Posted on 11/10/2011 3:56:02 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
Jesus didn’t preach a new religion separate from his Jewish roots -—————
you are correct, the OT tells the story of God reconciling sinners to Himself thru the coming Messiah who will bear the perfect Passover Sacrifice.
Jesus taught “ I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me”
Sadly, the majority of Jews then and ever since, did not believe Jesus was sent by the Father. because of this, the Kingdom was taken from them and given to a nation that bears fruit.
Then about whom was Psalm 102 written?
and we will be judged by the Words of YHVH as written by Moses, not by what Greco-Roman-English Christendom doctrine teaches as sin.
That Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone had a historical beginning and a historical ending. It has been superseded by the New Covenant. You need to Shepardize your legal citations. And btw, who is that "we" you are talking about as being judged by the law of Moses? Since when was the specific document that constituted the legal covenant terms between God and the nation of Israel ever given or applied to any Gentile as a Gentile outside Israel??
Cordially,
Cordially.
In Psalm 102, David is praying to YHVH. LORD is a tretragram for YHVH(Yahweh). After the destruction of the 2nd Temple, the Jews thought that saying Yahweh's name was part of what caused Him to bring the destruction so after that and to this day, orthodox Jews do not say His name out loud. In my CJB, they use ‘ADONAI’ in place of YHVH in Psalm 102, so to know what one is reading one needs to use a Hebrew Interlinear Bible.
‘Lord’ (capital ‘L’ small ‘ord’) is a title as in master, king, prince, etc, etc.
That Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone had a historical beginning and a historical ending. It has been superseded by the New Covenant
This is a flat out lie that has been perpetrated by the hierarchy of Christendom since the late 2nd century. Think about this for a moment:
If the law that defines sin was nailed to the cross, then what power does YHVH have to judge anyone for something that doesn't exist?
What was nailed to the cross was the bonds of commandments from ordinances. When one looks up that word ordinances in Greek, then taking it back to Hebrew, we find that both Greek & Hebrew define ordinances as religious dogma of man, NOT the Torah instructions of YHVH. But since we have been good little blind sheep who sit in pews and just take in what they give us rather than discerning what they say using the Words of YHVH, we have been sucked into the lies of the forefathers for nearly 2000 yrs and sadly just to say we believe Yah’shua is the Messiah is not enough for even haSatan believes Yah’shua is the Messiah.
James 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
FYI...gentile means one who is NOT a member of the covenant and the terms of the covenant are defined by the Words of YHVH that were given to Moses. We are His bride and unless we say ‘I do’ to the entire covenant like they did at Mt Sinai, He is not taking us as His bride. The new covenant is not new, it was proclaimed int he desert right before they crossed the Jordan. Yah’shua came to RENEW that covenant, not replace it because it was Yah’shua, “The Word”, the “Alef-Tav” that made it while Abraham was sleeping. (John 14; John 15; 1 John 2,3,5; Rev 1; Rev 12:17)
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome
Commandments in Hebrew is ‘davar’ which literally means ‘word’ NOT law as the doctrine of Christendom has defined it. His words are His house rules, the Constitution of His Kingdom, the same as we have for immigrants who come here. Want to be a citizen of the kingdom of the US, then you must agree and follow the rules, the Constitution, of the kingdom of the US, take the test & swear an oath. Where do you think the rules of civilized society came from? It wasn't from man, it was from His words that were written down by Moses.
“when all die, they are gone”
really, is that what Jesus said? Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “this day, you will be with me in paradise”
they were both about to die, how could He say that if “they are gone”
Jesus revealed Himself to be the Messiah and told the Jews in His day that unless they believed He was sent from the Father, they would die in their sins.
they didn’t need to carry the NT, they were living the NT.
you are free to reject Jesus, but He said if you do, you will die in your sins. no second chances given, once you die, then comes judgement.
Jesus is either who He said He is, namely God in the flesh, or He is a liar, and a meglomaniac. no middle ground, no he was a “good man” or a prophet.
“Understanding the difficult words of Jesus” by David Biven...
Since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, however, the leading proponents of the Aramaic theory have gradually begun to modify their views. Matthew Black, for instance, in the 3rd edition of his influential book, ‘An Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts’ remarks:
The Qumran discoveries have also shed fresh light on the problem. M.Wilcox writes: “With regard to the matter of language, we ought to note that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has now placed at our disposal information of a highly interesting and relevant nature.... The nonbiblical texts show us a free, living language, and attest the fact that in New Testament times, and for some considerable time previously, Hebrew was not confined to Rabbinical circles by any means, but appeared as a normal vehicle of expression.
