Posted on 11/21/2011 12:43:59 PM PST by Former Fetus
I am getting ready to start a series in my Sunday school class on the Feasts of the Lord, as described in the 23rd chapter of Leviticus.
We are Southern Baptists, but there are 3 Seven Day Adventists who attend my class. I know what's coming: we are going to get tangled up with discussing whether or not Christians must follow Old Testament Law. I know the SDAs worship on Saturdays, and at least these 3 people claim to eat kosher (although it seems that to them it just means avoiding pork).
I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to get ready. How much of the Old Testament Law do SDAs follow? Why not 100%? Aren't we "free from the Law"? Why do we keep the Ten Commandments but ignore the rest of the Law? I know all these issues, and more, are going go come up so any suggestions on how to handle them will be very welcome.
I am just trying to make sure the next few weeks are better than the year we spent studying Revelation: the tension with the SDAs got to be so bad that half of my class stopped coming! I had adult students crying in class!
Don’t you find it amazing they are so angry about a being they say isn’t real?
About a millions years ago there was a fellow in our church who was a street preacher.
Every Friday he would go down town and preach up a storm.
Every Friday a guy claiming to be an atheist would come and hassle him.
It went on for months, so the guy from our church stepped off the platform he was standing on and said “ok, you don’t believe God is real so here is what will we do. I’ll kneel here in the street and ask God to prove to you He is real. I’ll ask for something dramatic. I am going to ask Him to strike you blind.”
The guy started screaming “why would you want me to be blind”. Our friend said, “now we are at a starting point. Lets talk”.
“Don’t you find it amazing they are so angry about a being they say isn’t real?”
Well...the argument they always give me is “We’re not mad at God, only his followers.” They sure seem p*ssed at him to me.
Plus, some of the stuff in The Torah doesn't make any sense. Just being honest.
That is why I believe The Torah is God's covenant with His original people, and not really for us to understand.
Deuteronomy 7:26
Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, for it is an accursed thing.
2 John 1:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Whoever transgresses[a] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Indeed. The atheist websites I’ve seen are a scream. One of their favorite passages is where Elisha calls on a pack of bears to kill some taunting boys. “Oh, God is a scumbag! He had little kids mauled by bears!”
But no. If you read it in the original Hebrew (keeping in mind as well that it’s an archaic language with numerous differences from modern Hebrew), the boys are actually teenagers or young men, not children.
Hey... Been through this in my Bible study class also, but my memory is a little hazy. Comprehensive answer is complex: A good place to start is Acts 15; the council at Jerusalem was faced with a similar question, and their definitive, scriptural answer was that new believers were bound only by three rituals from the Old Testament: abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from ingestion of blood/meat of strangled animals and from all forms of sexual immorality. Most believers would also agree that any direct teachings of Jesus or the apostles affirming OT rules mean they are still valid. Of course, there would seem to be things missing (murder) so how do we get these? I would say (Paul’s writings, esp. Romans), we are free from the letter of the law, but bound by the transformation in ourselves by the Holy Spirit which through our concscience guides us in accordance with God’s eternal moral law... Thus, we do not attempt to codify every little situation as in the OT, but instead recognize God’s timeless moral precepts (e.g. Jesus two key commandments). Various theological arguments over the centuries, use variations of this... This means we must separate moral precepts from ritual (cermonial), and civil obligations... scriptural basis exists, for example, based on Paul’s teachings (e.g. Hebrews 9 & 10) cermonial law is temporary, but God’s guidance on morality does not change... Sorry, no time for more right now.
That being said, we as Christians do fall short, in that we have adopted practices that are not biblical. Early Christians observed the Sabbath on Saturday, but also celebrated the resurrection of Yeshua on Sunday. At no time, and in no place have we been specifically told to worship on Sunday. Early Christians celebrated the Jewish feasts, but stopped when told to do so by Rome. The resurrection was celebrated along with passover, until that point in time.
