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Mormon College Objects to Skinny Jeans [Mormon Legalism 101]
Gawker.com ^ | Dec. 6, 2011 | Maureen O'Connor

Posted on 12/11/2011 12:56:43 PM PST by Colofornian

Updated. The first time I read this, I thought it was parody: Independent Brigham Young University publication The Student Review reports that BYU-Idaho has banned skinny jeans as part of its honor code guidelines against "form-fitting clothing." Skinny jeans: trousers of the devil? Don't tell Mitt Romney.

"It's useful for us to realize that fashions will come and go. There will always be some tempting new style," University Vice President Henry J. Eyring explained in September. Fun fact: According to Wikipedia, Eyring is a member of Romney's extended family.

Anyway, I'm 95% sure that this Student Review article is not a joke, just a straightforward dispatch from the strange, sexless world of Mormon higher education. There's a 5% chance I just don't get Mormon humor, though.

Update: BYU-Idaho's skinny jeans kerfuffle is, indeed, real. After I requested a comment from Eyring, he responded twice, and looped his two BYU-Idaho colleague Kevin Misayaki into the conversation.

from: Henry Eyring to: Maureen O'Connor cc: Kevin Miyasaki date: Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:43 PM subject: RE: Gawker Media Question: Skinny Jeans

Dear Maureen:

I appreciate your interest in BYU-Idaho. I'll share your questions with my colleague Kevin Miyasaki, who will know the answers better than I.

Thanks so much,

Henry

from: Kevin Miyasaki

to: Maureen O'Connor

cc: Henry Eyring

date: Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:29 PM

subject: RE: Gawker Media Question: Skinny Jeans

Dear Maureen:

Thank you for your concern and interest. I hope my response satisfies your question, and please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

We have not identified "skinny jeans" as a specific violation of the dress and grooming standard. We are aware of the incident and the Student Honor Office is working with the Testing Center to address the issue.

The wording in the BYU-Idaho dress and grooming standard regarding formfitting clothing is as follows: "Clothing is inappropriate when it is sleeveless, strapless, backless, or revealing. It should not have slits above the knee or be formfitting."

The foundation of this standard comes from "For the Strength of Youth" which states, "Immodest clothing includes short shorts and skirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire. Young women should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low-cut in the front or the back or revealing in any other manner."

The Testing Center has not made any new standard, nor has there been a ban of a particular piece of clothing. The effort of the Testing Center as well as with other employees and students is to encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code.

I hope this is responsive. If not, please feel free to contact me.

Kevin Miyasaki

Student Services and Activities Vice President

200 Kimball

Rexburg, ID 83460-1640

from: Henry Eyring

to: Maureen O'Connor

date: Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:35 PM

subject: RE: Gawker Media Question: Skinny Jeans

Dear Maureen:

Purely by chance, after sending my earlier message I listened to a 1973 Ricks College/BYU-Idaho devotional address by my father, Henry B. Eyring, in which he articulates our rationale for modesty in dress. If you click on the attached link, search for 1973 addresses, and scroll down to 28 August, you can get the audio recording of the talk. His remarks about dress and grooming appear about ¾ of the way through. I hope that you find them helpful.

Thanks again,

Henry

http://web.byui.edu/devotionalsandspeeches/speeches.aspx


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: byu; inman; jeans; lds; mormon
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Welcome to Mormon Higher Ed, Legalism 101, Mormon styled.
1 posted on 12/11/2011 12:56:52 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Oh, bah. This source would approve of forcing women to wear burkas.
2 posted on 12/11/2011 1:00:02 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: All
The timing may have sucked.

(Think of all of the Mormon families/friends of BYU-Idaho students who've already purchased these for them this Smithmas season)

3 posted on 12/11/2011 1:00:44 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

My son’s christian school banned them as well if they “showed the genitalia”. I support a modest dress code. I think the schools can do whatever they want. If I wanted my son to date a ho or a stripper look alike, I’d send him to the public school down the road that my taxes support. I don’t want to see your camel toe!!! 8-)


4 posted on 12/11/2011 1:01:28 PM PST by No Socialist
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To: Colofornian

We can’t make an informed decision without seeing some samples.


5 posted on 12/11/2011 1:04:41 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: All
You, know, on retrospect. I guess this decision isn't so bad.

I mean, by comparison, if a religious cult can control what underwear you wear, hey, this is an extremely small step contrast-wise!

6 posted on 12/11/2011 1:04:56 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian
What's wrong with painted-on jeans?


