and the kenyan, at lesast Romney will not be the “lesser of two evils.”


11 posted on 10/12/2011 6:16:30 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: teppe

Do you believe that one day you will be a god ruling your own planet?

Just wondering, cause I dont want anybody that thinks they will someday be a god, ruling from a presidential position. That would be down right dangerous.

I prefer true humility to indignation and self rightiousness in the ultimate servant of the people.


12 posted on 10/12/2011 6:42:00 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: teppe

I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and that He is the literal and only begotten Son of our Heavenly Father.
____________________________________________

Yes most of us in these threads understand how you believe that the mormon jesus is the literal son of the mormon god...

through a literal physical sex act between the mormon god and the mormnin Mary...

However the Christian Bible does not teach us that...

The Virgin Mary was just that a VIRGIN...until AFTER she gave birth to the LORD Jesus Christ...

Mary never had sex with man nor mormon god in order to conceive the baby Jesus...

Mormonism is NOT Christianity


13 posted on 10/12/2011 6:48:41 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: teppe

I also believe that through repentance, baptism, and receipt of the Holy Ghost, and dedication to Christ’s Service, it is possible for Jesus Christ to erase my sins
____________________________________________________

Im sure the Christians in this thread will agree that that statement is not about the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible...

TeePee nearly 2000 years before you were ever born the LORD Jesus Christ shed His Blood on the Cross to save you and died in your place...

When Jesus said back then “IT IS FINISHED” it was...

On the Cross He did all the work that was ever going to be necessary not only “to erase your sins” but also to forgive you those sins...

Jesus died in your place for the death penalty of the sins and sinful inheritance you were born into..

BTW the thief on the other cross never received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues nor was he baptised in water but he was still gloriously saved and went to Heaven...


14 posted on 10/12/2011 6:56:29 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: DanMiller

DanMiller, I think you evince a thoughtful and balanced approach, for which you are to be commended. America is not a Christian country as some think. On the other hand, America is a country founded on Christian values and ethics, or, if you prefer, Judeo-Christian values. This is more than evident from even a brief (but not unserious) examination of our history as a nation. The founders created a secular representative republic that acknowledged the existence of God, and its obligations before Him, but refused to define that God, because they were well aware that that was not the job of government, but of the church.

Thus, in America, so long as one adhered to the principles proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence and the fundamental “rules” enumerated in the Constitution, one was to be considered a faithful and loyal citizen of the United States. That would mean, in the case of a presidential candidate, for example, that there is no requirement, explicit or implicit, that he (or she) be a Christian or a Jew (both were around and taken into consideration at the time of the founding of the nation). The only requirement would be that the president would adhere to the founding documents of the nation, of which the chief one is the Constitution. So far, so good.

The only time, historically speaking, that serious questions have been asked is in the case of Alf Landon and then John F. Kennedy, both of whom were Roman Catholic. The problem with them was that the Roman Pontiff had in history claimed to be the supreme head of all government on earth - which had contributed to much conflict and unrest in Europe in earlier times, a problem which was well-known to the founding fathers and which they had tried to defend us from (separation of church and state). That problem, which was not overcome in the time of Landon, was in the time of Kennedy - at least here in the U.S. - who made it known very convincingly that he was answerable to the American people and Constitution first and foremost. Thus, from then on it would never be an issue again when a Roman Catholic ran for president.

In a sense, the case of Romney is similar, but with one huge difference. The Roman Catholic Church has no policy of requiring oaths or vows of secrecy from its adherents. What you see is, more of less, what you get, agree or disagree. But with the Mormons it is different. Every so-called “temple” Mormon makes a vow to keep secret those things that transpire in the temple at his or her induction. And no non-Mormon is ever allowed into a Mormon temple after it has been dedicated and begun to function. So, the question becomes, “What happens behind closed doors?” Was the first secret vow, much of which is known from Mormons who have left Mormonism, the only such secret vow? Or are there further secrets as one progresses up the ladder of the hierarchy? There is no trustworthy and certain answer to this question for the very reason that Mormonism is very good at maintaining secrecy.

Thus, the problem of Mitt Romney is not simply that he is a RINO - and here I agree with you completely, and it is my chief reason for being resolutely against him, but that he is connected to an organization whose oath he has taken to never reveal the secrets of the temple on pain of death (which was certainly part of the vow he took when he became a temple Mormon). Many Christians know this about the Mormons, and remain very skeptical.

The other - and what follows is biased by my own Christian beliefs - crazy, even ludicrous, doctrines of Mormonism come after all of the above concerns. Mitt Romney will never be able to satisfy Christians, and presumably Jews, and perhaps others, until he has come clean on the secret stuff. But, because of the vow, he cannot. Because if he were to do that, then the whole system is in danger of collapse. So, Romney has to fall back on pleas for civility and secularism, which is not really where the problem lies ... and he knows it.

For myself, I could never vote for him until he answers, satisfactorily, as John Kennedy once did. ... but then he’d still be a RINO.

Thanks again for your thoughtful post.