If this is a correct estimate of the Qumran evidence, where Hebrew certainly vastly dominated over Aramaic, then it may be held to confirm the view identified with the name of Professor Segal that Hebrew was actually a spoken vernacular in Judaea in the time of Christ” (Black 1967:47)
Greek Theory: ...it remains an important fact that the poor Greek of the Synoptic Gospels is found basically only in literary works that are translations from Semitic originals, such as the Septuagint...many Gospel expressions are not just poor Greek, but actually meaningless Greek....example Mt 6:22-23 reads “the lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is good, your whole body is full of light; but if your eye is bad your whole body is full of darkness...”. the expressions “good eye” and “Bad eye” are common Hebrew idioms for “generous” and “Miserly”. Greek as no such idioms, and in Greek this statement of Jesus is meaningless, just as it is in English....Are we claiming that the Synoptic Gospels were not originally written on Greek? To this we must answer “yes” and “no”. The Synoptic Gospels as we have them today were originally written in Greek; however the text from which they descended was originally translated from a Hebrew archetype...it is the undertext of our canonical Gospels that reveals the Hebrew origin... Our canonical Gospels are based on Greek texts derived from Greek translation of the original Hebrew story of Jesus...It is most unfortunate that our Bible colleges and seminaries focus their attention on Greek and Hellenistic theology, and fail, by and large, to equip their students with the proper tools that would allow them to do serious bible exegesis...The evidence for Aramaic or Greek origins of the Synoptic Gospels simply will not stand up under critical analysis. There is far more substantial evidence indicating a Hebrew origin of the Synoptic Gospels.”
That right there tells me everything I need to know about where you're coming from.
professed by Jesus and his followers of the time) of what man's nature is:
Genesis 2:7
Then Master YHWH formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.
Psalm 104:29-30
But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust. When you give them your breath, life is created, and you renew the face of the earth.
Ecclesiastes 12:5,6,7
....because the man man goes to his eternal home.....and the dust returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit returns to YHWH who gave it.
Jesus and his 12 taught a version of the same thing that all Jewish Teachers taught at that time and is still relevant within Torah/Tanakh today: When all die they are gone, they are dead; no 'wandering ghosts' no 'lost spirits'.
To conclude from selective quotes that what is true of parts of the whole must be true of the whole without providing any justification for the inference is fallacious reasoning.
It's really quite simple, no celestial pearly gates at the ends of the universe and no cave of fire across the river styx.
Resorting to gross caricature doesn't help your cause.
Cordially
Cordially,
I am curious, in your mind why did Jesus die on the cross?
And you think a word that was dictated to John (the writer of the “Gospel of John”) by ‘The Word” which was Yah’shua Messiah was the 1st time it was used? The 1st time the word appears in the Scriptures in in Gen 37 in reference to Joseph & the well incident. The Hebrew word she’ol that was translated into Greek is comprised of the ‘sheen’ and the ‘lamed’. It means to "draw out" as in draw out of something. It is an action word not a name of a place.
The Hebrew word for hell, is spelled ‘sheen’ ‘alef’ ‘vav’ ‘lamed’ = sh’awl, not she’ol. Thus the Greek mistranslated the word which happens quite frequently all throughout the Scriptures and thus renders the meaning of the passage meaningless unless one takes time to translate it properly to get the correct meaning. But according the the doctrine of Christendom, what the hell! They threw out the Sabbath and replaced it with the pagan day of weekly worship. They threw out the Almighty Father's appointed convocations and replaced them with the appointed holidays of pagan worship. They've got people eating things YHVH never meant for human consumption, not only for obedience sake, but for health reasons due to diseases these creatures carry that no amount of heat can kill.
So what makes you think what they gave us as Scripture is pure in form? I wasn't born yesterday, but I sure was a sucker from day one. That is until now that I know for myself how to actually discern the Scriptures as YHVH intended us to do.
Do you really think John did not know, or could not or would not use Greek?
John was a Jewish Hebrew and of course he probably knew Greek, most of them knew several languages; but Greek was not his 1st language. These men taught in synagogues, not pagan Greek churches.
The fact is, Yah’shua told us himself that he “only came for the lost sheep of Isra’el”.(Mt 15:24) He did not come searching for pagan gentiles who could have cared less about him because they had their own gods. The Scriptures define the lost sheep as the children of Isra’el who had been dispersed into all areas of the then known region when they were taken into captivity by Assyria as well as sent into Babylon because they had broken covenant with YHVH which is defined as not following Torah. They were dispersed for worshiping Him as the pagans worshiped their gods. It is not about how we perceive how we are worshiping YHVH. It is about how HE perceives how we are worshiping Him and worshiping Him in any other way than what He instructed is of great offense to Him. So offensive 3000 died at Mt Sinai for it.