7 posted on 12/11/2011 1:06:23 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: No Socialist
My son’s christian school banned them as well if they “showed the genitalia”. I support a modest dress code. I think the schools can do whatever they want. If I wanted my son to date a ho or a stripper look alike, I’d send him to the public school down the road that my taxes support.

C'mon. These are adults. Not kids. Kids always need LOTS of adult input and boundary-setting.

Supposedly these are religious-based "discerning" adults.

But, hey, way to weigh in treating adults like kids.

8 posted on 12/11/2011 1:07:46 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

Well, I have absolutely no problem with this. It’s a private university, and all the school is doing is applying the long-standing honor code guidelines to a recent fashion trend. People who aren’t comfortable with the code can apply to a different university.


9 posted on 12/11/2011 1:15:36 PM PST by DemforBush (A Repo man is *always* intense!)
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To: All
As a follow-up to my comment on post #6:

I said: If a religious cult can control what underwear you wear, hey, this is an extremely small step contrast-wise!

And believe me, the Mormon has quite a monopolized forced acquisition racket going on via forcing church members to wear temple clothing that can ONLY be purchased. Church members can make their own temple aprons, but not their temple garments or temple ceremonial clothing. And even then, they HAVE TO purchase "the approved apron embroidery and sewing kit that is available through Church Distribution Services":

"Members may change to white clothing in a temple to participate in the ordinances...This sacred clothing may be purchased through Church Distribution Services...Some temples also have temple clothing available for rent...The distribution and sale of garments requires the authorization of the First Presidency. Garments are available in a variety of styles and fabrics. They may be purchased through Distribution services...When necessary, bishops and stake presidents should instruct members on how to purchase temple clothing and garments...Members may make their own temple aprons only if they use the approved apron embroidery and sewing kit that is available through Church Distribution Services. Temple garments and temple ceremonial clothing may not be made." (Lds "Church Handbook of Instructions: Book I Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics 2006, pp. 79-80)

10 posted on 12/11/2011 1:25:39 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

Are you sure this wasn’t from a muslim university?


11 posted on 12/11/2011 1:28:25 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: Colofornian

Isn’t this just about modesty?


12 posted on 12/11/2011 1:32:38 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: No Socialist

I agree with you. The school should be free to impose clothing restrictions if they want. Students are free to go elsewhere to school if wearing tight clothing is more important to them than the quality of their education and respecting rules, even those with which they disagree.


13 posted on 12/11/2011 1:36:23 PM PST by twigs
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To: No Socialist

Thank you for post #4. Good for you and good for BYU and the Mormons. Why would anyone be against this?


14 posted on 12/11/2011 1:38:38 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Colofornian

No one is “forced” to do anything in my Church. What in the world are you talking about? Haven’t you ever heard of free agency?


15 posted on 12/11/2011 1:40:36 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ( For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: vladimir998
Isn’t this just about modesty?

Well, of course.

(1) But why stop at skinny jeans? I can think of dozens of things the Mormon church can force its students to wear or not to wear. Why not an extensive comprehensive legalistic wardrobe list?

(2) Why stop at adults on campus? Why not force Mormon adults to adhere to comprehensive wardrobe policies where they meet for worship?

16 posted on 12/11/2011 1:46:43 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: SgtHooper

I was at Target last week and this chubby college boy, with kewpie doll hair, walked into the store ahead of me. He was wearing skinny jeans and it was not pretty. He looked like Perez Hilton.


17 posted on 12/11/2011 1:52:55 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: Colofornian
Welcome to Mormon Higher Ed, Legalism 101, Mormon styled.

I have no problems with modesty. I would prefer society, at large, to have reasonable standards of decorum.

Since nobody is forced to attend that school, that school is free to establish whatever dress code they choose. Don't like the dress code -- enroll in a different school.

18 posted on 12/11/2011 1:57:08 PM PST by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: Colofornian

You wrote:

“But why stop at skinny jeans?”

We’re talking about college students, right? Besides sweats what else do they were other than jeans?

“Why not an extensive comprehensive legalistic wardrobe list?

Did you ever think such a list just isn’t needed?

“Why stop at adults on campus?”

Maybe because that was the issue?

“Why not force Mormon adults to adhere to comprehensive wardrobe policies where they meet for worship?”

Force? They can’t force anyone to do anything. They have no police force or army (not any more, at least). I bet most Mormon congregations have a written or strongly recognized but unwritten dress code.