Easter, another name for the celebration of Ishtar, replaced the resurrection celebration with its exchanging of colored eggs, fertility celebration (rabbits)etc. If Christ was conceived in the sixth month at the time of the angels visitation to Mary, shortly before she left to see her cousin Elizabeth, then we should be celebrating the advent in June or July (I also believe this is the time of year when shepherds abide in their fields by night). Since god seems to fulfill prophecy according to his festivals, it might be possible that Yeshua was born on Pentecost (first fruits), and the Holy Spirit given 30 some odd years later. Once any Christian puts himself under the law, it is hard to get them to realize that only the shed blood of Yeshua saves, not the shed blood plus something in addition. I had a great uncle who knew nothing about the sacrifice of Christ for salvation. He was SDA and believed that going to church on Sunday was the mark of the beast, and he was saved because he observed the Sabbath on Saturday. Yet I also have another uncle who is SDA, but knows the Lord, he just observed the Sabbath on Saturday.
All Protestant denominations are theologically rooted in the Reformation which was aimed at truthful interpretation of Scripture.
IMHO...
I would read up on the theologies of the Reformers to learn about the issues and the differences.
Matthew Henry wrote commentaries in the early 18th century that were well-regarded that would be valuable, I happen to just have researched Numbers 7 in his commentary. I highly recommend reading his commentaries on Numbers 7. Numbers 7 is a very good example of the perfectly elegant relationship between the Old and New Testaments that God established in His Word.
If you read his commentaries on Leviticus, I’m sure you’ll find them as helpful.
While the reformers differed with Roman Catholicism on many issues, there are many chapters and verses throughout Scripture that were interpreted very consistently all the way back to the early Church fathers. Most Christians would have agreed on many topics up until the 18th century when Arminianism and related theologies really started taking hold and going in theological directions completely contrary to what was always held to be true. Too often modern Christians have never been taught what was the generally accepted Christian theology regarding Old Testament doctrine throughout the history of the Church. Not having the benefit of correct exegesis, they can be taught all sorts of heresies by pastors who are very misguided themselves.
To see the Matthew Henry commentary side-by-side with the KJV, I look at in here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=leviticus&version=KJV
On the right side of the page you’ll see a link - Show resources.
Click on that and Matthew Henry’s commentaries will be at the top of the list.
Even SDA scholars don't agree with this anymore, and admit that Sunday worship started at or just before the end of the Apostolic age. Ignatius of Antioch (+ AD 107), who knew some of the Apostles personally, congratulates his readers for "no longer Sabbathing".
****The Ten Commandments, written by God, with his finger, in STONE, placed IN the ark, and so holy, if touched, it meant instant death.****
The 10 commandments were destroyed when the people rose up to play. Thrown down and shattered. This was after the people had promised “All that the LORD commands we will do.”
Moses had to carve a new set which were placed in a coffin to show the law was dead even then. The word Ark is the same word as coffin. Check Strongs for proof. You might say the LAW was stillborn.
From that day on the people just went through the motions of obedience.
Jesus in Mark's Gospel Chapter 7, explicitly dismisses the old dietary laws: "Nothing that enters one from outside can defile that person; but the things that come out from within are what defile."
Paul comments on this in 2nd Colossians: "Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
ping
Go to khouse.org
They have some freeware, but it would be worth your while to go to the online store, click on the “Basic Bible Studies” and scroll down to “The Feasts of Israel”.
They have several different formats. If you have time, the DVD would be easiest. You would need to pause frequently for questions.
Missler really has the subject nailed and will make your study go much easier.
If you don’t have Law, how can you define sin?
Meeting on the first day of the week for the Eucharist is mentioned in Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2; in Apocalypse 1:10, it is called the Lord's day.
The Didache (14) instructs: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks (offer the Eucharist), after confessing your sins that your sacrifice may be pure".
***Don’t insult my intelligence and include the ten commandments, all ten, with the other ceremonial Mosaic laws.***
St Paul considered the five books of Moses to be THE LAW.
