Call No Man Father?

http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/father.html ^

[DouglasKC]

1) In the original Greek Jesus is not saying "This is my body" as in having ownership of something such as a book or a car. No he actually says "This is the body which is mine". Making is much more personal.

It may do that, but the greek construct is no different than numerous other passages. For example in Matthew 8:9 the soldier speaks of his servant in the same fashion. This is common greek grammar which has no bearing on whether or not ALL future "breads" are also the body of Christ.

2) Also notice the the clause "This do in remembrance of me." He is telling them to repeat this event. Now this is where you say well it must be symbolic! But that is where you are woefully wrong. The word "remembrance" has special significance to the Jewish community. They were celebrating the Passover, the precursor to the Exodus. Jewish people consider the performance of the Passover ritual as an actual participation in the passover event. It is eternally present in the participation of that event.

Actually the word translated "remembrance" does have significance. That's because it would bring to their mind a "memorial".

In the LXX, the greek version of the old testament in common use at the time of Christ, the word (transliterated) "anamnēsis" (Strongs G364) is used in the following verses:

Num 10:10 Also in the day of your gladness, in your appointed feasts, and at the beginning of your months, you shall blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; and they shall be a memorial for you before your God: I am the LORD your God."

Lev 24:7 And you shall put pure frankincense on each row, that it may be on the bread for a memorial, an offering made by fire to the LORD.

Now that word translated "memorial" in the LXX is the same word translated "remembrance" in the nt verses Luke 22:19 and 1 Corinthians 11:24 and 25.

Now here's what's significant: In Leviticus 24:7 what was happening was that the frankincense was being burned or offered in place of the shewbread. The Complete Jewish Bible translates:

(CJB) Put frankincense with each row to be an offering made by fire to Adonai in place of the bread and as a reminder of it.

So yeah, the actual greek indicates that the bread and wine were meant to represent and remind us of the blood and body of Christ...said as the burned incense was representative of the showbread.

[verga]

Yeah like I said, Go to AskMoses.com and ask them about my interpretation/ understanding. You will find that I am spot on. Nice try at leaving that part of my quote out.

[neverbluffer]

You are the most arrogant and ignorant person I have encountered especially on the subject of Christianity....

You no nothing of what you speak, calling the Catholic Church “a cult”... Are you serious?

I suggest you study history and get your facts straight.

I always find it amusing how some in Protestant Faiths seem to go out of their way to knock and discredit everything about the Catholic Church in order to promote their own beliefs.

Since you are always quoting the Bible, why dont you look to the book of “Matthew” where Christ established Peter as the first Pope “Upon this rock you shall build my Church”, JUST WHAT CHURCH DO YOU THINK THIS WAS? It was certainly no Protestant Church since they did not exist!

They all spawned off off Catholicism and mostly because the individuals who started them decided they had a better understanding of Christianity than those of the Church Hierarchy.

There has been a POPE ever since Peter, but none before..please explain... You Cant!

There is a name of a “person” who started every Protestant Faith, but nobody can name a “person” who started the Catholic Church...please explain.... You Cant!

Because no “person” established the Catholic Church!

Study how the Lutheran Church came to be
Study how the Anglican Church came to be

Yep, all Catholic who did not want to be bound by Catholic teachings so they veered off to start a variation that fit thier needs...

Catholics do not preach intolerance for other religions and believe that if you follow your indicidual Christianity based religion to the best of your ability, you will get to heaven.

Some of the Protestant sects teach otherwise and dispense negative information about Catholicism to discredit it for its own gain.

[neverbluffer]

Get your facts straight....

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

[sasportas]

Where to start? Lets start with your first statement, the rest later.

You are the most arrogant and ignorant person I have encountered especially on the subject of Christianity....

This from someone who believes the whole of Christianity is supposed to be in subservience to the Pope on his throne at Rome? He has the so-called "primacy?" Who has killed Christians by the thousands through the centuries who disagreed with him? And you lecture me about aroogance? Give me a break.

