Posted on 10/19/2011 2:40:04 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
Who are the Jews? YHVH tells us directly who they are
Jeremiah 31:31 [ The New Covenant that is ratified in the NT ] “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
Gentile = goyim = nations = out of covenant
The house of Isra’el(Ephraim, out of covenant thus are called gentiles) that was scattered never came back from Syria after captivity. They would become gentiles because they would follow the ways of the pagans but always would have Torah in their heart and why they were drawn to follow certain Torah instructions, i.e. Sabbath worship behind the 3ft wall of separation. It is why so many were baptized back into the covenant during the 1st century.
Amos 9:9 “ For surely I will command, And will sift the house of Israel among all nations"
melo-ha-goyim = mutitude of gentiles/nations
Genesis 48:19 But his(Joseph) father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know. He(Manasseh) also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother(Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations.”
The house of Judah(Jews) came back after captivity in Babylon and have since preserved the integrity of YHVH’s Words(the Torah & the writings of the Prophets) in written form but in practice, not so much(Talmud-oral law added to by the carnal flesh)
The warning Paul was giving to the ecclesia in Philippi was not to fall back into the burdens(yokes) of the oral law of the rabbinical Talmud that said salvation only comes after circumcision and these Rabbis kept track of every person they baptized as a sort of honor to themselves as to their works. Pagans were never part of the covenant, but they have always been welcome should they chose YHVH and say "I Do" to HIS Torah marriage contract which is Torah.
Does Torah say all males are to be circumcised, yes. Is it required for salvation, NO! Circumcision of the heart is accepting Torah and then as one learns, they start doing what YHVH commands them to do. It is not an overnight conversion in which everything is revealed at one time. YHVH is very patient with HIS children in order that they not stumble, but if they do, HIS grace has always been there to pick them up and get them back on the right path.
see post #20
Why would any true Jew bother?
I’ve read your stuff before. You have a reputation fot hostility yourself, cookie.
Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
One who believes that Torah was abolished and thus does not believe they have to do as it says and can continue in the practices of pagans, has not said “I DO” to the New covenant and therefore should be the last one to pointing out something YHVH Himself declared will be until HE returns. We need to be working on getting the abominations out of our own houses, not that of Judah.
John 6:28-29
King James Version (KJV)
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent
The author of the book of John, makes that claim. Written around 80-100 AD. A long ways away from the time of Jesus. And if Jesus was G-d, why didnt he write even one word of his own? G-d Himself, wrote the Ten Commandments but Jesus couldnt write his own thoughts when paper and pen existed? I do not accept the NT.
well, you have put your finger on why you and i will never come to agreement. the question every person must deal with is “Who is Jesus Christ”? if the answer is anything less than the Son of God who became man to live a sinless life and willingly give up His life on the cross as a sacrifice for the sins of the world and rise from the dead, ascend into heaven where He reigns over His Kingdom, than you will die in your sins. if you reject the New Testament, you reject Jesus.
“Jesus couldn’t write his own thoughts”
Come to think of it,
He couldn’t even save his own life.
Barabbas was da man.
The reason this question has such renewed interest is because of the Land of Israel. Does it belong to B’nei Ysirael (Children of Israel - Jew has no official meaning, it’s merely a nickname), or does it belong to Christians? And if it belongs to Christians, which ones?
God is not concerned with geography. Jesus Kingdom is not of this world.
He is concerned on whether a soul is in the kingdom of darkness or in the Kingdom of His beloved Son.
the real promised land ( heaven ) does belong to the Israel of God, the Church, the Body of Christ.
He came as Himself, Spirit & Word. I guess you haven't been back around the thread block lately
Let US make man in OUR image...
Yes, there are religious denominations that believe that too. However, for Scriptural discernment it is critical to study Hebrew & understand Hebrew idioms. "Let us" and “in our image” does not refer to two beings nor does it refer to our fleshly form as YHVH Elohim is without form. You cite from Gen 1:26; however let us take a look at what YHVH says in HIS expanded historical account of the verse in Gen 2:7
7 Then ADONAI(the Hebrew text shows Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey, YHVH, the name of our Elohim), God, formed a person [Hebrew: adam, man not Adam the man's name; carnal flesh] from the dust of the ground [Hebrew: adamah] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, so that he became a living being
A carnal Greek mindset of the reading of Gen 1:26 does lend a carnal mind to think of the fleshly form first, but in Hebrew the adjective always follows the noun so one must go to Gen 2:7 to get the adjective and that adjective is “breath of life” which is “Spirit & Word”
Because Adam(carnal flesh) ignored the “Spirit & the Word” man fell into a continual corruptable carnal state of mind. From that time YHVH has been working to get HIS children to give up the carnal & turn back to the “Spirit & Word” for that is the image, the substance of YHVH our Elohim
When YHVH returns are we to be looking for a carnal image? Heaven forbid! For if we set our eyes on the flesh, we will be fooled by the deceitful one who comes in HIS name claiming to be HIS image. But if our hearts cling fast to the “Spirit & the Word” which has been constant from the beginning, that has never changed, is always eternal, then we will not be deceived.
