2 Chronicles 29:29 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 29And at the completion of the offering up bowed have the king and all those found with him, and do obeisance. << < = = > >>
Posted on 11/25/2011 6:55:10 AM PST by marshmallow
Tens of thousands wait for hours in freezing temperatures to kiss belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother
MOSCOW — Braving freezing cold temperatures and ice-covered sidewalks, tens of thousands of Russians stood in line Wednesday to see and kiss a newly arrived relic of the Virgin Mary in Russia's largest Orthodox cathedral.
The Virgin Mary's Cincture, a belt that Christians believe was worn by Jesus' mother, was brought to Russia last month from Mount Athos, a monastic community in Greece.
Kissing the relic, which is encased in an ornamental box, is believed to help barren women conceive and heal other ailments.
The line of people, mostly women, waiting to enter the golden-domed Christ the Savior Cathedral stretched for 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) along the Moscow River despite temperatures that dropped to below minus 5 Celsius (23 Fahrenheit).
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
. Posture in Prayer, Veneration and Worship
Deut. 5:9 - God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.
Rev. 3:9 - Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship, just as kissing a picture of a family member is not worship.
Gen. 19:1 - Lot bowed down to the ground in veneration before two angels in Sodom.
Gen. 24:52 - Abraham’s servant bowed himself to the earth before the Lord.
Gen. 42:6 - Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground.
Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.
1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.
1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.
2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.
1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.
1 Chron. 29:20 - Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.
2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.
Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.
Judith 14:7 - Achior the Ammonite kneels before Judith venerating her and praising God.
Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God’s Holy Temple.
Dan. 2:46 - the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.
Dan. 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.
1 Macc. 4:40,55 - Judas and the faithful fell face down to the ground to praise heaven and worship God.
2 Macc. 10:4,26; 13:12 - Maccabeus and his followers fall down prostrate praying to God.
2 Chronicles 29:29 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 29And at the completion of the offering up bowed have the king and all those found with him, and do obeisance. << < = = > >>
Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.
1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration. 1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.
2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.
1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.
1 Chron. 29:20 - Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.
2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.
Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael. Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God’s Holy Temple.
Dan. 2:46 - the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.
Dan. 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.
I know where God gives direct instructions for how to build the Ark of the Covenant . Show me where he says to build statues of Mary or others and tells you to bow down to them ?
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
The Holy Spirit Guides us. If you know the Holy Spirit you can know. Maybe like things to come later in time. The Bible is ink on Paper. It is a map that points to God.Then you can know God then you can know whats acceptable.
So We can honor/venerate fallen soldiers with a statue in the town square but we can't honor/venerate Mary?
Why was it acceptable? Is it because God can do anything and break his own law. Or for some strange reason it is acceptable and God has integrity. But how is it acceptable. If that is true how can some statues be acceptable and others are not accepted?
*do not bow down before images* means *do not bow down before images*.
There’s just not much way of getting around it.
Bowing down before an image is a direct violation of specific and clear commands of God.
Again, and again, and again....
Paul did not receive a different gospel. Paul was in danger, the Jewish converts did not accept him because they were AFRAID of him. He had been persecuting them, he was known for it, he was there when St. Stephen was martyred.
Acts 9:26: “And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples; bu they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.”
That is why Jesus told him they would never accept PAUL’s TESTIMONY because of what he had wrought on the new Christian communities.
The other Apostles did accept Paul and had received revelation that he was a disciple. In all the NT, is there a place where any of the others speak against him? NO, they knew who he was.
He could not go to them to learn from them because they were all suspicious and wary of him. He had to have the type of conversion he had. As I have explained to you before.
And Jesus only told the Apostles to stay in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came upon them. Is it your assertion that only Paul ever left Jerusalem and preached to the Gentiles?
If that is true then God violated his own law. You can’t wiggle that statement. Which we know did not happen. How do explain that people bowed down before the statues of the angels on the ark and they got away with it from God. Something does not make sense here with that statement.
There’s a difference between bowing down before the ark which had angels on it and bowing down TO the angels on the ark.
Besides, the statutes that we’ve seen pictures of people bowing down to are not with the ark, but are stand alone’s.
Anyone who bows down before a statue TO it to pray TO it, is disobeying God.
The picture of the pope bowing before a statue of Mary is direct disobedience of the clear commands of God.
Catholics bowing in prayer and lighting candles to statues in churches are disobeying God.
There’s just not much way to rationalize your way out of it.
Its all whats inside the person while they are doing it. Honoring or worship. There are verses were it says like it is a definite “no” then God or someone from God does something acceptable. I believe he means like the pagans do otherwise how could he make statues on the ark. Obviously there is a difference. Number one God can not do anything against his character if he did he is not Holy. By his actions we see what your statement is trying to declare is not lock stock and absolute. Thats all.
***sigh***
The verses in Scripture say *bow down to*. They don’t say *do not worship* images. They say *bow down TO*
I have no doubt that that implies worship as well, however, telling me that Catholic don’t *worship* images doesn’t address the fact that they *bow down to* them, before them, whatever, in direct violation of the commands of God.
If God says not to bow down before or to an image, there’s not much getting around what people do with their bodies when in front of these images, no matter what they claim their hearts are doing.
The lie you are embracing is that icons are idols.
Do either of you believe you are doing good by these falsehoods?
You aren’t, you know. You are attacking other Christians, nothing more.
Don’t deceive yourselves.
It doesn't say *icons* or whatever.
It says *IMAGES*.
It's disingenuous to try to claim not sinning merely on the basis of relabeling something or changing definitions.
GOD says to not *BOW DOWN TO* CARVED IMAGES or GRAVEN IMAGES.
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Exodus 20:4-6 4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It says what it says. If you want to try to weasel out of it, it's your prerogative but don't expect us to believe any of your rationalizations.
The serpent in the garden asked if God really did say too
Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Exodus 20:4-6 4 "You shall NOT make for yourself
a carved image,
or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
STILL STANDS FULLY IN FORCE.
IF you think God has changed HIS jealous perspectives on such matters, then I have to wonder if we really know the same God Almighty of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
It's your perspective that God is lying in this passage?
Exodus 20:4-6 4 "You shall NOT make for yourself
a carved image,
or any likeness
of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
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