Posted on 11/25/2011 6:55:10 AM PST by marshmallow
Tens of thousands wait for hours in freezing temperatures to kiss belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother
MOSCOW — Braving freezing cold temperatures and ice-covered sidewalks, tens of thousands of Russians stood in line Wednesday to see and kiss a newly arrived relic of the Virgin Mary in Russia's largest Orthodox cathedral.
The Virgin Mary's Cincture, a belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother, was brought to Russia last month from Mount Athos, a monastic community in Greece.
Kissing the relic, which is encased in an ornamental box, is believed to help barren women conceive and heal other ailments.
The line of people, mostly women, waiting to enter the golden-domed Christ the Savior Cathedral stretched for 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) along the Moscow River despite temperatures that dropped to below minus 5 Celsius (23 Fahrenheit).
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Nothing to dodge nor deflect. You are nothing and so are your “rules.”
Matthew 16:21-23 21 From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." 23But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
Very first recorded incident after Jesus supposedly stating that Peter was the rock on which His church would be built and Peter blows it. So much for never erring......
Acts 1: 15-16, 23-26 15In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, 16"Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus......
23And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place." 26And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Matthias who?
Galatians 2:11-14 11But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"
Peter was wrong. Imagine that.
thank God that the Catholic church protected, edited, transcribed, illustrated, interpreted, copied (by hand) the bible for 1,500 years (before the printing press was invented) or else you wouldn't have Revelation 17 to refer to!
Christ was not so stupid that He would have protected all church leaders from making errors or misstatements. The Pope could come out tomorrow and state that he thinks that terycarl is the most intelligent person on earth....he would be close to the truth, but nevertheless while being slightly in error, he would not have violated the infallibillity of his office. Only when teaching the world in matters of faith and morals is he protected from error. There is always a human being as head of the church and humans make mistakes, but thusfar there have been no errors in the teachings of the Catholic curch when it comes to matters protected by Jesus' promise.
The NT does contain the ENTIRETY of the new churches history from an INFALLIBLE source..unlike the other writings that often disagreed with each other and the Roman church
Isn’t it wonderful that God will accomplish what is His will regardless! Surely you weren’t being so pompous as to think that God wouldn’t have preserved His word for us without the RCC were you? I mean, look at how the evil intent of the people who crucified Jesus was used for Gods glory. History is replete with examples of those who thought they were using God for their own promotion but God used it for His purposes.
Not once in scripture is that taught or even eluded to. That is a lie concocted by the RCC to usurp authority of he Holy Spirit.
of course not, I'm merely pointing out that tha Catholic church is the method that He chose to preserve His word...He could have done in a myriad of ways...didn't, chose the Catholic church which Jesus founded....good enough for me, and I'm very particular
Read the history of the Church fathers and you’ll know as well.
During the reign of the emperor Constantine Copronymus , a synod was held at Constantinople , to determine the controversy. The fathers being met , to the number of three hundred and thirty , after considering the doctrine of scripture , and the opinions of the fathers, decreed, That every image, of whatsoever materials made and formed by the artist , should be cast out of the Christian chruch as a strange and abominable thing,” adding an “anathema upon all who should make images or pictures , or representations of God, or of Christ, or of the Virgin Mary , or of any of the saints”condemning it as “a vain and diabolical invention” - dposing all bishops , and subjecting the monks and laity , who should set up any of them in public or private, to all the penalties of the imerial constitution. PaulI who was at that time pope of Rome , sent his legate to Constantinople , to admonish the emperor to restore the sacred images and statues to the churches , threatening him with excommunication in case of refusal. But Copronymus treated his message with the contempt it deserved.
On the decease of Paul 1 A.D. 768 , the papal chair was filled for one year by a person of the name of Constantine , who condemned the worship of images , and was therefore tumultuously deposed ; and Stephen the IV substituted in his room , who was a furious defender of them . He immediately assembled a council in the Lateran church , where the renouwned fathers abrogated all Constantine’s decrees, deposed all the bishops that had been ordained by him , annulled all his baptisms and chrisns , and , as some historians relate , after having beat and used him with great indignity , made a fire in the church and burnt him to death, After this , they annulled all the decrees of the synod of Constantinople, ordered the restoration of statues and images , and anathematized that execrable and pernicious synod , giving this curious reason for the use of images =”That if it was lawful for emperors , and those who had deserved well of their country , to have their images erected , but no lawful to set up those of God , the condition of the immortal God would be worse than that of man.