Therefore it was YHVH, the “Spirit & the WORD” that came as our Messiah in the form adam(man - Spirit & Word) in order that Adam(carnal flesh)would recognize & understand HIM. We also must look to the history at Mt Sinai where the people trembled at the voice of YHVH because it was so powerful. When YHVH chose Moses to be the mediator(Adamaic high priest) between HE and the people, YHVH prophesied about HIS title as High Priest that HE would need to establish on earth as it is in HIS Kingdom. YHVH also knew that HE Himself would eventually have to come at a later set time because YHVH knew Adam (carnal flesh) would ignore HIM by continuing to add & take away from HIS Word. YHVH came as Yah’shua to instruct HIS children to cast off rabbinic legalism & follow HIM only.
The yods & strokes Yah’shua spoke of in Mt 5:18 are very, very, very, very, very importantif one is to understand what YHVH is saying to us. Thus the reason one can not discern the truth by just reading & studying in English & Greek.
In Gen 2:4 YHVH says “these are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created”. The Hebrew letter “Yod” which also represents the hand of YHVH in certain words appears 2x in the Hebrew spelling of generations.
The next appearance of generations comes in Gen 5:1 “This is the book of the generations of Adam”. This time the 2nd “Yod” is missing from the word generations. The hand of YHVH was removed because Adam(carnal flesh) had corrupted the “Spirit & the Word”.
Through Torah & the Prophets the word “generations” is never spelled the way YHVH intended it to be because Adam(carnal flesh) continued to corrupt YHVH’s “Spirit & Word”. That is, UNTIL we get the the Book of Ruth.
Ruth 4: 18-22 "Now these are the generations of Pharez:... and Obed begat Jesse, and Jesse begat David"
By restoring the 2nd “Yod”, the hand of YHVH, to the word "generations" YHVH prophesied that the adam(man-Spirit & Word) HE would come in as the Messiah would come through the seed of Ruth(born a gentile & through devotion to Torah & marriage to Boaz became a member of the house of Judah) which would bring forth the House of David & this adam(man)would be without blemish.
2 Samuel 22:47 “The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be my God, the Rock, my Savior!
Isaiah 17:10 You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress
Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior
Psalm 18:46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
Psalm 25:5 Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long
Psalm 27:9 Do not hide your face from me, do not turn your servant away in anger; you have been my helper. Do not reject me or forsake me, God my Savior
Psalm 42:5 Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God
Micah 7:7 But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior
Habakkuk 3:18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will be joyful in God my Savior
Luke 1:47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people
Titus 1:3 and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior
Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior
Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority
The Apostles were not saying “God our Savior”out of any new NT revelation or NT teaching by Yah'shua that spoke of abolishing Torah as the NT did not existed at the time, therefore one can not use it to define the teachings in it because the unblemished adam named Yah'shua was YHVH. The Apostles only taught from the ONLY Scriptures that they had been taught from all their lives. The reading of Torah(Moses) and the writings of the Prophets they heard every Sabbath in the synagogues. Teachings & readings they studied diligently because Torah instruction was placed above all other subjects from their childhood.
Messiah is the title of the anointed High Priest of Isra’el through which all forgiveness is mediated. We use this title as affirmation that in deed, YHVH walked the earth in the flesh as Yah’shua. YHVH did not form a new man, he came in the for of adam(man).
Savior is the title of the deliverer of forgiveness and salvation
Yah’shua(Jesus) is the name given to the flesh means “God Saves”
We are to pray to YHVH for forgiveness “in the name(title) of Messiah who HE came as, but we are never to place the title of the flesh as having any power over that of our One & Only Elohim. And especially we do not place the name given to the flesh as having any power.