15 posted on 10/12/2011 6:58:49 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Tennessee Nana

No worries, Romney is about as Mormon as Harry Reid is.


16 posted on 10/12/2011 7:06:54 PM PDT by hope
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To: hope

Fine

He can go play Bishop-in-Chief somewhere else...


17 posted on 10/12/2011 7:09:20 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Belteshazzar

Alf was a Methodist unless unless they converted him when he wasn’t looking. Al Smiff was a Catholic.


18 posted on 10/12/2011 7:16:53 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: MARTIAL MONK

You are correct. My mistake, I was in a hurry and confused Alf Landon with Al “Smiff.” Thank you for the correction.


19 posted on 10/12/2011 7:25:02 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: ReformationFan
Related thread:
Joseph Smith: Campaign for President of the United States [the first time an LDS sought to be POTUS]
20 posted on 10/12/2011 7:50:36 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: teppe; ReformationFan
ReformationFan .... I’m LDS .... and I think you are full of Hog Wash! Show me one scripture in the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, or PofGP that enshrines you Rabid Anti-LDS Phobia! You and your Ilk show yourself to be of similar mind as the Pharisees that Our Lord continually identified as hypocrites. Ever seeking to distort, contort, and deceive to satisfy your arrogance.

It's been a long time, but Irving's Law has again been invoked. ReformationFan wins the round by default.

Irving's Law, First Clause: once a comparison is made between the Pharisees and someone's theology, the discussion is immediately finished - and whoever makes the comparison automatically "loses" whatever debate was in progress, forfeiting all points previously scored.

21 posted on 10/12/2011 7:58:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2703506/posts?page=518#518)
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To: Tennessee Nana
When Jesus said back then “IT IS FINISHED” it was...

On the Cross He did all the work that was ever going to be necessary not only “to erase your sins” but also to forgive you those sins...

Amen!

22 posted on 10/12/2011 8:42:26 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Allah Ain't So Akbar!)
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To: arthurus

LOL, that maybe a slight exaggeration, if I’m reading you correctly.


23 posted on 10/13/2011 4:01:18 AM PDT by wita
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Why does it matter?

Thanks for posting my exact feeling. Who cares? He is as able a business leader as any in the field. That's what we need. Some of he smartest people in the country and possibly in the world post on this forum, but sometimes the Oprah chattiness of some of the posts makes me wonder.

24 posted on 10/13/2011 4:15:08 AM PDT by Calusa (The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles. Quoth Bob Dylan.)
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To: wita

No exaggeration. Both are statists. Both are AGWists. Both are Amnestyites. Both crave socialized medicine.Both are effectively socialists. Obama would face opposition from a Republican Congress and probably wouldn’t even get his USSC nominees passed. Romney will push the same sorts of measures as Obama would and, as a nominal Republican, will get sufficient cooperation by the non T-Party Republicans in congress to GET his bills passed and leftist pro choice (non-partisan will be the description)Court nominees passed. Romney has also expressed a willingness to “work with the Democrats.” He said it when it could only hurt him with the Republican voters in the primaries thus he was signalling the Official Democrats where his heart really lies. Romney’s Republican congress will flip in two years so that he has basically only Democrats to “work with” and Romney will be replaced in 4 years by a more competent and more determined Marxist than the kenyan. Obama will lose the Senate in two years and find a new bottom for the Democrats before the 2016 election at which the conservatives get another chance. In the matchup Romney would NOT be the lesser of two evils and the two evils will not be equal.


25 posted on 10/13/2011 5:23:45 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: arthurus

So now if I’m reading you correctly, you are one who might willingly vote for Mr Obama in 2012, because Mr Romney is exactly the same and the incumbent, in this case, should definitely be the winner?


26 posted on 10/13/2011 5:53:06 AM PDT by wita
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To: arthurus

...and obviously my previous is conjecture, because we don’t have a clue who the nominee is going to be, and it is too soon for me anyway to have a preference. I don’t think any of them other than Newt, or Santorum are appealing, and to voice what many here feel, they are the unelectable. I don’t necessarily believe that, but again it is early yet.


27 posted on 10/13/2011 6:00:00 AM PDT by wita
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To: teppe

Welcome to my world. CTR!


28 posted on 10/13/2011 6:37:22 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: hope; Salvation

“He will not win over the evangelical vote, especially when the rats start digging deep into the Mormon doctrine. “

Exactly what the anti Catholics said during JFK’s run for the presidency: “He will not win over the Protestant vote, especially when the rats start digging deep into the Catholic doctrine.”

JFK lost about a million votes simply because he was Catholic. Some of these rabid anti Mormons also believe that all the Catholics are going to hell.


29 posted on 10/13/2011 6:40:48 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Belteshazzar

“Mitt Romney will never be able to satisfy Christians, and presumably Jews, and perhaps others, until he has come clean on the secret stuff.”

I guess you are talking about what goes on in the LDS Temples. Go to www.lds.org or www.mormon.org .

Please stop making ignorant statements about my Church.

This issue should have been put to rest considering the backlash suffered by Perry’s candidacy but oh no the anti Mormons will not be silenced no matter how foolish they look and how harmful they are to civil discourse and the GOP.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. My Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who is my Advocate with the Father and the Holy Ghost is my witness.