Thus the mystery of iniquity continued to work , until at length , under the reign of Irene , the empress of Constantinople , and her son Constantine about the close of this century was convned , what is termed the seventh general council . It was helf at Nice , and the number of bishops present was about three hundred and fifty . In this vererable assembly it was decreed , “That holy images of the cross should be consecrated , and put on the sacred vessels and vestments, and upon walls and boards , in private houses , and in public ways . And especially that there should be erected images of the Lord God , our Saviour Jesus Christ , of our blessed Lady , the mother of God , of the venerable angels, and of all the saints . And that whoever should presume to think or teach otherwise , or to throw away any painted books , or the figure of the cross , or any image or picture ,or any genuine relics of the martyrs, they should , if bishops or clergymen, be deposed , orif monks or laymen be excommunicated” They then pronounced anathemas upon all who should not recieve images , or who should apply what the scriptures say against idols to the holy images , or who should call the idols , or who should wilfully communcate with those who rejected and despised them ; adding , according to custom “Long live Constantine and Irene his mother - Damnation to all heretics -damnation on the council that roared against venerable images the Holy Trinity has deposed them. One would think the council of Pandmonium would have found it difficult to carry impiety and profaneness much beyond this .
Irene and Constantine approved and ratified these decrees - the result of which was , that idols and images were erected in all the churches , and those who opposed them were treated with great severity.
History of the Christian Church by William Jones (way to old for copyright for those of you who like to attempt to get post you don’t like removed)
eluded to often, but,for example ...whatsoever you shall bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.....can't make too many mistakes binding wrong things on earth and in heaven...but why wouldn't Christ have done that??? He founded a religion, guided its early leaders, instructed them as to how He wanted it to shepherd His flock and knew He wouldn't be here physically to run the show. He figured that if He offered His guidance, even from Heaven, His church would flourish, and indeed it is doing so. It was only after one thousand, five hundred years or so, did someone come along and decide that they knew better than Christ, how to design a church.....they were wrong
I LOVE it!
It looks like God could have used any method He saw fit to preserve his word.
Dead Sea Scrolls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls
Besides, the Jews had preserved Scripture for far longer than anybody else with no *help* from The Catholic church.
The Catholic church taking credit for the preservation of Scripture is disingenuous at best. People are not as ignorant as the RCC would like to believe and see through the falsified history and blatant attempts at power grabs in claims like this.
Correct, Jesus is God and as God, he has preserved the teachings he gave to his disciples both before he was crucified and after he ascended. The Roman Catholic Church, however, does not meet the criteria you presume it has and where it has diverged from Holy Scripture, has proved itself more than culpable in committing errors. The following is a start explaining just some of those blatant errors.
Contradictions in Roman Catholicism
Contra 1
RCC: 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?[335] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[336]
[This absolves those who are convinced she is not, but have been baptized in Christian faith.]
..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities…
They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. — LUMEN GENTIUM: 16.
…those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.” “All who have been justified by Faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ: they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.” — http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
It is too often asserted by Roman Catholics that the church never contradicted itself, but it has, even if it attempts to define such as reformulations.
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36 http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38
…that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed “ex cathedra” (infallible).
The Holy Catholic Church teaches that God cannot be adored except within her fold; she affirms that all those who are separated from her will not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great, “Moralia,” XIV:5)
Neither the true Faith nor eternal salvation is to be found outside the Holy Catholic Church. It is a SIN to believe that there is salvation outside the Catholic Church. (Ven. Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem, March 17, 1856; cf. also OUR GLORIOUS POPES, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Cambridge, MA: 1955, p.168)
Contra 2
“The Moslems together with us adore the one merciful God.” — Lumen Gentium
RCC: 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.[337]
I confess that the Lord will give over by a very just judgment to the punishment of eternal and inextinguishable fire the wicked who either did not know by way of the Lord or, knowing it, left it when seized by various transgressions, in order that they may burn without end. (Pope Pelagius I, “Humani Generis,” April 1, 557 A.D.)