[sasportas]

I skip over much of your post because it has been answered repeatedly on this and other RF threads, except for this lie:

Yep, all Catholic who did not want to be bound by Catholic teachings so they veered off to start a variation that fit thier needs...

Protestantism is an attempt to return to the pure original faith and beliefs of the original Apostolic church...the original faith which you guys corrupted and paganized. So much so that there is hardly any resemblance between what we see in the Bible and the Papacy.

Which makes it difficult for the rest of us, due to the thousand year Babylonian Captiviity. We've got this monstrous obstruction called the Roman Papacy between us and the original and true church blocking our view...which is why there are so many Protestant denominations.

If you guys had actually been the true successors of the truth there wouldn't be all these Protestant groups. The only reason you can't see any of this is because you are brainwashed by your priests and catechisms, etc.

[neverbluffer]

Once again, you show your ignorance.... Some Christian you are demonizing other Christian religions to prop up your own beliefs...

Do you really believe that all the Protestant religions split from the Catholic Church in an effort to return to the original “Apostolic Church” ?

Why did King Henry VIII seperate from the Catholic Church? Because he could not get a marriage annulment!!!!!!!

Why did Martin Luther seperate from the Catholic Church?

Why did John Calvin seperate from the Catholic Church?

They were “defrocked” and stripped of their Priestly functions....

By the way, I am still waiting for the name of the “PERSON” who started the Catholic Church.... you cant provide one because no man started the church...

As to your reference of “brainwashing”, you are just an ignorant human being...

[neverbluffer]

What religion do you follow?

[sasportas]

Your posts confirm that history really does repeat itself.

“Come out of her (Babylon) my people,” Rev. 18:4. The tyrannical Egytian Pharoahs enslaved and persecuted the Israelites, they came out.

Centuries later ancient Babylon enslaved Israel, a remnant of which came out.

Centuries later, Christianity came out of Judaism, Judaism, in turn, bitterly persecuted them, accusing them of heresy, calling them the same sort of names that you call me, ignorant, arrogant, stupid, etc.

Just as true Christians had to come oout of the even worse Roman Papacy system. Your enslavement and persecutions were far worse than anything Judaism ever did, at least Jews didn’t burn original Christians “heretics” by the thousands at the stake.

Heaven’s name for apostate religious systems in alliance with the state that enslave people is “Babylon.” Nothing in history fits the “Babylon” description more accurately than the Papacy. Which the elect remnant are commanded to come out of.

However, diabolical and satanic Egypt, ancient Babylon, and Judaism, may have been, none were as diabolical and satanic as the modern form of it.

Thus, your name calling I consider a badge of honor, thank you. I leave this little discussion with you, bluffer, suggesting that you obey the Biblical caommand and come out yourself.

[neverbluffer]

Nice try, but you still didnt answer my questions....

[Just mythoughts]

I want to start off by looking at the passage in the larger context with the Revised Standard Version, Matthew 23:1-10:

What is this 'Revised Standard Version', isn't the original good enough? Christ said what He said. And yet man/woman just need to revise and extend, because they can do things better.

[Cronos]

What is this 'Revised Standard Version', isn't the original good enough?

That means that it is revised in English. The Original was written in Aramaic, Hebrew and Koine Greek. I can't read any of those -- can you?

[Cronos]

JMT: The distinction in calling a biological parent father is NOT the same as calling some man in a black or red robe Father as in GOD the Father. Yes, I am familiar with the 'sola scripture' wherein Christ commanded that NO flesh being be called 'Father' as in God the Father.

Good asking and this has been debated for centuries

Look at the context of Matthew 23:1-12, "But be not ye called teacher: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren....Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

and you then need to read Matt 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

St. Paul confirms this later by referring to Timothy as his son.

[bad company]

One, No one in the primitive Christian took the title of Father. No Father Paul, No Father Timothy, no Father John.

1 Corinthians 4:15 New International Version (NIV) 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.