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Rom 2:18 And knowest [his] will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
2Cr 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
God’s Holy Day Plan
Printer-friendly version
The annual cycle of the celebration of the festivals and Holy Days reminds Christ’s disciples that He is working out His plan of extending salvation from sin and death and offering the gift of eternal life in the family of God to all humanity—past, present and future.
Holy Day Calendar
The seven annual Holy Days are annual Sabbaths. They are holy convocations, or commanded assemblies, of God’s people. These days are holy because they are sanctified (set apart) by God. He commands His people to assemble for worship and to learn about Him and His plan. His command goes further than worship only; it includes fellowshipping and rejoicing together (Leviticus:23:1-4; Deuteronomy:14:23-26; Nehemiah:8:1-12).
The New Testament record shows the continuity of observance of these days by Jesus Christ and the Church. Jesus observed these festivals, and we as His followers are told to walk as He walked (John:7:8-14; 1 John:2:6). The New Testament Church began on an annual festival—the Day of Pentecost (Acts:2:1-4). The apostles and disciples of the early Church continued to observe these festivals long after Jesus’ death and resurrection (Acts:18:21; 20:16; 27:9; 1 Corinthians:5:8). Paul upholds their observance and presents them as continuing “shadows” or outlines of the great events in God’s plan of salvation that are yet to be fulfilled (Colossians:2:16-17). He also instructed the congregation in Corinth, “Let us keep the feast” (1 Corinthians:5:8).
Through the observance of these feasts, God’s people focus on and are reminded throughout the year of the work of Jesus the Messiah. It is through preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God and the divine calling to a new way of life (John:6:44) that we see the building up of the Church as the family of God. Through Christ as our focal point, we begin to understand the special meaning behind the annual feasts.
During the course of the seven annual festivals are seven Holy Days, which are annual Sabbaths. These Holy Days are the first and last days of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Pentecost, the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement, the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles and the Last Great Day. Although the Passover is a festival, it is not an annual Sabbath.
The plan of salvation as revealed in the Holy Scriptures is pictured in the meaning of these seven annual festivals....
from:
http://www.ucg.org/gods-holy-day-plan/
or: The Holy Days: God’s Master Plan
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/the-holy-days-gods-master-plan
First you need to decide if these people are willing to hear the truth. If not, keep them out of your class or at least get them to agree to be quiet and if they don’t then get them out.
If they are open to the truth, ask them why GOd asked them to celebrate the Sabbath and any other feast. The cycle primarily reminds the people of God of what GOd has done. His mighty acts. They are also an instruction for us and potentially in some cases show forth mighty acts God will do (Feast of trumpets pre-figuring second coming.)
So if Jesus rested in the tomb on Holy Saturday was He keeping the sabbath? If so, can any future sabbath keeping possibly be celebrated without specific reference to that? he rested from all His work of salvation.
Per Orthodox theology the Sabbath IS still on the seventh day but it is the Lord’s death that is celebrated because that was His greatest accomplishment. While His resurrection is celebrated the next day. You decide which is a bigger deal. The old creation or the new?
No one said you didn't have the Law. But the Law is not supreme--it is subordinate to Jesus's atonement for ALL sin on the cross. Sin exists whether man believes in it or defines it or chooses to believe it does not exist, becasue sin is the judgment of God on a fallen race.
The issue is that every human being has the freedom to accept or to reject that atonement. Without that atonement,there is no forgiveness of sin, no matter how good you are or how well you follow the Law. Since a human being is a sinful being, a human being cannot fulfill all of the Law at all times.
See Romans Chapter 1 for the reason why no one born of woman has an excuse not to know about this atonement.
You are God's authority in the class... released to serve under your pastor's care and oversight...
...Not submitted to the whims and opinions of the "doctrine cops" from other streams of faith...
Matthew 5:17 ... passage context
Romans 14:17.. in chapter context
1 Timothy 4:4-5
and....
atheists will always be hostile....
And will never get it...
...until the Holy Spirit enables them to see... (2 Cor 4:4)
Stand meekly--but firm
God bless...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.