Acts which spring from natural goodness have only the appearance of virtue; they cannot last of themselves nor can they merit salvation.(Pope St. Pius X, “Editae Saepe,” May 26, 1910)
He who is separated from the Body of the Catholic Church, however praiseworthy his conduct may seem otherwise, will never enjoy eternal life. (Pope Gregory XIV, “Summo Jugiter,” May 27, 1832)
Contra 3
Indeed, the Church deplores all hatreds, persecutions, displays of anti-semitism levelled at any time or from any source against the Jews — Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, “Nostra Aetate,” Oct. 28, 1965
The crucifiers of Christ ought to be held in continual subjection.(Pope Innocent III, “Epistle to the Hierarchy of France,” July 15, 1205)
It would be licit, according to custom, to hold the Jews in perpetual servitude because of their crime. (St. Thomas Aquinas, “De Regimine Judaeorum”)
Contra 4
Therefore, the Church reproves as foreign to the mind of Christ any discrimination against people or any harrassment on the basis of race, color, condition in life, or religion. — Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, “Nostra Aetate,” Oct. 28, 1965
Religious communities have the right not to be prevented from publicly teaching and bearing witness to their beliefs by the spoken or written word. — Declaration on Religious Freedom, “Dignitatis Humanae,” December 12, 1965
It is insanity to believe that liberty of conscience and liberty of worship are the inalienable rights of every citizen. From this stinking fountain of Indifferentism flows the erroneous and absurd opinion, or rather derangement, that liberty of conscience must be asserted and vindicated for everyone. This most pestilential error opens the door to the complete and immoderate liberty of opinions which works such widespread harm both in Church and State. (Pope Gregory XVI, “Mirari Vos,” August 15,1832)
That every man is free to embrace and to profess that religion which he, led by the light of reason, thinks to be the true religion is hereby CONDEMNED as ERROR. (Ven. Pope Pius IX, “Syllabus of Modern Errors,”December 8, 1864)
Contra 5
If special civil recognition is given to one religious community in the constitutional organization of the State, the right of all citizens and religious communities to religious freedom must be recognized and respected. — “Dignitatis Humanae”
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): [It is error to believe that] Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship.” Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Error condemned: In this age of ours, it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion be the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other cults whatsoever. In certain regions of Catholic name, it has been praiseworthily sanctioned by law that men immigrating there be allowed to have public exercises of any form of worship of their own. ope Pius IX, “Syllabus of Modern Errors,”December 8, 1864
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): “[It is error to believe that] The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.” Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, #55. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Contra 6
It is fully in accordance with the nature of Faith that in religious matters every form of coercion by men should be excluded. — Dignitatis Humanae
In this regard, I reiterate that the prohibition against torture ‘cannot be contravened under any circumstances’”. — Pope Benedict XVI, in a speech of 6 September 2007; Torture and corporal punishment as a problem in Catholic Theology, September 2005;
..the disciple of Christ rejects every recourse to such methods, which nothing could justify, and by which the dignity of man is as much debased in the torturer as in his victim. . . — Pope John Paul II, Address to the International Red Cross (Geneva, June 15, 1982).
That it is against the will of the Spirit to burn heretics at the stake is condemned as false. (Pope Leo X, “Exsurge Domino,” 1520
Innocent’s Bull [Ad Extirpanda] prescribes that captured heretics, being “murderers of souls as well as robbers of God’s sacraments and of the Christian faith, . . . are to be coerced – as are thieves and bandits – into confessing their errors and accusing others, although one must stop short of danger to life or limb.” — Bull Ad Extirpanda (Bullarium Romanorum Pontificum, vol. 3 [Turin: Franco, Fory & Dalmazzo, 1858], Lex 25, p. 556a.) http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt119.html
Contra 7
[Condemned articles of J. Hus]: 20. If the pope is wicked, and especially if he is foreknown to damnation, then he is a devil like Judas the apostle, a thief and a son of perdition and is not the head of the holy church militant since he is not even a member of it. Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum16.htm
Those who have been detected, even by slight proof, to have deviated from the doctrine of the Catholic religion ought to fall under the classification of heretic and under the sentences operating against heretics. (Pope Innocent IV, “Registers of Innocent IV,” Berger, Paris:1881)
Contra 8
Rome, Italy, Feb 19, 2010 / 02:03 pm (CNA).- The president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, Cardinal Walter Kasper, announced this week that Pope Benedict XVI will visit the Evangelical Lutheran Church located in Rome on March 14 for an ecumenical celebration.
“the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith they once received, either by corrupting the faith, as heretics, or by entirely renouncing the faith, as apostates, because the Church pronounces sentence of excommunication on both.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
“No one shall pray in common with heretics and schismatics” – Council of Laodicea.
Contra 9
Canon 229 §1. Lay persons are bound by the obligation and possess the right to acquire a knowledge of Christian doctrine adapted to their capacity and condition so that they can live in accord with the doctrine, announce it, defend it when necessary, and be enabled to assume their role in exercising the apostolate.
We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-51631.html
Quinisext Ecumenical Council, Canon 64: That a layman must not publicly make a speech or teach, thus investing himself with the dignity of a teacher, but, instead, must submit to the ordinance handed down by the Lord, and to open his ear wide to them who have received the grace of teaching ability, and to be taught by them the divine facts thoroughly. (http://peacebyjesuscom.blogspot.com/2011/09/contradictions-in-roman-catholicism.html)
>>>>>Perhaps we can all avoid it for Christmas. it’s an idea.
Yes. Christmas at FR is ruined every year
But you see, not all those things mean what they say.
Dontcha know, the RCC has to INTERPRET them for you.
I see a lot of ridiculous comments in here from smart azzez. Do you people not realize that Christianity is under constant attack from all sides? I seriously doubt your enemies are going to give a crap about what denomination you are. I dare every single one of you to find common ground instead of focusing on the differences.
I understand.
And the repetitious, re-cycled arguments and counter-arguments really are a waste of time.
Time is precious; it can’t be recovered and must be accounted for.
Come, Lord Jesus.
Your posts are edifying as well; for that reason I can say this forum isn’t a TOTAL waste of time. :-)
I, too, have gone on and off at various times. Every time I “go off” and then come back, it is more and more apparent to me that ...”things are more like they are now than they were before”.
Come, Lord Jesus.
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