As prophesied, YHVH took the High Priesthood away from corrupted Adam(carnal flesh) and placed it back where it was always intended to be, in HIS “right hand”(another entire teaching in and of itself) because corrupted Adam(carnal flesh) thought they had the power to say how salvation is received & who receives it according to their rabbinic legalism(Talmud-oral law not given by YHVH). Cornelius! Man may be corrupt, but he was never “unclean”.
This is why the red banner(part of the sacrificial ritual of the scapegoat) placed on the Temple on Yom Kippur never turned white again after Yah’shua died(the name given to the flesh in order for the final blood atonement). The Adamaic(carnal flesh) high priesthood of Leviticus was taken away, never to be used again. The only way for Adam (carnal flesh) to receive forgiveness is to go straight to YHVH in the name(title) Messiah, the renew High Priest. The blood sacrifice from the Levitical Temple service was forever rejected. It was not taken away by Yah’shua the flesh, it was taken away by YHVH in the shedding of the blood of Yah’shua and it was Prophesied from the beginning that is MUST happen.
In our business I have many titles, but I am still only one being. YHVH has many titles and HE has never been anything but ONE being.
I have to say it is quite interesting reading religious history and all the Christendom bashing of Jews for killing their Elohim(God). Yes indeed, these historians knew exactly what they were saying. Too bad they cast off the front of the book, Torah & the Prophets, as irrelevent in order to be just like the Pharisee & Sadducee that Messiah rebuked. they became just like those who YHVH rebuked when he spoke as adam(man). Yes, carnal religious minds all think alike no matter the denomination.
The “Son”, Word brought in the form of flesh, is a metaphor for how all of YHVH’s children are to be. The “Son”, Yah’shua, was the living breathing “Spirit & Word” that was first breathed into adam(man) in the beginning. The Word brought in the form of flesh was our physical example and that flesh never strayed from the “Spirit& the Word” because not one of his actions was his own. Not one action, not one word was from his flesh or carnal mind; from birth to death.
We are to be examples of YHVH’s “Son”(adam in Gen 2:7), “Spirit & Word” not sons (Adams of the fallen flesh).
The NT is YHVH’s testimony, one of HIS witnesses that HE was here among men in order to restore HIS house that had been broken in two.
I understand why you do not accept it. YHVH will tell you all about it when HE says it is time for the house of Judah to no longer be blind in part.
Shabbat Shalom! May your final day of Sukkot be joyous & full of celebration.
“in the form of flesh, was a metaphor....”
Jesus is true God and true man, he ate, slept, got tired, cried, laughed, etc. no metaphor, true man.
We are to close prayer “in the name of Messiah” as our affirmation that YHVH truly did walk in the form of adam(man) among Adam(carnal flesh) however, our prayers are always to be directed directly to YHVH only; not through any earthly being. If one truly wants the truth, then there is only ONE Being in the universe who can open the door to the truth which resides in the heart of each & every human being. It all starts with the heart as that is where the "Spirit & Word" lives within us. YHVH is the only one with the key to our hearts, not Adam(carnal flesh) dressed in religious garments.
Truth lives in all our hearts waiting patiently for us to ask YHVH to turn the key in the door of our hearts in order for the "Spirit & Word" to begin to pour out.
The support the fundamentalists lavish on Israel is interpreted by many Jews as being subterfuge for the secret aim to convert them to Christianity.
At recent High Holy Day Services as well as in the Jewish media, there is much discussion of how to ward off the unwelcome advances of these evangelicals who prowl about in sheep's attire but are ravenous wolves.
The Jews are now on the streets forcefully debating Messianic Jews proselytizing fellow unsuspecting Jews.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachConsider that the word “Jew” is the English transliterationStern, D. H. (1996, c1992). Jewish New Testament Commentary
of Hebrew Y˒hudi, from the root “yadah,” which means
“to give thanks, to praise, to confess openly and freely.”
To be a true Jew is to be someone who gives thanks to God,
praises God, and confesses God, his Word, his truth
and his love, openly and freely, who is in a close
relationship with him
: A companion volume to the Jewish New Testament (electronic
ed.) (Lk 15:15). Clarksville: Jewish New Testament Publications.
according to Paul, the true Jew is one who believes in Jesus Christ. this is why the Church is the Israel of God.
if you belong to Christ, you are an heir to the promises made to Abraham. if you reject Christ, you will die in your sins.
Thank you Patlin. Do you celebrate Sukkot?
Yes..I do reject the NT. Just the fact that there is a NT means he was not the messiah. It wont take a NT to convince people when messiah comes. It will be perfectly clear, from the least to the greatest, no ambiguity and it will take NO faith.
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