19 posted on 12/11/2011 1:59:29 PM PST by vladimir998
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To: Colofornian

“These aren’t skinny jeans...I’m just fat.” - Jim Gaffigan


20 posted on 12/11/2011 2:00:10 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("Go now. Run along and tell your Xerxes that he faces Free Men here...not slaves.")
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To: Colofornian
I was at the Mall today, for the first time in a number of years. I didn't see "skinny jeans" as far as I know but I saw a number of girls wearing leggings that outlined their butt-cracks and genital areas quite nicely. I'm sure the eighteen year old "adult" boys merely ignore the look.(not)

Not what I expected to see on a Sunday afternoon.

21 posted on 12/11/2011 2:06:01 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: vladimir998
Isn’t this just about modesty?

Of course it is. But we have some moral degenerates here masquerading as conservatives.

22 posted on 12/11/2011 2:08:39 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Saundra Duffy; No Socialist; Colofornian

No one here really has a problem with the school enforcing its dress code.

This story is a story only to illustrate the legalisms in Mormonism.

Saundra don’t try to pretend that the LDS church is not into legalisms. It is part of the draw, some people need someone to tell them what to do, it makes them feel better and not responsible if they believe in false teachings.


23 posted on 12/11/2011 2:14:26 PM PST by pennyfarmer (Even a RINO will chew its foot off when caught in a trap.)
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To: All
As usual in the daily barrage of anti Mormon threads, something was left out.

The Associated Press
Published: 12/08/11

BOISE, Idaho — A spokesman for Brigham Young University-Idaho says a campus department crossed the line when banning students from wearing skinny jeans while attempting to carry out the Mormon school's dress code.
Spokesman Andy Cargal says at least one student was turned away from the university's testing center because their pants were deemed too tight.
Cargal says university policy does prohibit students from wearing form-fitting clothing, which is in line with the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But the school doesn't have a rule explicitly banning “skinny jeans,” with their ultra-slim silhouette.
The university in Rexburg started to receive student complaints last week about a sign posted at the testing center prohibiting skinny jeans. Cargal says university administrators contacted the department and the sign was taken down.

24 posted on 12/11/2011 2:18:19 PM PST by Ripliancum (Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you. -Eph. 4:31)
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To: Colofornian
Good. I'm a college and student and the fashion you see are aberrant.

The "skinny jeans" are pretty bad, especially when guys wear them!

25 posted on 12/11/2011 2:23:28 PM PST by NakedRampage (Puttin' the "stud" in Bible study)
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To: Colofornian

The Russian Orthodox Church where my wife and I sometimes go (neither of us is Russian, but she’s an Orthodox, and that’s the only church around us) discourages wearing jeans to church.


26 posted on 12/11/2011 2:23:53 PM PST by paudio (0bama is like a bad mechanic who couldn't fix your car - he just makes it worse. Get somebody else!)
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To: paudio
The Russian Orthodox Church where my wife and I sometimes go (neither of us is Russian, but she’s an Orthodox, and that’s the only church around us) discourages wearing jeans to church.

Listen. I'll all for informal discouragement of lots of things...including some wardrobe choices.

Big difference 'tween informal discouragement and outright legalistic bans announced. Once you start naming wardrobe choices in official bans, there's nowhere to easily draw a line. And then it gets constantly updated according to the O.W.P.C. (Official Wardrobe Police Committee)

C'mon. These are religious adults.

27 posted on 12/11/2011 2:35:29 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Travis McGee

Gulp!

uhhhhh...nuthing.


28 posted on 12/11/2011 2:38:35 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: hinckley buzzard; vladimir998
But we have some moral degenerates here masquerading as conservatives.

Why? Because we're not as pharisaically legalistic as you?

(Remember. Jesus told the Pharisees they were not "legitimate" children of God in John 8. Religious legalists masquerade as God's people. And hey. The Pharisees, I'm sure were pretty "conservative" wardrobe-wise. To you, they would be "model religionists.")

29 posted on 12/11/2011 2:38:59 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: vladimir998
I bet most Mormon congregations have a written or strongly recognized but unwritten dress code.

A written dress code? Where? What does it say?

If it's unwritten. So what? An unwritten policy can't be legalistically forced. See my post #27 where I said informal discouragements are fine on LOTS of things; including wardrobe choices.

30 posted on 12/11/2011 2:43:07 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

IMO, the difference is whether it’s enforced or not. In terms of church or college, would they send people home if they ‘violate’ the rules?