I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I am not ashamed of the Gospel. Amen.


30 posted on 10/13/2011 6:46:12 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy

how harmful they are to civil discourse and the GOP.
_______________________________________________

SD the subject was Mormonism not American government...

The GOP doesnt run on Mormon doctrine...

Civil discourse is not stunted becauser the magic underwear is exposed...

“your” so called “church” will fall for other reasons not just because democracy is discussed...


31 posted on 10/13/2011 12:42:32 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy; All

Please stop making ignorant statements about my Church.
_____________________________________________

Yeah y’all

I stand with SD one this one...

Too much ignorance not enough actual mormon beliefs..

if ya dont know nuffin bout Joey Smith and his homemade religion, Mormonism, dont post until ya ask one of the Flying Inmen about it...

According to SD she is just an adult convert and not a BIC or TBM...


32 posted on 10/13/2011 12:48:37 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: avital2
“by their works shall ye know them.”

Ummm.... That is not a scripture. The closest thing is this: Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

This is the way the Bible tells you to judge PROPHETS. Do you think we should be judging Romney as a prophet?

33 posted on 10/13/2011 12:55:56 PM PDT by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Elsie

Some of these rabid anti Mormons also believe that all the Catholics are going to hell.
________________________________________

SD ALL of the rabid anti-Christian Mormons also believe that ALL the Catholics are going to Hell...

and ALL the rabid anti-Christian Mormons also believe that ALL the Protestants are going to Hell...

In fact ALL the rabid anti-Christian Mormons believe that ALL the Christians are going to Hell...


34 posted on 10/13/2011 12:56:36 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: avital2

i will judge him by how he treats others.
_____________________________________________

There was a time Romney was a racist bigot towards black people...


35 posted on 10/13/2011 12:58:20 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy; teppe

Welcome to my world. CTR!
________________________________________

SD I dont think TeePee is a big supporter of the fLDS


36 posted on 10/13/2011 1:00:00 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: wita
I wouldn't vote for the kenyan or for Romney in any circumstance. If either of them is president after 2012 we're cooked.
Mr. Romney would not have the same effect as would the kenyan. Romney would get his Democrat legislation through the Republican congress. The kenyan wouldn't succeed.
Romney would cause the congress to flip to Democrat in 2014. The kenyan would draw a more Republican and more conservative House and Senate in 2014.
A Romney presidency would ensure that an even harder core Marxist Democrat wins in 2016 as a reaction to the failure of the "Republican" presidency. The kenyan for 4 more years would give conservatives one more chance in 2016 though there might not be anything left of the economy or the society to resurrect.
Both men will appoint socialists and statists to the Cabinet and bureaucracy and to the Court, the Kenyan because he is a believing Marxist and Romney because he will be "working with the Democrats" and "reaching out."
I do expect the kenyan to do more damage with EOs than Romney would but perhaps the Republican Congress would finally stand up and counter those EOs.

I will vote for any conservative who turns out to be the Republican nominee. I would even vote for Gingrich. I won't vote for Romney or for any other Democrat, whatever he calls himself.

37 posted on 10/13/2011 1:25:40 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Tennessee Nana

pls give me a link to that info.


38 posted on 10/13/2011 3:56:48 PM PDT by avital2
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To: avital2

Williard Mitt Romney was in his 30s when the Mormons changed their doctrines against blacks in 1978

Until that year as a BIC Born in Covenant Mormon from a “royal” Mormon family of genberations of polygamists, Romney had been taught to hate black people and believe them to be inferior and the “seed of Cain” and agreed that they should not be members of the Mormon religion and the men must not be “priests” like he was...

As a high priest of the Mormon religion, Romney has not to date even denounced the racist bigotted past of himself his family or his religion...

BTW Jimmy Carter leaned on the Mormons and was in many ways responsible for the Mormons changing that doctrine and in 1980 the Mormons punished their long time Democrat friends and Jimmy by holding their noses and voting for the one they hated more, Ronald Reagan...


39 posted on 10/13/2011 5:23:59 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Saundra Duffy
I am not ashamed of the Gospel.

Shouting from the rooftops again, are you?

40 posted on 10/13/2011 6:19:14 PM PDT by CommerceComet (Governor Romney, why would any conservative vote for the author of the beta version of ObamaCare?)
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To: Tennessee Nana

i remember this now and his response:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcw0woPX5VY


41 posted on 10/13/2011 6:53:17 PM PDT by avital2
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To: Saundra Duffy

Saundra Duffy wrote:
“Please stop making ignorant statements about my Church.”

Are my remarks so ignorant?

I am sorry, dear lady, but yours is a different Jesus. And yours is a different gospel. I don’t think that you know the history of your own church, and you surely do not know the historical teachings of the Christian church. That you are sincere in your protestations and proclamations, I do not doubt. But you have been misinformed ... badly. Please, please, get so mad at me that you set out to prove I am wrong. Please.


42 posted on 10/13/2011 10:06:07 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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