1 John 3:1 See what love the Father has lavished on us in letting us be called God's children! For that is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it has not known him. 2 Dear friends, we are God's children now; and it has not yet been made clear what we will become. We do know that when he appears, we will be like him; because we will see him as he really is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in him continues purifying himself, since God is pure. 4 Everyone who keeps sinning is violating Torah - indeed, sin is violation of Torah.[CJB]
Jer 3:8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel(house of Isra’el, 10 northern tribes) had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah(house of Judah/Jews) did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 11:16 The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken
Ez 37:16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’
Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—; 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts
No new covenant for pagan gentiles, only for the two houses of Isra'el
Rm 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?.....29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
So when Paul says he was only talking to those who understand Torah and he began talking about the law of divorce; he knew exactly what he was saying and who he was saying it to, the out of covenant children of Isra’el, the branches of the Green Olive Tree, the dispersion of John 7:35. You see, YHVH never diovorced the house of Judah(Jews), and though they don't have things perfect, they have always kept Torah and have never been out of covenant. YHVH blinded the houe of Judah to the Messiah and we are to be a light for YHVH to bring the house of Judah to jealousy that they may seek Messiah. However, they are not & have never been out of covenant because He also told us that HE will lift the veil for the remaining Jews who are still blind to Messiah when HE returns.
The other reason Messiah came was to put salvation back where it belonged, in the hands of the heavenly High Priest as it had been from the beginning until the golden calf incident at Mt Sinai.
Exodus 19:6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. (Speaking of the Malki’Tzedek priesthood which began with Adam, replaced by the Levitical priesthood because of the golden calf incident, now returned by the blood of Messiah)
I’m sorry, but the fruit you proffer here is not of HIS fruit.
I asked you why you believe that Jesus died on the cross. Also what do you think happened to the tribes other than Judah?
what do you think happened to the tribes
The dispersed are now scattered throughout all 4 corners of the now known world. There is no way to know if one is a descendant because there is no way to accurately test blood. But blood is NOT & never has been the determining factor as Isra’el did not exist until Jacob. It has always been the heart and the reason YHVH said in Ex 12:49
“One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”
The laws of immigration we have here on earth are based off the law of HIS kingdom and why Paul said in Eph 2:19
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God
haSatan in Rev 12:17 is ONLY concerned about “those who obey God's commands and bear witness(testimony) to Yeshua”. Why is that? Because those that don't have both are not in covenant with YHVH!
Do you have any thoughts about Hosea 1:10?
Hsa 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.
Good post.
I suspect too many ‘liberal’ Christians fail to discern the Judgment on the Cross with Forgiveness of sin.
His Judgment of all sin on the Cross, now allows God the freedom to forgive us immediately when we face Him and confess our sin to Him, placing us now in a perspective of Him in righteousness rather than expecting judgment.
So how do we escape judgment? Simple. By faith in Him, facing Him, confessing our sin to Him, and letting Him handle the situation. He provides, we accept and by that faithful obedience live the spiritual walk He has planned for us.
Yes, it is referring to Yahweh, and yet Hebrews 1:10 quotes this passage in which Yahweh is the subject as referring to the Son. In Psalm 102:24 the person addressed is called “God”
8But of the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
10And,
"You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.[a]
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end."
This is a flat out lie that has been perpetrated by the hierarchy of Christendom since the late 2nd century. Think about this for a moment:
If the law that defines sin was nailed to the cross, then what power does YHVH have to judge anyone for something that doesn't exist?
Was there sin in the world before the Law of Moses; the Covenant as represented by the Tablets of Stone?
What was nailed to the cross was the bonds of commandments from ordinances. When one looks up that word ordinances in Greek, then taking it back to Hebrew, we find that both Greek & Hebrew define ordinances as religious dogma of man, NOT the Torah instructions of YHVH.
That is just a flat out misrepresentation of the Scripture with regard to the use of the word "ordinances":
In Deuteronomy 5:1 The Ten Commandments are called "My statures and all My ordinances"
In Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called "My statures and all My ordinances"
In Levitcus 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25: two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the Ten Commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies".
Ezekiel 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, My statutes and My ordinances.
The new covenant is not new, it was proclaimed int he desert right before they crossed the Jordan. Yah’shua came to RENEW that covenant, not replace it
You say the New Covenant is not new. Jeremiah says otherwise:
31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
Commandments in Hebrew is ‘davar’ which literally means ‘word’ NOT law as the doctrine of Christendom has defined it. His words are His house rules, the Constitution of His Kingdom, the same as we have for immigrants who come here. Want to be a citizen of the kingdom of the US, then you must agree and follow the rules, the Constitution, of the kingdom of the US, take the test & swear an oath.
The irony of your statement here is that your doctrinal position on the Mosaic Law would be similar to that of a contemporary who thinks we are still living under the Articles of Confederation. You are trying to live under the wrong Constitution.
Cordially,
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