31 posted on 12/11/2011 2:44:53 PM PST by paudio (0bama is like a bad mechanic who couldn't fix your car - he just makes it worse. Get somebody else!)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Ripliancum
No one is “forced” to do anything in my Church. What in the world are you talking about? Haven’t you ever heard of free agency?

Sorry. Per the Lds "Church Handbook of Instructions" if you wear your own self-produced temple garments or temple ceremonial clothing into the temple, you are breaking the Mormon gods' policies. No "Free agency" garments allowed.

32 posted on 12/11/2011 2:45:54 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian

nothing new except the mormon angle.

Teachers used to complain about girls wearing jeans that looked like they were spray painted on 52 years ago!


33 posted on 12/11/2011 2:55:53 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: hinckley buzzard
I was at the Mall today, for the first time in a number of years. I didn't see "skinny jeans" as far as I know but I saw a number of girls wearing leggings that outlined their butt-cracks and genital areas quite nicely

Are you in your 30s? 40s? 50s? Married? Then what are you doing tracking "a number of girls" per certain areas of their bodies? Have trouble much with seeing people above the belt? Have trouble much treating girls the way you would want your daughter(s) treated by men?

Gotta wonder if Santa Claus knows about your "naughty" eyes as it relates to your "takeaways" as to how you sum up teen girls these days. God? (We already know He knows)

34 posted on 12/11/2011 5:02:06 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian
Skinny jeans?

Well, if you try to put 10 pounds of s**t in a five pound bag you would look like some of those fatgirls squeezed into skinny jeans.
It's my contention that there were just one too many fatgirls who did this and paraded in front of the WRONG people, that is, people with ANY sense of taste.

If it were really a problem with their faith, this wouldda happened MONTHS/YEARS ago.
FATGIRLS running amok. They HAD to have been a really BIGFATSALE on skinny jeans at the local Target/that kind of store. !!!! There oughtta be a law: NO FATGIRLS in skinny jeans! There oughtta bwe a law!

35 posted on 12/11/2011 5:46:39 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Teachers used to complain about girls wearing jeans that looked like they were spray painted on 52 years ago

Girls PROBABLY have been trying to show too much of their bodies to guys since the beginning of the human race. Girls did/do/will ALWAYS do this because they are young and s-t-u-p-i-d. They try to attract the guys who are just at young and s-t-u-p-i-d.

That's what DADs are for, to make sure that their teenage daughters are dressed to please NO ONE but dad. He's GOTTA be the Hammer. Girls without dads are DOOMED.
Okay, that's an exaggeration...but not much.

36 posted on 12/11/2011 5:53:01 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: Saundra Duffy

“Thank you for post #4. Good for you and good for BYU and the Mormons. Why would anyone be against this?”

Yea! ANYWAY!

If the young adults have been raised to never think for themselves,
but to accept whatever the cult says is true, then why should this
be any exception!

Especially those young women, who are groomed to breed here to
prepare for a goddess future that involves being pregnant eternally
to populate her god-husband’s new planet. Why should they have any
independent experience in decision-making. That would ruin the
whole indoctrination!

I agree with Saundra. Why would anyone be against this?


37 posted on 12/11/2011 5:55:09 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (You know, 99.99999965% of the lawyers give all of them a bad name)
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To: Saundra Duffy

You are required to meet certain requirements in order to obtain a TR

How well do your high priests treat long haired men wearing shirts without ties in you sacramental meetings.


38 posted on 12/11/2011 6:09:56 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: vladimir998
I bet most Mormon congregations have a written or strongly recognized but unwritten dress code.

I think what is being lost here Vlad is that it goes beyond "just a dress code" and into part of the legalistic requirements for exaltaton. President Spencer W. Kimball stated, "I am positive that personal grooming and cleanliness, as well as the clothes we wear, can be tremendous factors in the standards we set and follow on the pathway to immortality and eternal life"

Secondly, the 'dress code' is manipulated as a tool of member control. Consider - Jesus wouldn't be allowed to even serve the mormon version of communion in today's mormon services - because of his grooming.

39 posted on 12/11/2011 6:30:37 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Colofornian; Ripliancum

If they are raised in such good Mormon homes and follow the Mormon church like their parents have raised them, why would the university in Rexburg put the sign up and then remove it, due to protest?

You’d think that every good Mormon child that is sent off to school by Mormon Mom and Mormon Dad would never even consider doing anything that wasn’t wholesome and delightful in the eyes of the prophet. The sign would be unnecessary, because there wouldn’t be any skinny jeans on campus. And even if the sign did go up, it would have stayed up, no words of protest would have arisen and the good Mormon children would have formed a circle and clasped hands around it, singing the praises of modesty and legalism, in Joseph Smith’s exalted name.


40 posted on 12/11/2011 6:31:44 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife ("Real solidarity means coming together for the common good."-Sarah Palin)
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To: Colofornian
Good for them! Skinny jeans are proof you're not wearing Mormon underwear. With the MU, you gotta wear these!


41 posted on 12/11/2011 6:35:43 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Don Carlos, Class of ‘59 (Whoop, Whoop)


42 posted on 12/11/2011 6:40:20 PM PST by Don Carlos (01/20/2009 - Begin the Obama Interregnum)
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To: Ripliancum; All
As usual in the daily barrage of anti Mormon threads, something was left out.

As usual with MoPologist Ripliancum, who implies the account ends with that sign coming down...:
The university in Rexburg started to receive student complaints last week about a sign posted at the testing center prohibiting skinny jeans. Cargal says university administrators contacted the department and the sign was taken down.

...What Ripliancum fails to mention, is that
...(a) Another sign replaced the one taken down...yes, the part about "please go home" was removed from the secondary signage, but that didn't help the original student banned from the testing center, now did it?
...(b)The application of the policy led to a REAL student -- not one conjured up by "anti Mormons" -- being banned from the BYU testing center: "...the male employee refused to let her in" -- referencing senior psych major Rachel Vermillion, who they banned from the testing center but did not kick her off campus. See: Provo Herald, Dec. 8 article found at: http://www.heraldextra.com for quotes above.

If what she was wearing wasn't appropriate for one BYU building, why would it be suddenly "OK" elsewhere? (IOW, if what she wore was so "offensive," then it seems to me that they could have temporarily suspended her or kick her off campus...No mention of such actions are mentioned anywhere)

If one student can be banned, why not more?

Was there any apology from the university for banning one of its students? No. Therefore, BYU has officially sanctioned such a banning.

43 posted on 12/11/2011 6:57:23 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: Colofornian
Photobucket
44 posted on 12/11/2011 7:02:06 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: No Socialist; Colofornian

A modest dress code is fine, but BYU consistently goes overboard. When I was there, my roommate was sent home her first day at BYU because her shorts came just above (less than 1/2 inch) her knee.

If it was only about modesty that would be one thing, however, having been there, it is just another way of control.

BTW, when I was there, you could have your ears pierced more than one time (mine are pierced twice), that has since changed.


45 posted on 12/11/2011 7:09:48 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: vladimir998; Colofornian

Isn’t this just about modesty?

- - - - -
Having attended BYU for over 2 years, no it isn’t, it is more about control.


46 posted on 12/11/2011 7:12:28 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Saundra Duffy; Colofornian

No one is “forced” to do anything in my Church. What in the world are you talking about? Haven’t you ever heard of free agency?

- - - - -
That is absolute BARBARA STRIESAND! There is constant peer pressure, expectations and threats if a person fails to conform to the LDS demands, even at the smallest level.


47 posted on 12/11/2011 7:15:04 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: Colofornian; vladimir998

Why not force Mormon adults to adhere to comprehensive wardrobe policies where they meet for worship?

- - - - - -
They do. No pants for women (skirts only to the knee minimum), sleeves must be at least ‘garment length’, men are to wear dress shirts and ties, no ‘loud clothing’, in my ward, women were to wear pantyhose and closed toe shoes, etc...


48 posted on 12/11/2011 7:17:40 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see".)
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To: reaganaut; vladimir998
They do. No pants for women (skirts only to the knee minimum), sleeves must be at least ‘garment length’, men are to wear dress shirts and ties, no ‘loud clothing’, in my ward, women were to wear pantyhose and closed toe shoes, etc...

God forbid a homeless woman stumbled into their place of worship..."no room" for them in the "Mormon Formal 'Inn.'"

"But, hey, you can worship out in 'Smithmas Vermont Nativity' scene with the animals out back."

49 posted on 12/11/2011 7:29:22 PM PST by Colofornian (JoePologists: Those who defend the personality cults of Joe Smith and Joe Paterno)
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To: reaganaut
closed toe shoes,

Heaven help us if some toes get exposed.

50 posted on 12/11/2011 7:34:01 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


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